India Team Discussion

[icyman]

Might be Kohli's final hurrah! I just have a funny feeling

Kind of depends if the selection committee caves into public pressure or not. If India are to win, they need to make tough decisions.

We’ve had thirty four players play a T20I for us since the last WC over the past one year and a month. We’ve still got three more T20Is left to play against Afghanistan next month and unless we forfeit the England tests or call-up players for a T20I series during the IPL… those three games will be the only ones we’ll play before the upcoming WC.

The most notable and obvious thing is this; none of our top three from the last WC have made a single T20I appearance during this period. This includes Kohli, Rahul and Rohit (who I don’t remember being officially replaced as captain). Even the likes of Jadeja and Bumrah have managed to sneak in a couple of games during this period. Shami hasn’t played any game either and the same goes for Ashwin.

In this period we’ve had Gaikwad, Gill, Jaiswal and SKY all score a century. The former two have struck in the mid 140s to high 140s while Jaiswal and SKY have struck close to 160. The least consistent batter in this group is Gill whose average is still a respectable 26. Now I do know that the value of bilateral T20Is is not high in the current scenario due to how much rotation occurs these days but this is still a group with exciting potential that has produced results.

The big problem is that none of the keeper batters have worked out well. All three that we’ve tried average below twenty and have been very inconsistent. This may be KL’s route back and it may also be why there’s rumours of him wanting him to play outside the opener roles because there’s an opportunity there.

Sure we could go back to Rohit and Kohli again but I’m genuinely tired of seeing the same faces turn up and inevitably fail. Even if we exit in the group stages I’d rather watch a new band of cricketers gain experience this time around and they’ve shown that they deserve to play.

Inevitably,they might turn to the tried and tested. I remember mentioning this last year. The team for the WT20 2021 was selected entirely based off reputation. It didn't turn out so well for us then.

That time too, we tried a plethora of players, most of them who had made their mark and we're starting to look like a settled XI. But, we didn't choose them. This time though, I don't think we have a settled core at allm although, if we employ the 2007 formula ,I'd like to see the below side

Shaw (for impact)
Jaiswal
Kishan/ Jitesh
SKY
Pant( if fit)/ Samson
Rinku
Patidar
Dube (assuming Hardik won't be fit)
Bishnoi
Shami
Bumrah
Arshdeep
Iyer
Chahar (if fit)
Kuldeep
Tilak

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

Kind of depends if the selection committee caves into public pressure or not. If India are to win, they need to make tough decisions.

Inevitably,they might turn to the tried and tested. I remember mentioning this last year. The team for the WT20 2021 was selected entirely based off reputation. It didn't turn out so well for us then.

That time too, we tried a plethora of players, most of them who had made their mark and we're starting to look like a settled XI. But, we didn't choose them. This time though, I don't think we have a settled core at allm although, if we employ the 2007 formula ,I'd like to see the below side

Shaw (for impact)
Jaiswal
Kishan/ Jitesh
SKY
Pant( if fit)/ Samson
Rinku
Patidar
Dube (assuming Hardik won't be fit)
Bishnoi
Shami
Bumrah
Arshdeep
Iyer
Chahar (if fit)
Kuldeep
Tilak

I like the look of that team but Shaw is not needed. Shaw has shown no signs that he is in great form or shape. I would take Kohli because he is in great touch. If he has a solid IPL there is no reason not to take him. Also same with Rohit, if he has a great IPL, captain or not, I see no reason he should not be in the 15. The only thing with Rohit is he has no motivation left and has been drained out post WC.

The pitches in US and West Indies will be flat and batsman friendly, we would need SKY,Pant, Samson, RInku to hit big in the later overs.

Also on a side note playing cricket in June in NY especially the big match India, Pakistan there is a lot of possibility of it being rained out.

 

[Viper.]

Kind of depends if the selection committee caves into public pressure or not. If India are to win, they need to make tough decisions.

Inevitably,they might turn to the tried and tested. I remember mentioning this last year. The team for the WT20 2021 was selected entirely based off reputation. It didn't turn out so well for us then.

That time too, we tried a plethora of players, most of them who had made their mark and we're starting to look like a settled XI. But, we didn't choose them. This time though, I don't think we have a settled core at allm although, if we employ the 2007 formula ,I'd like to see the below side

Shaw (for impact)
Jaiswal
Kishan/ Jitesh
SKY
Pant( if fit)/ Samson
Rinku
Patidar
Dube (assuming Hardik won't be fit)
Bishnoi
Shami
Bumrah
Arshdeep
Iyer
Chahar (if fit)
Kuldeep
Tilak

Rutu over Shaw obviously, the side would look like this-

Gaikwad
Yashasvi
Surya
Tilak
Hardik
Rinku
Jitesh(wk)
Bishnoi
Bumrah
Arshdeep
Shami/Whoever as pacer


Ishan/Sanju, Dube, Kuldeep and one more pacer as backup.

Could honestly risk going with Hardik as 5th bowler if Tilak and Jaiswal stand up as part timers. This enables us to play both Rinku and Tilak in the side (who both deserve to) while also playing a keeper. The keeper conundrum will really haunt India as Jitesh is not proven enough and Ishan can't fit in that top order over those others. But hopefully if Hardik/other bowler fail, Tilak and Jaiswal can both at least bowl 2 overs , since its T20I they wont have to bowl much anyway

All this while assuming Pant is still unfit though. If he isn't, he jumps straight into the XI over Jitesh.

Edit: forgot Gill. But he should focus on the other 2 formats more imo. If he doesn't end up with a great IPL he's probably not gonna make it.

 

[Bigby Wolf]

 

[Bigby Wolf]

 

[icyman]

As an Indian fan, what are you guys looking forth to in 2024? Personally, I have lost hope after 12 years of bein perennial bridesmaids. Don't expect the narrative to be any different in USA. I find myself a tad disinterested in the game, perhaps owing to the amount being played + frequent chopping/changing of the teams. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Bevab]

As an Indian fan, what are you guys looking forth to in 2024? Personally, I have lost hope after 12 years of bein perennial bridesmaids. Don't expect the narrative to be any different in USA. I find myself a tad disinterested in the game, perhaps owing to the amount being played + frequent chopping/changing of the teams. What are your thoughts on this?

Quite interested in seeing how Bazball works in India with how dusty they make the pitches.

I’d also be looking forward to the WC if they do move on from the old guard.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

As an Indian fan, what are you guys looking forth to in 2024? Personally, I have lost hope after 12 years of bein perennial bridesmaids. Don't expect the narrative to be any different in USA. I find myself a tad disinterested in the game, perhaps owing to the amount being played + frequent chopping/changing of the teams. What are your thoughts on this?

I feel you 100%. This world cup loss will stay forever more then any other losses we have seen and we have seen so many right? Champions Trophy, 2015 semi final, 2019 semi final, 2 WTC finals, 2022 T20 semi finals, etc. Also the reason is not because it was at home, the reason is because we absolutely annihilated everyone. This one seems very personal loss.

What will happen of Indian cricket is pre-Kohli era. We will absolutely dominate and keep dominating the bi-laterals, keep losing at the biggest stage, keep losing away, may be dominate at home.

Some important questions to answer and this is solely based on Test matches. Bumrah, Shami, Siraj. Who else? I have 0 faith in PRasidh. He is a very mediocre bowler. Avesh I hope gets a chance to see how he is. Kohli got them young and raw will Sharma do that?

Batsman? Leave Kohli and Sharma, what is our XI? Who constitutes our middle order? Gill has been mediocre since the Aussies tests. Spinners? Who are our spinners or that one spinner like Bhajji or Kumble were overseas?

T20 I am not worries about because that is such a short format anyone can fit in and get out. ODI's I dont care anymore.

 

[Bigby Wolf]

 

[Till Valhalla]

Bring him to Squad India BCCI!

 

[icyman]

I dont understand the clamour from 'experts' such as Badrinath,, Deep Dasgupta about Kohli being captain instead of Rohit. It has simply been one loss the team didnt turn up at all. Where were the so called experts when KLR fantastically screwed his 1st Test in charge in SA?

Some important questions to answer and this is solely based on Test matches. Bumrah, Shami, Siraj. Who else? I have 0 faith in PRasidh. He is a very mediocre bowler. Avesh I hope gets a chance to see how he is. Kohli got them young and raw will Sharma do that?

I think it was less to do with Kohli and more to do with Bharat Arun being in think tank. From my viewing of Indian cricket in the last decade, I have noted these pointers. Feel free to disagree with them:

• MSD was a good ODI/T20 captain and the thing that worked for him was the fact that the BCCI Prez was behind him at all times. This meant, he not only got the team he wanted, but he also got the selection committee that would take those decisions for him.
• Kohli-Shastri combine was an unnaturally aggressive one. The aggression was apparent mostly on their faces, but that didn't really translate into many results for the team in ICC events. I feel, without the aggression too, India would have been able to dominate the formats, as they did.
• Rohit- got captaincy a tad late should have been given the same a few years ago, but only for the limited overs legs.
• Post Kohli, either Rahane or Ashwin should have been captain. Focus at the moment, shouldnt be on winning the WT- rather focus on building a strong core for the future.
• India needs a foreign coach. Indian coaches cannot take this team to the next level. Kanitkar, Mhambrey, Kotak, might be good at the foundation levels, but not beyond that.

Coming to the main Q- what after the current crop- it is unfortunate that we havent identified persons to take over. Umran was being hyped, but is no where in the picture. Mukesh- I dont think he has it in him(see him more like a VRV Singh sorta person)

Avesh, perennially injured Nagarkoti should have been some options the team ought to have managed well, but have not been given their dues. What also surprises me is the treatment of T Natarajan (been very poor)

Controversial opinions:

• After Kohli's stepping down, Shreyas should have been the prime candidate for captaincy, but got injured at that very moment.
• R Jadeja is grossly over-hyper by every management

Batsman? Leave Kohli and Sharma, what is our XI? Who constitutes our middle order? Gill has been mediocre since the Aussies tests. Spinners? Who are our spinners or that one spinner like Bhajji or Kumble were overseas?

As much as I admire Rohit and his captaincy, he isnt the guy for Test maches- neither on the batting front, nor on the captaincy front. Gavaskar and Harbajan did question the rationale behind leaving out Pujara and Rahane after having them back for the last series. India's next batting seems in doldrums tbh- Jaiswal has made a mark for himself, but the upcoming series vs England will show what he really is capable of. Time might be ripe to blood in Dhull, Easwaran, Panchal as well. I agree with Gill. Saw a statistic somewhere that stated that R Ashwin had more runs than Gill in the first 20 Test innings they played.

Spinners-check my point on Jadeja- the continued persistence with someone who is essentially a less than bits-and-pieces player fascinates me till date. Jadeja might have played 1-2 good innings, but his bowling has been a source of worry. On pitches that offer little, he is absolutely poor-again, this is across formats. One simply has to look back at the World Cup final to check this.

At this very moment, fans of Indian cricket too, aren't aware of 4-5 spin options who can be considered. At least, in the past, we had a few running options. The treatment meted out to Washington Sundar is worthy of an Emmy for the most evil role ever. Bishnoi, is another example of someone who can very well go down the drain, just like Chahal did.

 

[Bevab]

Are people really collectively forgetting that we have the only spinner not named Lyon to take a fifer in the last decade in Australia not even in the current test squad?

 

[Bevab]

I’m just going to re-quote my own post from the last time the topic was discussed. I don’t think it’s been a week since I posted it.

Not sure why you're calling Mukesh and Avesh good limited overs bowlers... this was the first year in which Mukesh even played in the IPL. Avesh has been a better red ball bowler than a white ball bowler for as long as I can remember despite his IPL success... the stats back that up too (he's got a List A average of 37). It's the same story with Mukesh, his white ball averages are above thirty in both formats (they're closer to forty in 50 overs cricket) and this is a guy who only had one-fourth of his T20 games in the IPL. I've followed both of them in Ranji cricket and for India A (Avesh is comparatively worse in the latter) and they're much better with the red ball. If anything I'd argue that we've been guilty of producing pacers who are capable of bowling with rhythm sticking to a consistent length but struggle with variations other than the dreaded knuckle ball and cross seam which is why I fear for our white ball bowling and part of it may be because unlike other country pacers ours don't have to hone their skills in the T20 circuit and so miss out on potentially learning multiple variations to survive there.

We have two states in Bengal and Karnataka who have been recently producing numerous pacers of good quality... Karnataka's produced four pacers that average below twenty-five in FC cricket and Bengal's worst regular pacer is Porel who averages twenty-five... and these are just two states. The problem lies in the step between international and domestic cricket not being done properly since the pandemic due to India A not playing as regularly as before or being managed properly (Dravid's absence is hurting us here). I've not even talked about Mavi who took a six wicket haul in his last FC game in the Duleep Trophy and currently averages below twenty. Most other countries have nowhere near the same level of talent in their domestic system. The problem is picking Lord Thakur over and over again when he wasn't even the best FC pacer by a mile in the system.

We've got plenty of spin depth too, not sure why you're confused over it. Saurabh Kumar had a ten wicket haul in the Irani Cup two months ago, Mulani has been in the top two wicket-takers in the Ranji Trophy over the last two seasons. Suthar's already played a couple of India A games (albeit in List A cricket) and has been reported to be highly talented, Kartikeya's done a great job and I've not even talked about the two international backups we have in Kuldeep and Axar. If we're truly facing an injury crisis to all four of these blokes I'm pretty sure Saxena can do a job in a solitary series even at his age. Yet again the issue is in the pathway between domestic to international cricket... and I'm not sure why you're hitting out at Ashwin and Jadeja when they've mostly been given pitches that are absolutely not conducive to spinners on most SENA tours. Jadeja's role in the last England tour was to be that defensive bowler who held up one end on pitches that had nothing for spinners and he did his job well. He did well enough the last time we toured Australia and Ashwin outbowled Lyon significantly in the same series. The one place you could argue Ashwin failed recently was in South Africa last time and those pitches were barely conducive to spin either, Maharaj bowled half of his overs and averaged twice as badly.



You've missed the point. It's that if Ishant can go from that meme-y bowler to being an integral part of picking up twenty wickets everytime between 2018 to 2021 after just one county stint with one quality coach... then there's a lot more hope for all of the players I've listed above with the right guidance which they'll get somewhere in the system from someone. That is why I'm saying you're overreacting by claiming that India will go back to the dark days of the 90s or 2000s for pacers when that's unlikely to happen again.

 

[Viper.]

As an Indian fan, what are you guys looking forth to in 2024? Personally, I have lost hope after 12 years of bein perennial bridesmaids. Don't expect the narrative to be any different in USA. I find myself a tad disinterested in the game, perhaps owing to the amount being played + frequent chopping/changing of the teams. What are your thoughts on this?

I'm just bored with Indian cricket now tbh and the potential 2024 side does not look that exciting (God knows who the pacers will be) so at least hoping the IPL will help give clarity on that and hope a new team wins IPL. (At least no GT, CSK, MI, KKR) . Internationally and for the T20 WC, Australia and South Africa look far more interesting . But overall excited for a T20 WC with a new format and 20 teams, and in WI conditions, love the vibe there for some reason it gives off summer and beach vibes and the crowds are great there.

 

[Bevab]

Have to agree on the pacers bit since I have no idea who will carry the burden in white ball cricket if Bumrah doesn’t turn up. Shami in T20s is always a bit of a risky ploy and the same goes for Siraj. We need another pacer who can bowl above 140+ consistently.