India in South Africa

wfdu_ben91 said:
I don't see how Dravid opening would be a risk. His got a great techinque and has got all of the credentials to be one of the best openers in the world.

He gets the more control as no3 or no4! This was said by Dravid itself in one of the interviews.

Also Dravid has been already tried as opener.. it doesnt seem to work that well... There was one record partnership with Sehwag but apart from that, his opening approach was uncomfortable!
 
Though this opening partnership has failed a lot, I still think that Jaffer-Sehwag is the best opening pair India have for Tests! Its the ideal combination of attack & defence, & then we have the ever-reliable Wall at 3 & then Sachin! So, we do have a very nice top order! :)
 
Dravid

Code:
Opening                8   13   2   369 128* 103   31   33.54   2   0   0
3rd position          79  128  15  6851 270  233  222   60.62  17  34   6
4th position          12   17   2   901 146  118   86   60.06   2   6   0
5th position           8    8   1   269 144*  53   27   38.42   1   1   0
6th position           6    8   2   413 180   81   68*  68.83   1   2   0
7th position           4    4   0   279  95   84   56   69.75   0   3   0

Ganguly

Code:
Opening                1    1   0    11  11    -    -   11.00   0   0   0
3rd position          11   17   1   739 136  136  131   46.18   3   2   2
4th position          10   14   2   721 173  101*  98*  60.08   2   3   0
5th position          49   72   6  2398 144  128  125   36.33   4  12   3
6th position          27   36   4  1364 147  109  100*  42.62   3   9   3
7th position           2    2   0    64  47   17    -   32.00   0   0   0

Tendulkar

Code:
Opening                1    1   0    15  15    -    -   15.00   0   0   0
4th position         110  170  19  8582 248* 241* 217   56.83  30  32   9
5th position          16   19   0  1082 169  148  113   56.94   3   5   2
6th position          13   19   3   731 148* 119*  88   45.68   2   4   1
7th position           3    4   0   117  41   40   21   29.25   0   0   0

Laxman

Code:
Opening               15   25   1   685 167   95   67   28.54   1   4   3
3rd position          17   27   1  1253 281  104  100   48.19   3   6   2
4th position           3    3   1   172 140   24*   8   86.00   1   0   0
5th position          14   21   3   822 178  104*  79*  45.66   2   5   1
6th position          33   44   4  1749 154* 148  130   43.72   3  11   3
7th position           5    5   3   118  43*  35*  28   59.00   0   0   0
8th position           1    1   1     0   0*   -    -     -     0   0   0

Dhoni

Code:
5th position           2    2   0    36  20   16    -   18.00   0   0   0
6th position           3    3   0   228 148   64   16   76.00   1   1   0
7th position          10   15   0   305  69   49   30   20.33   0   1   0
8th position           2    2   1    56  51*   5    -   56.00   0   1   0

Sehwag

Code:
Opening               45   74   3  3764 309  254  201   53.01  11  10   7
3rd position           1    1   0     5   5    -    -    5.00   0   0   0
6th position           2    3   0   210 105   74   31   70.00   1   1   0
7th position           5    5   0   124  66   25   20   24.80   0   1   1

So from this we can conclude that India's best order according to averages in order priority is:

Sehwag: 53.01
Jaffer: 32.00*
Dravid: 60.62
Laxman: 86.00
Tendulkar: 56.84
Dhoni: 76.00
Ganguly: 32.00

Hmm...interesting
 
Meh, I still don't buy into this 'taking the shine off the ball' and 'quick start' with Sehwag. Dravid doesn't have to change his approach at all to open the batting, his already got the approach for an opening batsman. Sehwag's just going to keep going after it and it's just going to ruin his career. Dravid and Tendulkar have the talent. But for me they have to really stand up and show some responsibility.
 
But where else can Sehwag bat, according to the averages he is best opening (or at 6 but everyone seems to play well there).
 
wfdu_ben91 said:
Meh, I still don't buy into this 'taking the shine off the ball' and 'quick start' with Sehwag. Dravid doesn't have to change his approach at all to open the batting, his already got the approach for an opening batsman. Sehwag's just going to keep going after it and it's just going to ruin his career. Dravid and Tendulkar have the talent. But for me they have to really stand up and show some responsibility.



Ben, if i wud have been in ur place, i wud simply ask in this way, Sehwag getting out quicky making Dravid a virtual opener... So why can't he become a real opener ? ;) :p

But still, no one knows when Sehwag will fire.... It was like active volcano before now its like extinct volcano... everyone waiting for its eruption :), where eruption is needed in the start itself to panic the bowlers early rather than doing it after they(bowlers) make us panic! This is y, Sehwag is there in opening slot but his failure in tests is just a bad time!

manee said:
Sehwag: 53.01
Jaffer: 32.00*
Dravid: 60.62
Laxman: 86.00
Tendulkar: 56.84
Dhoni: 76.00
Ganguly: 32.00

Hmm...interesting

actually very interesting mate with Dhoni there:) But i wud always prefer this lineup though,

1)Sehwag
2)Jaffer/ Pathan ( atleast for one series he can be given chance provided he gets his bowling right )
3)Dravid
4)Sachin
5)Laxman
6)Sourav
7)Dhoni

its always good to see Dhoni coming down to get the fast crucial runs which wud be handy especially when team is already with a big score and about to declare...

Also, its becos of Dhoni who is the hard hitter of the ball, its good for Sehwag to stay in the top! 1,4 and 7 are hard hitters of the balls infact, which is in correct proportion i guess. I count Tendulkar becos, he also have the ability to score runs quickly as well as stay for long time!
 
If you give priority to Ganguly and put him 4, the averages support it. However it is Dhoni whose average does not support the move.
 
Interesting but you think India would have won this game if the players were batting in slightly different batting position?

Ganguly at no.4 would definately do well, and struggle at no.6?

I think in the end it all comes done to application, and not for the first time the Indians lacked it big time. I mean Jaffer's shot was exactly what you SHOULD NOT be doing under the circumstances.

Credit to South Africa and Ntini for trying and trying and trying....and getting there in the end.
 
India need to apply themselves like Dhoni did; playing yourself in and working from there; he got out to a silly shot, but still made a good innings.
 
SA deserved to win this game.
I`d have felt bad for them if they`d have lost out due to bad light.

Mayber, it all augurs well for a cracking New Year`s test match.
 
Well deserved victory for South Africa. Opens up the series now. India will be the underdogs at Cape Town.

First of all, something needs to be done with Sehwag. I boldly say that he has to be dropped for Cape Town and Gautham Gambhir should be taken in. Yes, Gambhir cant do any worse than Sehwag and since Jaffer looked good for his 26 and 28 in this test, he can be retained. Sehwag surely needs to be shown the door.

Dravid was plain unlucky in this test. Had he got the benefit of the doubt, India could have done much better with Dravid batting for more time. Sachin did well in the first innings, Laxman did well in the first innings, Ganguly looked tentative in the second but still got some runs due to his attacking approach, Dhoni got runs in both innings. I feel Sehwag needs to be replaced with Gambhir and VRV should be replaced by Munaf, at Cape Town.

I seriously dont want 5 bowlers at Cape Town. Or if its going to be a turning wicket at Cape Town, then Harbhajan Singh should be in for VRV Singh.

It promises to be a cracking contest, but India's history of screwing it up will come to the fore again. I am not watching the match this time. Will only follow the scores (coz college starts & also I know India are prone to screwing it up)
 
Why was VRV Singh playing for India...? He was usesless in the last test and the same in this test...
 
I agree. I can't believe how India can leave Harbhajan out. He's a class bowler and would probably play in any team apart from maybe Srilanka and Australia with Warne. He is a match winner with the ball and pretty handy with the bat. VRV or Munaf Patel won't do better. Maybe Munaf, but I still think that Harbhajan and Kumble should play because they're awesome together.
 
Ok, let me make this clear.
South Africa deserved a tight fought draw, where they could nearly win but didn't. This is because of their terrible start but excellent fightback.
India deserved a draw where they clung on and fought back just towards the end to hold on. This is because of their brilliant start. but absolutely appalling batting and bowling to Pollock and the tail after that.
Should have been, in a county match, 11 points to South Africa and like 7 to India for the draw.

The only way India could have lost was by poor cricket. If they played crap, then they deserved to lose.
And they did.
This will flatter South Africa, who were neither brilliant or outstanding or unplayable. They fought hard and played sensible cricket, and got a bit fo luck.
India were poor, and showed no fight until Sreesanth -who deserved a win after all his work in the entire match- and Zaheer overall and Kumble with the ball (His batting has been poor). These 3 deserve the win, the others don't. You could say VRV might for all his work, but he didn't have the results to show for it and barely troubled the bats, losing his confidence after having a few missed chances. India played poor cricket, poor shots at the wrong time, and hence deserved what bad luck they got. Apart for Dravid in the second innings. Nothing wrong with his shot, just a good ball and he played it about as well as anyone, making sure he didn't touch it. That was just crap - umpiring standards around the world just seems to be declining.

All this stuff about the 'New India' being a fighting team with spirit who won't go down quiet, seems like BS to me. Nothing, absolutely nothing, I have seen in the past year or so leads me to believe that. There are only 5 fighters in this team -Sreesanth, Kumble, Zaheer (And even these two were poor on occassions, Zaheer with ball at times, though he could be forgiven as he was tired, and Kumble with the bat, although it isn't his job to score runs), Dravid (Extremely hard done twice, although on the first occassion, it was a poor shot and a marginal decision, so you can let that slide) and Dada. And even Dada seemed meek today. He hasn't rectified his problems with the short ball, it seems that six off Ntini is a fluke. OK, granted, the first time he didn't see it. I sympathise with him, crap like that happens time to time and there is not much one can do. But the second, poor. He is aggressive, and that's the way he plays. He won't be meek and humble with the bowlers, and would like to teach them a thing or two. I just hope he controls himself a bit and does a SS, get a chance, take it, and rub it in their face later to releave all that aggression and get fined 30% of his fees :p
Jaffer - Poor shots, just needs to work and apply. I feel that big score is around the corner as long as he has someone cool and calming around him, constantly reminding him to look out and be careful and to stay cool.
Viru - Drop him, for heaven's sake drop him. Uppercut to keeper, slash to slip, I don't think he has gotten out any other way this entire year. I've rated his talent highly, and he can be good, but his form is wretched. In the past, you look at his good scores, the 190 in Australia, 100 in Old Trafford. He actually moved his feet then, and didn't bring out that slash till he was in. He only killed bowlers from the start on batting tracks, but he knew how to handle bowler friendly tracks. And he even played straight on occassions, not just square of the wicket. He just seems lost now, let him go to England, play county cricket on bowling wickets, and find his form. Worked well with Dada (I think) and Zaheer.
VVS - He has been batting well, I'll give him 8/10. But his situation reading skills and use of experience is a flat out 0. Poor, poor, poor. He seems to be batting in his own world. And I like that, that's how he should be. But not anymore. He used to be that luxury batsman, the one who could score runs at will. Now, he is a crucial member, and he needs to act the role. First example I saw (I didn't watch him bat much on the first test) was when he took a single of the first ball of the over to get his fifty, exposing VRV to five balls, where he got out. In a match where runs and time were crucial, he could have held strike for longer. If he was clever, he could have added another 15-20 crucial runs and have batted for another half an hour or so, getting crucial runs and eating up time. But no. He also scored slow too with SS and Zaheer. This innings, well, just didn't perform.
Dhoni - I don't think he belongs in the test team. He is an easy target. Sure, he got 47 runs. But it is his style of play. In an attacking field, anyone can get runs. But they are worthless when time is needed. The skipper can just tell his bowlers to keep in on the stumps, and then pitch one up for the drive, and he'll fall for the trap. Sure, he'll get a few fours now and then throughout and innings, but he doesn't look like he will last out the innings and score a large ton and stuff. It's poor. It's good for ODI where runs are needed, but he just doesn't seem like the test-style, crucial, critical situations kinda guy. His keeping has improved though, props to him, it's been good.
Sachin - I'm dissapointed. He isn't past it, but just seems not able to get big scores now. Age is catching up, the way he looks when he bats, his face, it looks like scoring runs is more of an effort. Maybe he needs a rest, get re-charged? But he looks very fresh in the field. I am confused. Just hope he does well...

If we lost this, we deserved to lose. And we did. South Africa were flattered by a usual meek Indian side. We need another 3 SS's, and we'll be good. Does he have any brothers or friends who play cricket?
 

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