India Team Discussion

[Bevab]

India's World Cup squad: Rohit Sharma (capt), Shubman Gill, Virat Kohli, Shreyas Iyer, KL Rahul (wk), Ishan Kishan (wk), Suryakumar Yadav, Hardik Pandya (vice-capt), Ravindra Jadeja, Kuldeep Yadav, Axar Patel, Mohammed Siraj, Mohammed Shami, Shardul Thakur, Jasprit Bumrah

Red Flags:
Hardik as vice-captain
3 left hand spinners- are we seriously going in without Ashwin /Bishnoi? It is a very one dimensional attack
No Arshdeep

Barring those two odd games he played some time in South Africa last year (which I presume was because Jadeja was injured along with Axar), Ashwin hasn't played a single ODI since the Champions Trophy in 2017, a tournament that went extinct and has undergone a resurrection since. When on earth did he become a serious contender for a WC squad out of all things when ODIs are his weakest format by far? Bishnoi primarily bowls googlies, I'm pretty sure over sixty to seventy percent of his deliveries are the same and that would mean he does the same thing that Axar and Jadeja do. Kuldeep turns the ball in both directions and also favours googlies which for him would mean turning the ball in a different direction than Jadeja and Axar. Calling the three of them as the same type of spinner or one dimensional is extremely reductive and a surface reading of things.

If Hardik isn't the vice-captain... who should it have been? Since you hate KLR I assume he's a no go. Shreyas just came into the side after a long term injury layoff so no to him too. Jadeja had a crappy stint in the IPL, Kohli would not be accepting it in the first place due to the past and even if he did I don't think you'd want the guy who was the former captain that quit in controversial circumstances to be a point of contention in a high pressure home WC when he's also the best batter on paper in the side. That leaves us with... Bumrah... who you don't think should be in the team in the first place (and the same injury excuse applies to him), Gill is young with minimal experience and Kishan's not even a guaranteed first team player.

Arshdeep has barely played any ODIs, what on earth does he provide other than an elusive left arm angle? That variation is no good if he isn't good enough to bowl ten overs consistently, he hasn't really been impressive since the T20 WC either. Did we watch the same bowler here? There's legitimate complaints you could make of the squad such as SKY's inclusion despite being poor in ODIs and the lack of an alternative attacking spinner to Kuldeep (which isn't the end of the world either as I don't really rate Chahal) but you're just being contrarian for the sake of it here.

 

[Till Valhalla]

Barring those two odd games he played some time in South Africa last year (which I presume was because Jadeja was injured along with Axar), Ashwin hasn't played a single ODI since the Champions Trophy in 2017, a tournament that went extinct and has undergone a resurrection since. When on earth did he become a serious contender for a WC squad out of all things when ODIs are his weakest format by far? Bishnoi primarily bowls googlies, I'm pretty sure over sixty to seventy percent of his deliveries are the same and that would mean he does the same thing that Axar and Jadeja do. Kuldeep turns the ball in both directions and also favours googlies which for him would mean turning the ball in a different direction than Jadeja and Axar. Calling the three of them as the same type of spinner or one dimensional is extremely reductive and a surface reading of things.

If Hardik isn't the vice-captain... who should it have been? Since you hate KLR I assume he's a no go. Shreyas just came into the side after a long term injury layoff so no to him too. Jadeja had a crappy stint in the IPL, Kohli would not be accepting it in the first place due to the past and even if he did I don't think you'd want the guy who was the former captain that quit in controversial circumstances to be a point of contention in a high pressure home WC when he's also the best batter on paper in the side. That leaves us with... Bumrah... who you don't think should be in the team in the first place (and the same injury excuse applies to him), Gill is young with minimal experience and Kishan's not even a guaranteed first team player.

Arshdeep has barely played any ODIs, what on earth does he provide other than an elusive left arm angle? That variation is no good if he isn't good enough to bowl ten overs consistently, he hasn't really been impressive since the T20 WC either. Did we watch the same bowler here? There's legitimate complaints you could make of the squad such as SKY's inclusion despite being poor in ODIs and the lack of an alternative attacking spinner to Kuldeep (which isn't the end of the world either as I don't really rate Chahal) but you're just being contrarian for the sake of it here.

I am biased but I would have liked Tilak Verma in the squad.

 

[pillowprocter]

Kuldeep turns the ball in both directions and also favours googlies which for him would mean turning the ball in a different direction than Jadeja and Axar.

Well actually Kuldeep's googlies turn the same way as Jadeja and Axar's stock delivery (away from the right handed batsman). It's his legbreak that turns the other way).

 

[Bevab]

Well actually Kuldeep's googlies turn the same way as Jadeja and Axar's stock delivery (away from the right handed batsman). It's his legbreak that turns the other way).

FFS I've got confused by the whole thinking around with which way which spinner bowls.

I am biased but I would have liked Tilak Verma in the squad.

At least you're admitting the bias, I do think it's too early for him to be in the team and debut in a high pressure home WC without any prior experience. He would also have to wind up playing in the Asian Games quickly and move over to the WC squad as the last addition if he were to be selected assuming India goes all the way in said tournament.

 

[Till Valhalla]

FFS I've got confused by the whole thinking around with which way which spinner bowls.


At least you're admitting the bias, I do think it's too early for him to be in the team and debut in a high pressure home WC without any prior experience. He would also have to wind up playing in the Asian Games quickly and move over to the WC squad as the last addition if he were to be selected assuming India goes all the way in said tournament.

Sometimes you need those early players in big situations.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

As an England fan, I'm very pleased to see Kuldeep in the squad.

 

[Aravind.]

Well actually Kuldeep's googlies turn the same way as Jadeja and Axar's stock delivery (away from the right handed batsman). It's his legbreak that turns the other way).

Exactly Axar the sixer has the bowling avg of above 30, basically we're going with one spinner in home conditions, let's hope kuldeep does the magic and Axar plays well and back the team until it's over.

 

[icyman]

Barring those two odd games he played some time in South Africa last year (which I presume was because Jadeja was injured along with Axar), Ashwin hasn't played a single ODI since the Champions Trophy in 2017, a tournament that went extinct and has undergone a resurrection since. When on earth did he become a serious contender for a WC squad out of all things when ODIs are his weakest format by far? Bishnoi primarily bowls googlies, I'm pretty sure over sixty to seventy percent of his deliveries are the same and that would mean he does the same thing that Axar and Jadeja do. Kuldeep turns the ball in both directions and also favours googlies which for him would mean turning the ball in a different direction than Jadeja and Axar. Calling the three of them as the same type of spinner or one dimensional is extremely reductive and a surface reading of things.

If Hardik isn't the vice-captain... who should it have been? Since you hate KLR I assume he's a no go. Shreyas just came into the side after a long term injury layoff so no to him too. Jadeja had a crappy stint in the IPL, Kohli would not be accepting it in the first place due to the past and even if he did I don't think you'd want the guy who was the former captain that quit in controversial circumstances to be a point of contention in a high pressure home WC when he's also the best batter on paper in the side. That leaves us with... Bumrah... who you don't think should be in the team in the first place (and the same injury excuse applies to him), Gill is young with minimal experience and Kishan's not even a guaranteed first team player.

Arshdeep has barely played any ODIs, what on earth does he provide other than an elusive left arm angle? That variation is no good if he isn't good enough to bowl ten overs consistently, he hasn't really been impressive since the T20 WC either. Did we watch the same bowler here? There's legitimate complaints you could make of the squad such as SKY's inclusion despite being poor in ODIs and the lack of an alternative attacking spinner to Kuldeep (which isn't the end of the world either as I don't really rate Chahal) but you're just being contrarian for the sake of it here.

Just met analysis of the red flags. I'd still stick to my theory of calling 3 left armers as one dimensional. Especially in a country like India you need a bit of variety given that there aren't very many batsmen who can roll their arm over. For this precise reason, I'd have wanted Ashwin and Bishnoi in the team as they could add a bit of variety.

The vice captaincy is an important aspect of the game. We've seen the mockery Hardik is when entrusted with more responsibility. God forbid should anything happen to Rohit, certainly don't want Pandya stepping in. Agreed, we don't have options at the moment, but Pandya isn't one for sure. Having a poor vice-captain has never turned out in a positive manner for India. Tendulkar was named deputy to Dravid in 2007 when he was reluctant,we saw how that ended.

Arshdeep cause we need somewhat of an X Factor. If the theory is that we shouldnt select those who haven't played ODIs over the last year, then KLR and Bumrah should miss out, right?

At least you're admitting the bias, I do think it's too early for him to be in the team and debut in a high pressure home WC without any prior experience. He would also have to wind up playing in the Asian Games quickly and move over to the WC squad as the last addition if he were to be selected assuming India goes all the way in said tournament.

Again, no harm in this. Andy Flower ,Andre Russell, Yusuf Pathan (T20) have made their debuts in a World Cup.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

Absolutely spot on what say @Bevab @icyman @Bigby Wolf ?

Fearless cricket is what we have lacked over all the years of knockout games. Last year in the semi-finals against England was brutal.

 

[pillowprocter]

Absolutely spot on what say @Bevab @icyman @Bigby Wolf ?

Fearless cricket is what we have lacked over all the years of knockout games. Last year in the semi-finals against England was brutal.

As far as I know it's 3 of the last 5

Aus in SA
Aus in WI
Ind in Ind
Aus in Aus
Eng in Eng

 

[Bevab]

Absolutely spot on what say @Bevab @icyman @Bigby Wolf ?

Fearless cricket is what we have lacked over all the years of knockout games. Last year in the semi-finals against England was brutal.

I keep seeing this version of events where India posted a below par total last year in the semis when they didn’t, that score was easily par. That pitch had a good amount of assistance for bowlers and our bowlers completely failed to turn up… which I don’t completely blame them for given it wasn’t a well rounded bowling unit at all. We had no attacking spinner and no good pacer who could threaten the opposition with sheer pace… or even someone who could vary their pace well enough to offer a challenge.

Other than that… it’s hard not to agree. Pressure management has been lacking in this side. As remarked the Dravid-Rohit era was supposed to be one where the team would play aggressive cricket with the bat and they fell short of it at the T20 WC. I don’t think they’ve let up yet in ODIs unless the situation or pitches have forced them to… but it remains to be seen if it will be the case at the main event. Hardik certainly doesn’t seem to believe in the same philosophy though given the team’s been slightly slower in T20Is since the last WC.

We do go into this WC with a better team than the one in 2022. It’s debatable if this team is better overall than the one in 2019 but at the least it is more balanced and expecting an appearance in the final doesn’t seem unrealistic. Anything beyond that may be down to the luck of the day.

 

[icyman]

True! We don't play fearlessly. We have had this template wherein our openers take their time in settling in. This has been prevalent since Rohit started opening in 2013.

The batsmen take their time and tee off at the very end. It helped earlier cause we had some hitters. Now, if we have KL and Virat at the end, the scoring rate doesn't go above a certain level due to their style of play. Hardik is another Afridi and so is Jadeja.

With the likes of England, Australia and others beefing up their middle orders with genuine hitmen, it is a bit tough for India to catch up.

In the KO's we burden ourselves with a pressure that translates into a slower than usual method of play. This is exactly what happened over the last few KOS we have played.

Winning the World Cup is difficult. However, given our team dynamics, doubt whether we'd make the semis itself this time.

 

[icyman]

India's World Cup squad needs a change. SKY needs to be dropped. But, who will replace him?

Do we need another keeper in the squad? As much as I'm inclined towards the inclusion of Sanju, it still doesn't help, as he won't be able to roll his arm over.

Furthermore,Jadeja is in horrific form. I've never looked at him as an ODI all rounder, but I guess it is his bowling that is keeping him in the side.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

India's World Cup squad needs a change. SKY needs to be dropped. But, who will replace him?

Do we need another keeper in the squad? As much as I'm inclined towards the inclusion of Sanju, it still doesn't help, as he won't be able to roll his arm over.

Furthermore,Jadeja is in horrific form. I've never looked at him as an ODI all rounder, but I guess it is his bowling that is keeping him in the side.

Three keepers would be a recipe for success

 

[icyman]

Three keepers would be a recipe for success

They will add a 4th one ,I'm sure.

Btw, seems like Axar Patel is injured and Washi Sundar will be replacing him for the Final.