India tour of South Africa - 2013/14

If we can eek out another 100 from somewhere, this could be an interesting test match. India have nothing to lose here and who knows what might happen if one or two of our bowlers turn up.
 
Fair play to India, I thought that they would get absolutely blown away by South Africa's pace attack but obviously not.
 
Fair play to India, I thought that they would get absolutely blown away by South Africa's pace attack but obviously not.

This is what most of the Indian supporters want from this tour. If some of these guys can show that they can face fast bowling on these wickets, we are looking at a seriously good team in the making considering how young they are. Full credit to Kohli. It was really refreshing to see all the Indian batsmen dig in there. Rahane at No.6 gives us that extra cushion overseas. I would admit that the SA strategy was a bit baffling. Tahir and Duminy against an Indian top order on a seaming track? Seriously?

Can`t wait for tomorrow. Hope the weather stays good. We have`nt lost a test at Jo`burg.
 
I notice Zaheer Khan is back in the team....where has he been for the last year/2 years?
 
I notice Zaheer Khan is back in the team....where has he been for the last year/2 years?

Mostly out due to injury and when he last played against England at home last December he was woefully out of rhythm and way out of shape. Since then he has been through a rigorous fitness training in France followed by a stint in SA and now looks really lean and fit. Hope his bowling has a lot of his old self in there still.
 
While I'm heartened not to find the score to be along the lines of 130 all out, some of our batters have to be disappointed with the way their lost their wickets. Apart from Vijay's wicket, which was a result of patient, probing bowling and Vijay not being technically proficient enough to deal with it for very long, we've gifted South Africa some cheap wickets.

I think Dhawan will learn from this. It's all about breaking bad habits, and Dhawan's bad habit is overaggression (especially overcompensating against the short stuff in unfavorable conditions), but I think that may be fixed through experience and hard work. These next few away tours can make him a much more complete batsman. I just hope there isn't a coach who's whispering "just play your natural game" in his ears all the time, because that is a load of shit, especially given that his natural game can only work in very specific conditions, and those conditions are not to be found in South Africa.

Rohit's waft, Pujara being sold down the river, and Virat not being able to deal with a slower ball only compounded our problems. That's not to say that South Africa didn't bowl beautifully (they did, hence the innings run rate < 3), but we've not held onto our wickets as dearly as we should have.

Someone needs to explain to me what it is South Africa see in Imran Tahir. The man doesn't seem to be international standard, and South Africa shouldn't be so desperate for a spinner in home conditions.
 
You've got it re Tahir. South Africa have always had problems finding a spinner. They persevered with Paul Harris and are now doing the same with Imran Tahir.
 
You've got it re Tahir. South Africa have always had problems finding a spinner. They persevered with Paul Harris and are now doing the same with Imran Tahir.

Tahir and Duminy gave away 70 runs on a difficult first day track helping the seamers. That`s huge in the context of the game. All said and done, we cannot comment about how difficult the pitch is until we see the SA side bat. I have a bad feeling they are going to pile it on here.
 
Someone needs to explain to me what it is South Africa see in Imran Tahir. The man doesn't seem to be international standard, and South Africa shouldn't be so desperate for a spinner in home conditions.

Yes S Africa should have played a all pace attack as the ODI series. Any one of these 5 guys should have played instead of Tahir: Ryan McClaren, Chris Morris, Kyle Abbot, Marchant De Lange or Hardus Viljeon.

But to be fair to Tahir, he spun S Africa to victory in their most recent test in vs PAK. So he has his uses in certain conditions, but vs IND he was always likely to be a easy target, because of IND historic ease, IND bats handle leg-spinners.
 
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@Epic Ishant is only picked on his last performance in ODI. Well not a bad move I think. Its really brave to show we can Bat! Batting first

Still don't think he should be playing, guy should be totally away from international cricket, playing domestic cricket and getting a fix on his shortcomings.

Anyway, an even days cricket, neither side can really claim that they're ahead of the game, first session tomorrow should be a crucial one.
 
So Bhuvi is finally out from the team. :spy This is how Indian bowlers pass through their career. They do well in domestic. BCCI pick them for national T20 side, then for ODI side then for Test side. Now then, that bowler becomes team crucial part, BCCI keep selecting them in all the 3 formats and he mostly of times gets selected for every match. Bowler don't get that much needed fitness. Now India gets a reserve bowler. :facepalm Just look at South Africa, England and Aussie. They hardly has such common players in all three formats.
 
I would dare call it "India's day". Yes, SA gave us some easy runs through the spinners, but it was their choice. Still our batsmen did admirably well until we gave away some cheap wickets. Though Vijay didn't score much (he just scored 6), he lasted half the opening session for 15 overs. That helped take the shine off the new ball. Pujara could have gone on for bigger things had Kohli not made that mistake.

India should not relax now and get the ground running tomorrow. We still have Ashwin who is a solid bat, more so in tests overseas. Considering his track record in our last overseas tour in Australia, we can rely on him to stick around for quite sometime and help us build our score. If we can get 350-400 here, I would consider it a good score for India to compete in this match.

P.s: I am excited! I expected worse... When I logged into Cricinfo, I was silently praying to see a positive outcome for India.:p That's how bad our overseas reputation is.

And, the new No.4 for India has started off with a bang!! A test century overseas (outside the subcontinent and against major test countries like SA, Eng, Aus) is a priced achievement for any Indian player.
 
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I don't know about your finisher theory. I think a finisher is a special breed of batsman, and deserves his own place. I'd argue that you tried to make Sachin a finisher he wouldn't have the same success as a Bevan or a Dhoni. Some batsmen have a skillset more suited to the top of the order, while others are better at the role of a finisher. Doesn't necessarily mean that those at the top of the order are better.

Speaking of an all-time ODI XI, the selection depends on how much you value batters batting in their position. If you're just picking the seven best ODI batters in history (and I'd probably argue that Dhoni has the numbers to challenge for one of those seven spots, plus the intangibles - leadership, killer instinct, etc), you might omit a finisher. But if you respect batting positions, then the number 6/7 spot basically comes down to Bevan v Dhoni, and you can go on opinion from there.

For me, Gilchrist doesn't make it into the best ODI XI. I'd pick Sangakkara as a keeper batsman at four, and leave the finisher's spot at 6. Sehwag gets anywhere near the team only if the matches are played in the subcontinent, otherwise I'm picking Haynes or Saeed Anwar with Tendulkar (hell, even Ganguly will do better than Sehwag).

Agree with almost everything that you said. Playing Gilchrist anywhere besides the opening spot doesnt make any sense because Gilly played more than 90% of his matches in that position.

Also, I would add Klusener to Bevan vs Dhoni battle simply because he would be very handy as an extra bowler with his fast mediums. Although in pure finishing skills Bevan/dhoni would beat him.

Anyways. This series will be a massive test for MSD - he has a brand new team. He is the senior player now. And his last 2 overseas series were disasters. He will have to think smartly and proactively if India is to challenge SAF in the field at all.

IMO, Finishers are not a special breed, they are players with limited capabilities who cannot bat at the top and score consistently . That is why such players always back themselves up with an additional skill , bowling in case of Bevan and Keeping in case of Dhoni . Such players might not find a place in the team solely on their batting skills or their other additional skill .
Finishers rarely do the bulk of scoring and when they get such an opportunity (in case the top order fails) they do not succeed most of the times (Dhoni's recent innings of 65 against SA is a good example of this . India could not even reach 250 and there might be other instances of this kind) .

In ODI's your best batsmen will always bat at the top , by best I mean batsmen who can face almost anything thrown at them, score runs briskly, bat through the innings if possible and keep their wickets intact and do this consistently enough to justify their position at the top .
Their(Finishers) success is inextricably linked to success of top order . As a result you will find these finishers only in teams with strong batting line up .
If the batting line up is weak these finishers will not thrive because too high a demand will be placed on their batting skills as they will have to score significant portion of the runs scored by their team , that to very frequently which they cannot do (and if they start scoring runs constantly then they will be moved up the order and they are no longer finishers, they are proper batsman) So if Dhoni walks into a team having weak batting line up he might not do well . He has not shown the inclination to come up the order even in South Africa where he is the senior most ODI batsman of Indian team . That says a lot about his confidence in his own batting skills .
As for Sachin , if I am not wrong, for the first 90 odd odi's he played at 5,6 and 7 and for a 16 year old he did pretty OK . AFAIK, Sachin was eager to go up the order right from the beginning . Even as a kid he seemed to be confident about his batting skills though he had never opened an innings before in any form of cricket(school/domestic/international). All through these 90 matches he repeatedly requested to go higher up the order and once he got to the opening slot he made sure that he became the best ODI batsman that ever was . If he had stayed at 6 and 7 he would not have being considered good enough to be the greatest . He moved up because he had complete confidence(as a 16 year old) in his batting skills .

A good ODI batsman may start out as a finisher at 6, 7 or 8 but if he chooses (which Dhoni has) to remain at 6 and 7 then it will always raise doubts about his ability as a batsman

This guy and this guy , at their peak , are much better than Dhoni and more suitable at 6 or 7 .

The Only way Dhoni could have snuck into an ATG ODI team was as a wicket keeper . But here too , Gilchrisht and Sangkarra( somehow missed him in my initial post :facepalm) score over him .

So no Dhoni is not even close to been the greatest ever ODI batsman of either the world or India and I guess the ship has already sailed for him .

You got your answers through other's replies. The kind of impact that you have in a particular format determines where you are the best batsman in that format or not. Dhoni's impact for India in ODI's has been massive almost ever since he started playing for India. In fact, his value has grown exponentially high after he became captain. Before he was a dasher who could finish games quickly for India. Then he became this cool head who doesn't fear any situation in ODI's. To me, Dhoni can easily compete alongside Tendulkar for the greatest batsman for India in ODI's.

P.s: Ask anyone here and they'll say I am a huge Tendulkar fan (at times, fanatic). So if you think I have something against Tendulkar, rest in peace.:D

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Kohli has amassed most of his runs at home (barring a few innings here and there abroad, and that too in helpful batting conditions). Dhoni gets runs everywhere in ODI's. Currently on form, Kohli might be the best ODI bat, but in the current Indian team, there is a better ODI bat than Kohli.


I was not looking for any answers . I was expressing my opinion and answering a question raised by you .
As for Dhoni he is neither India's nor World's best ever ODI batsman and now it is too late for him . He can become India's most successful captain .

Please See that I have listed SRT and MSD as my favourite batsmen . :D
 
So Bhuvi is finally out from the team. :spy This is how Indian bowlers pass through their career. They do well in domestic. BCCI pick them for national T20 side, then for ODI side then for Test side. Now then, that bowler becomes team crucial part, BCCI keep selecting them in all the 3 formats and he mostly of times gets selected for every match. Bowler don't get that much needed fitness. Now India gets a reserve bowler. :facepalm Just look at South Africa, England and Aussie. They hardly has such common players in all three formats.

Bhuvi needs pace for test cricket. I think India need to warm up to the idea of having different set of bowlers for different formats. We always use our successful players for all formats, thereby leading to overkill. We need to seperate ODI/T20 bowlers from test bowlers.
 

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