India's coaching staff (Fletcher/Simmons) - Should they go?

[Epic]

And, I don't really get what wrong has Fletcher done tbh. It is the case with most of the people here. They can't take losses. They call for the heads of either the coach or the captain. Poor guys these tbh. It must be so hard for them. You just can't please these people.

Exactly, it's this rather odd mentality that if something doesn't come off it's obviously wrong, well, I'm sorry, but that's not always the case. These are the times where players/and coaches need backing, instead everyone goes off slagging them, makes me absolutely sick if I'm honest.

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The point regarding selectors not having done enough is spot on. Srikanth's committee basked in the glory of the World Cup victory and nothing else. Its the same as- Ganguly built the team whereas Dhoni now leads a ready team.

That just about proves that it's not Dhoni's fault then, the team Ganguly built has run it's course, time to move on, let Dhoni build his own team.

 

[SaiSrini]

How do you instantly fix batsman not performing and openers who were out of form? What I saw was a Indian team who started to win from tight situations. Unlike throwing the match away or giving up like the past.


Wright lost 2 -1. Tendulkar, Sehwag, VVS and Dravid 2012 is nowhere near them what they were in 2007/2008. You could see the hand eye is not there anymore. No disrepect to NZ but Tim Southee bowled Tendulkar and the Australians went through him like one wouldn't believe. India went over with players that should have retired months before that and instead of bleeding new guys to take over they used the old age home until almost all retired and left a gap hence Tendulkar held on. But who is the selectors? Why is there almost 40 year old in the middle order for India?

That was not Wright, it was Rajput-Kirsten who lost 2-1. Under Wright in 2003, we levelled the series in Australia 1-1

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And, I don't really get what wrong has Fletcher done tbh. It is the case with most of the people here. They can't take losses. They call for the heads of either the coach or the captain. Poor guys these tbh. It must be so hard for them. You just can't please these people.

You want Dhoni to remain, you want Fletcher to remain too. Seems like you can't just see through the problem. Let them remain. Let India go down to the worst ever lows. How long do you want Fletcher's contract to be extended? For another 30 years? Lets send a letter to the BCCI....

 

[Epic]

How much of it is Dhoni's fault really? Dhoni-Kirsten worked, Dhoni-Fletcher didn't, so it must be the coach right...

 

[Gaurav_7]

India got to their highest under whom? Dhoni? Or someone else? And, if the new coach does what Greg Chappell did then? Or, if he is even worse then? Sai, you're so over reactive. Nothing personal but, just saying.

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And, what is the guarantee India will do better after getting a new coach and captain? Or, are you some of those astrologers who knows the future?

 

[Epic]

India got to their highest under whom? Dhoni? Or someone else? And, if the new coach does what Greg Chappell did then? Or, if he is even worse then? Sai, you're so over reactive. Nothing personal but, just saying.

Btw, I need a bit of a history lesson, what exactly did Greg Chappell do? I wasn't the most avid cricket follower then.

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And, what is the guarantee India will do better after getting a new coach and captain? Or, are you some of those astrologers who knows the future?

I kinda see where Sai's coming from, what we're doing is obviously not working or hasn't worked yet and what's the saying? If broken it is, fix it you should and well if we fail trying to fix it, then too bad, we can at least say that we tried.

I have no real side in this btw, I want us to win, but at the same time don't want Dhoni sacked. Something has to happen though, just hoping things will get better on it's own is just dumb.

 

[Gaurav_7]

He was bold and tried to bring some changes to the tradituonal Indian methods and people called for him to be sacked as India didn't do too well.

 

[AbhishekS]

And, what is the guarantee India will do better after getting a new coach and captain? Or, are you some of those astrologers who knows the future?

Going by this theory, no change should ever be encouraged!

As far as the coaching is concerned, I don't think it makes a huge impact at the international level. It surely does makes an impact on younger players, certainly not on the senior pros. You can't expect a new coach coming in and asking Tendulkar, Sehwag, Gambhir or Dhoni to change their style of batting. But a new coach can guide youngsters; and as far as the performance of young players is concerned, it has been pretty good.

So from what I understand, the coach is not the problem but the captain is. Dhoni has seen enough ups and downs since 2007. Five years is pretty long for a captain going by the Indian cricket standards, we certainly need a change now.

 

[SaiSrini]

I don't want Dhoni sacked from the team altogether (I am a big Dhoni fan). I want him to continue as our ODI captain. He is still pretty solid at that. But I feel he needs to be changed (as far as captaincy goes) as far as tests and T20's go. His game has changed drastically and is now not suited for T20's at all.

Regarding Fletcher, the background staff definitely have a big role to play in the environment of the team and subsequently, its performance. As Epic said, Dhoni-Kirsten worked, but Dhoni-Fletcher hasn't. And we have endured two major whitewashed, and various failed tournaments where we didn't even reach the finals (or semis in case of the World T20). I didn't even ask for Fletcher to be sacked NOW. I was just posting that I want Fletcher's contract not to be renewed after the upcoming 6 months. Is that a bad thing to ask? Don't sack him. Just let his contract run out, and JUST DO NOT RENEW IT.

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India got to their highest under whom? Dhoni? Or someone else? And, if the new coach does what Greg Chappell did then? Or, if he is even worse then? Sai, you're so over reactive. Nothing personal but, just saying.

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And, what is the guarantee India will do better after getting a new coach and captain? Or, are you some of those astrologers who knows the future?

I am not being over reactive, buddy. I was never a big supporter of Fletcher's appointment as our coach. It totally came out of the blue (when suddenly Fletcher became our coach). And seeing our performance in the past year or more, my disgust for Fletcher has only grown. If you don't believe the coach and his support staff don't play a role in the team's performance, then why do teams have them at all? Even today, the coach's role is pretty important.

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Going by this theory, no change should ever be encouraged!

As far as the coaching is concerned, I don't think it makes a huge impact at the international level. It surely does makes an impact on younger players, certainly not on the senior pros. You can't expect a new coach coming in and asking Tendulkar, Sehwag, Gambhir or Dhoni to change their style of batting. But a new coach can guide youngsters; and as far as the performance of young players is concerned, it has been pretty good.

When it comes to senior pros, the coach's primary job with them changes. With them, its a case of keeping them on their toes, encouraging them, being proactive in guiding them during their training, etc.

I bet the international coach does the same even with younger players. You are not going to come into the international team and learn batting or bowling or fielding with the international coach.

 

[icyman]

Fletcher's appointment did come as a bit of a shock. IMO, it was arranged quite hastily, unlike the previous times when there used to be a lot of fanfare regarding the appointment of a coach.

For those who are against the idea of replacing the coach and captain, I'd simply request you guys to have a look at the Sri Lankans. Geoff Marsh was sacked immediately. They were clear in their approach. The BCCI does not seem to do that.Even after a 0-8 whitewash we are still stuck with Fletcher.

 

[sifter132]

As far as the coaching is concerned, I don't think it makes a huge impact at the international level. It surely does makes an impact on younger players, certainly not on the senior pros. You can't expect a new coach coming in and asking Tendulkar, Sehwag, Gambhir or Dhoni to change their style of batting. But a new coach can guide youngsters; and as far as the performance of young players is concerned, it has been pretty good.

This is what Greg Chappell tried to do, get the team playing under HIS template for success and to change the way the Indians played to suit his methods. But the senior players didn't want to. BOTH sides were very stubborn (I'm certainly not on Chappell's side...or the players...just a really bad appointment by BCCI) Chappell wrote an article about Sehwag recently detailing Viru's ambivalence to change, selfishness and his poor training habits:
India news : Sehwag's attitude very frustrating - Greg Chappell | Cricket News | ICC World Twenty20 2012 | ESPN Cricinfo

I think this is the major problem: the players have become bigger than the coach/captain ie. the inmates are running the asylum. Strong selectors would stand up and say that the senior players haven't been good enough and DROP them.

Going forward I think the best way for India to succeed would be to clear the house completely. Change selectors. Get a strong coach who the players will respect and who won't put up with any crap. Drop the players that are being selected on reputation or players he thinks will be a problem with his philosophy eg. Sehwag, and start fresh.

 

[SaiSrini]

Its easy to see that Sehwag is one of the major problems right now in the Indian setup. He seems to be polarizing opinions, and he is pretty much playing the same role that Ganguly in his dark days as a player/captain did (i.e. divide the team). The problem with him is that, he delivers once in a blue moon and yet he is so heavy for his boots. He was dropped rightfully for that game against Australia, and yet when we lost that game badly, people criticised Dhoni for dropping Sehwag. That was one bold decision Dhoni took and took it right. Yet, he was crucified for it.

I certainly believe Sehwag should be dropped again from all formats. Yes, ALL FORMATS! Our test middle order has some exciting prospects like Pujara, Rahane, etc and other guys like Rayudu, Menaria, etc. And for opening, Sehwag is no more a fit for overseas conditions and if we have to build for that SA tour next year, we should not let Sehwag bat in easy conditions, inflate his average and think he will do well in SA too.

 

[Epic]

We've been so bad lately that if we started dropping players we would have to clean house like sifty says, maybe that's the thing to do, I really don't know.

 

[Satan666]

You want Dhoni to remain, you want Fletcher to remain too. Seems like you can't just see through the problem. Let them remain. Let India go down to the worst ever lows. How long do you want Fletcher's contract to be extended? For another 30 years? Lets send a letter to the BCCI....

Yeah I am for that!

 

[icyman]

The divide between Sehwag and Dhoni started way back in England. Yes, we had heard rumours of the same then. However, the BCCI should have intervened and set the house in order then itself. In hindsight, it is easy to say so.

Cleaning the entire set-up is definitely required. We wont go anywhere with this kind of team and admin. Admittedly this will come as a shock to the entire nation, but in these dire times, we are left with no other option.

 

[Aalay]

The divide between Sehwag and Dhoni started way back in England.

How about NO? I will give you a slight highlight of this ----. The rift started when Dhoni became the captain. Sehwag always had the hidden fantasy to captain team India and all the Indian fans were expecting the same thing after Dravid stepped down. Though his poor form during that time made BCCI change their decision and captaincy was handed to MS Dhoni. From this very day, Sehwag had dislike for Dhoni but it started creating controversy during final of the WC T20 2007, when Dhoni dropped Sehwag saying he has shoulder problem and brought in Yusuf Pathan. Sehwag said he wasn't injured but he was dropped but people forgot it because we won. Same thing happened in 2009 WC. Sehwag was carrying an injury in 2009 T20 WC from IPL but he was still selected because physio declared him fit. At this time, it was Dhoni who said that his physio should held a press conference about Sehwag's injury. Furthermore, on India's tour of Bangladesh in 2010, Dhoni missed the first test because of the back problem, Harbhajan also missed the match and Mishra came in for him and Sehwag was the captain. Mishra did well in the test match and when Dhoni came back in as a captain in the next test match, Sehwag forced him to bring Mishra into final 11 but Dhoni did not pick him. This caused a big argument between both Dhoni and Sehwag in dressing room suggested by media reports. Again we won, so this incident didn't cause much trouble. And now comes the England tour where it again created the headlines. And now because we lost, there was more hype created around this ----. Same with tour of Australia, just because we lost, more hype was created around this incident giving it a new name of "rotation policy".