MightyKing
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What the hell is India doing? Getting smashed against Pakistan.
India Team Discussion
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LiveLoveABD
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zwarrior
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It's high time we drop Ashwin from LO. Need someone like kuldeep yadav. Hope he gets picked for WI matches.
is it on youtube?
LiveLoveABD
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Jadeja as well.
zwarrior
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Yup. Bring in chahl and kuldeep yadav. But obviously, they won't do that !
zwarrior
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Axar is similar to jadeja in bowling wise.[DOUBLEPOST=1497803915][/DOUBLEPOST]About the tournament, I am happy about Dhawan and Pandya's efforts. I had doubted both of them, but they were good. Grabbed the opportunity well. Pandya should ne prepared for the world cup now. He is the man for us. His bowling needs lot of improvement. I hope the team management realize this and back him well. If his bowling improves, we have our own Ben Stokes.
Now, for heavens sake, please let go of jadeja and Ashwin. They are liability in LO.
zwarrior
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And if Dhawan continues his form along with Sharma, I want to see Rahul in #4 place. Remember the T20 in US and ipl last year. He was amazing in that position. So, if Dhawan and Sharma are in good form, let Rahul bat at #4 and prepare Pant for the backup opener slot.
S
Satan666
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Live Cricket Score: India vs Pakistan, ICC Champions Trophy 2017 Final | Cricbuzz.com
Pak defeats India by 180 runs to take the ICC cup 2017
Pak defeats India by 180 runs to take the ICC cup 2017
Ahmad94
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I have never met a less patriotic Indian cricket fan than you!
OK, time for the post-mortem of India's efforts this tournament. In a way, it's good that India did not win this tournament because if they did, the developing cracks would have been hidden and could have manifested worser in 2019. This final defeat is going to help Indian cricket in the near long run and I'm confident about it.
Sorry for the long post, I prefer putting my thoughts together at once...
Top Order: Rohit Sharma, Shikhar Dhawan, Ajinkya Rahane, Virat Kohli
Numbers say that the top order had an extraordinary tournament. Also the top order ensured that the middle and lower order rarely got a chance to bat. But if you look deep inside, the strike rate of the top order in most matches were simply so underwhelming. It went on to hurt us against Sri Lanka, where we set up an underwhelming total (321) which was eventually chased down in 48 or so overs. Rohit and Dhawan have batted this tournament with a set template, sedate at the start, keep wickets in hand without taking any risks whatsoever, and then explode. This tactic needs scrapping immediately. You have 10 overs of Power Play at the start of the innings. By not taking any risks whatsoever and scoring at an average of 4.8 runs per over in that 10 overs (that's what India average in the first 10 overs in recent times), you are basically wasting the opportunity of adding 20-30 runs extra to your total. And also by being more aggressive at the start, you rub it off the rest and your batting can take off really.
First, Ajinkya Rahane does not inspire confidence at all as an opener in LO formats. He needs to be exclusively kept for test cricket (just like Pujara) and must be dropped from both ODI and T20. Second, Dhawan might stay since he has a thing with ICC tournaments and he seems to have made some technical changes to his batting. But he cannot bat along with Rohit Sharma at the top. KL Rahul should be brought back and should be made the first choice opener along with Dhawan. Rahul assumes the aggressor role with Dhawan assuming the anchor role (they can swap it as they like). There is no issue with Virat Kohli's place. Rohit Sharma needs to move down the order in order to beef up the middle order (he bats middle for Mumbai Indians and has done well there). As for backup opener, Robin Uthappa is a straightforward choice and for a more raw talent, Rahul Tripathi can be considered.
Middle Order - Yuvraj Singh, MS Dhoni, Dinesh Karthik, Kedar Jadhav, Hardik Pandya
Big issue here. Maybe the top order's slow starts might have to do with the brittleness of this middle order. Yuvraj looked good in that Pakistan game but he does not strike that confidence among his own teammates, that he used to once before. Post cancer, Yuvraj has looked a completely different person who has just been picked on reputation. As for his fielding, we have to rewind to his glorious moments on YouTube to see what he is capable. He moves much slower on the field and his body language is just dull. He definitely gives the feeling of an old guy. And Kohli never gave an over to Yuvraj for bowling this tournament, and that tells something. Its time we moved past him. Rohit Sharma should slot down (as mentioned above) in the middle order to give it the experience it needs. And India can give Suresh Raina a re-think. Raina is 30, Yuvraj is 35. By 2019, Raina must be only 32 and Yuvraj will be 37. On these batting friendly wickets with no movement whatsoever, we don't need to worry much about Raina's batting issues. And Raina is getting fitter right now after the lull in his career.
MS Dhoni - I've already spoken about this. If I were him, I would gracefully retire right now and give Pant or whoever the chance to cement. There is Parthiv, there is Dinesh Karthik, all of whom can bat. Parthiv and Dinesh have grown in experience and have started showing maturity in their game. Parthiv especially did really well for Mumbai Indians at the top (Parthiv can also be an opener if the need arises). If they feel 2 years is too short a time to blood Pant, Parthiv and/or Dinesh can be given the confidence. Dhoni's batting does not inspire the confidence it used to. He is a very safe wicketkeeper and possibly India's best but we might have to give up on it if we want better middle order options. Dhoni rarely got the chance to bat this tournament but in a pressure situation in the final, he failed. Also we can't have both Yuvraj and Dhoni together in the side. It feels like a burden to carry two older guys at the same time and by 2019, they are going to be 2 further years older.
Manish Pandey once he returns from injury, to give Jadhav a run for his money. Pandey is as good a batsman, and Pandey is an excellent fielder and will probably eat Jadhav for breakfast, lunch and dinner when it comes to fielding. Hardik Pandya with his batting talent inspires confidence but his bowling cannot be used as the fifth option in these flat conditions. I would take him in as a batsman who can bowl, not as a proper allrounder.
(To be continued...)
Sorry for the long post, I prefer putting my thoughts together at once...
Top Order: Rohit Sharma, Shikhar Dhawan, Ajinkya Rahane, Virat Kohli
Numbers say that the top order had an extraordinary tournament. Also the top order ensured that the middle and lower order rarely got a chance to bat. But if you look deep inside, the strike rate of the top order in most matches were simply so underwhelming. It went on to hurt us against Sri Lanka, where we set up an underwhelming total (321) which was eventually chased down in 48 or so overs. Rohit and Dhawan have batted this tournament with a set template, sedate at the start, keep wickets in hand without taking any risks whatsoever, and then explode. This tactic needs scrapping immediately. You have 10 overs of Power Play at the start of the innings. By not taking any risks whatsoever and scoring at an average of 4.8 runs per over in that 10 overs (that's what India average in the first 10 overs in recent times), you are basically wasting the opportunity of adding 20-30 runs extra to your total. And also by being more aggressive at the start, you rub it off the rest and your batting can take off really.
First, Ajinkya Rahane does not inspire confidence at all as an opener in LO formats. He needs to be exclusively kept for test cricket (just like Pujara) and must be dropped from both ODI and T20. Second, Dhawan might stay since he has a thing with ICC tournaments and he seems to have made some technical changes to his batting. But he cannot bat along with Rohit Sharma at the top. KL Rahul should be brought back and should be made the first choice opener along with Dhawan. Rahul assumes the aggressor role with Dhawan assuming the anchor role (they can swap it as they like). There is no issue with Virat Kohli's place. Rohit Sharma needs to move down the order in order to beef up the middle order (he bats middle for Mumbai Indians and has done well there). As for backup opener, Robin Uthappa is a straightforward choice and for a more raw talent, Rahul Tripathi can be considered.
Middle Order - Yuvraj Singh, MS Dhoni, Dinesh Karthik, Kedar Jadhav, Hardik Pandya
Big issue here. Maybe the top order's slow starts might have to do with the brittleness of this middle order. Yuvraj looked good in that Pakistan game but he does not strike that confidence among his own teammates, that he used to once before. Post cancer, Yuvraj has looked a completely different person who has just been picked on reputation. As for his fielding, we have to rewind to his glorious moments on YouTube to see what he is capable. He moves much slower on the field and his body language is just dull. He definitely gives the feeling of an old guy. And Kohli never gave an over to Yuvraj for bowling this tournament, and that tells something. Its time we moved past him. Rohit Sharma should slot down (as mentioned above) in the middle order to give it the experience it needs. And India can give Suresh Raina a re-think. Raina is 30, Yuvraj is 35. By 2019, Raina must be only 32 and Yuvraj will be 37. On these batting friendly wickets with no movement whatsoever, we don't need to worry much about Raina's batting issues. And Raina is getting fitter right now after the lull in his career.
MS Dhoni - I've already spoken about this. If I were him, I would gracefully retire right now and give Pant or whoever the chance to cement. There is Parthiv, there is Dinesh Karthik, all of whom can bat. Parthiv and Dinesh have grown in experience and have started showing maturity in their game. Parthiv especially did really well for Mumbai Indians at the top (Parthiv can also be an opener if the need arises). If they feel 2 years is too short a time to blood Pant, Parthiv and/or Dinesh can be given the confidence. Dhoni's batting does not inspire the confidence it used to. He is a very safe wicketkeeper and possibly India's best but we might have to give up on it if we want better middle order options. Dhoni rarely got the chance to bat this tournament but in a pressure situation in the final, he failed. Also we can't have both Yuvraj and Dhoni together in the side. It feels like a burden to carry two older guys at the same time and by 2019, they are going to be 2 further years older.
Manish Pandey once he returns from injury, to give Jadhav a run for his money. Pandey is as good a batsman, and Pandey is an excellent fielder and will probably eat Jadhav for breakfast, lunch and dinner when it comes to fielding. Hardik Pandya with his batting talent inspires confidence but his bowling cannot be used as the fifth option in these flat conditions. I would take him in as a batsman who can bowl, not as a proper allrounder.
(To be continued...)
(Continued from previous post...)
Spinners - Ravichandran Ashwin, Ravindra Jadeja
Neither did well in this tournament, more so Jadeja who was very tripe in this tournament. Against Sri Lanka and against Pakistan (final), he had to be hidden from the bowling. Similar case with Ashwin who was bowling such a negative line in the final despite having had issues with it in the past. Kuldeep Yadav needs to be given more opportunities, and if either of Jadeja or Ashwin needs to be retained, it might have to be Jadeja because of his fielding. And looking into our domestic cricket, the cupboard currently looks almost empty. So in short, make Ashwin another test specialist and have Kuldeep Yadav and Jadeja as our spin options. Maybe bring in Axar Patel to keep Jadeja on his toes and also have that batting of Axar as a nice backup.
Seamers - B Kumar, J Bumrah, Md Shami, U Yadav
This lineup stays. There is no issue at all with this lineup. In fact this lineup gave India so much confidence that people started saying India's bowling attack looks strong. But its the way they were handled that's a concern. Bumrah can't be a strike bowler for us. He has to be used more in late middle and primarily death. Kumar is good to be used for strike. Either Shami or Yadav needs to be given strike responsibilities. India need to play 3 specialist seamers (not including Pandya) and 2 spinners where Bumrah can be the third seamer. It was ridiculous that Shami didn't play a game in the entire tournament (main tournament). We have the resources here, but we need to change our mindset on how to use them.
Spinners - Ravichandran Ashwin, Ravindra Jadeja
Neither did well in this tournament, more so Jadeja who was very tripe in this tournament. Against Sri Lanka and against Pakistan (final), he had to be hidden from the bowling. Similar case with Ashwin who was bowling such a negative line in the final despite having had issues with it in the past. Kuldeep Yadav needs to be given more opportunities, and if either of Jadeja or Ashwin needs to be retained, it might have to be Jadeja because of his fielding. And looking into our domestic cricket, the cupboard currently looks almost empty. So in short, make Ashwin another test specialist and have Kuldeep Yadav and Jadeja as our spin options. Maybe bring in Axar Patel to keep Jadeja on his toes and also have that batting of Axar as a nice backup.
Seamers - B Kumar, J Bumrah, Md Shami, U Yadav
This lineup stays. There is no issue at all with this lineup. In fact this lineup gave India so much confidence that people started saying India's bowling attack looks strong. But its the way they were handled that's a concern. Bumrah can't be a strike bowler for us. He has to be used more in late middle and primarily death. Kumar is good to be used for strike. Either Shami or Yadav needs to be given strike responsibilities. India need to play 3 specialist seamers (not including Pandya) and 2 spinners where Bumrah can be the third seamer. It was ridiculous that Shami didn't play a game in the entire tournament (main tournament). We have the resources here, but we need to change our mindset on how to use them.
Kumble steps down as Indian coach
Anil Kumble steps down as India coach - Times of India
I would say, time to sack Kohli as captain and give it to Rohit Sharma! Kohli has to take the fall out of this decision by Kumble! If they go ahead with Kohli as captain and hire a new coach, it gives a wrong signal that Kohli has all the power to influence who coaches India! Kumble being a senior statesman and having led India as a coach to a Champions Trophy final, deserves to stay on till the 2019 WC. It's because of Kohli and the media exposure of the rift that Kumble has stepped down in gentlemanly fashion.
Kohli deserves to be sacked as captain! Rohit Sharma needs to take over as captain in ODI and T20. Ajinkya Rahane should take over in test cricket.
Anil Kumble steps down as India coach - Times of India
I would say, time to sack Kohli as captain and give it to Rohit Sharma! Kohli has to take the fall out of this decision by Kumble! If they go ahead with Kohli as captain and hire a new coach, it gives a wrong signal that Kohli has all the power to influence who coaches India! Kumble being a senior statesman and having led India as a coach to a Champions Trophy final, deserves to stay on till the 2019 WC. It's because of Kohli and the media exposure of the rift that Kumble has stepped down in gentlemanly fashion.
Kohli deserves to be sacked as captain! Rohit Sharma needs to take over as captain in ODI and T20. Ajinkya Rahane should take over in test cricket.
B
