Ireland-Test Status

[StinkyBoHoon]

Even if Ireland did, Morgan is basically a shoe in (although he has some competition) to replace Collingwood @ # 6 in the test XI for ENG next test. Plus he is indispensable in the ODI/T20 set-up. So id expect the ECB, Strauss & Flower to do everything in their power to keep him from making such a u-turn in the future.

he won't turn back because the re-qualification period takes something like 5 years (joyce got special permission) but this sort of thinking "we'll 'ave your best batsmen and go out of our way to keep them." is how club football works and I would hate to see this applied in cricket.

 

[offdriven4]

he won't turn back because the re-qualification period takes something like 5 years (joyce got special permission) but this sort of thinking "we'll 'ave your best batsmen and go out of our way to keep them." is how club football works and I would hate to see this applied in cricket.

i think it also comers down to pure economics,the only Cricketers in the world who earn more than English internationals,are indian or IPL stars.
Also Ireland will not get test status for AT LEAST 10 years,as it stands the domestic structure in Ireland is only just above the level of village cricket.Irish criciket also suffers from the fact that until recently very few irish people realised they had a side,due to cricket being well below football,rugby,gaelic football and many other sports in the pecking order.
The only ways in which i can see this being rectified is if the ICC invests heavily in irish cricket,which due to the unlikelyhood of making a profit,will not happen.Or alternatively ireland joining the English county championship and adding maybe three or four first class teams.(munster,connacht,ulster,leinster possibly)

 

[Themer]

Or alternatively ireland joining the English county championship and adding maybe three or four first class teams.(munster,connacht,ulster,leinster possibly)

That would never happen. There's too many teams in English county cricket as it is on a monetary and amount of games played note.

The only viable way I could see of Ireland gaining test status is a rudimentary first class system with three of four teams in it, heavily subsidised by the ICC.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

what I find is odd is, no IPL team wants to pick them up despite the fact they'll be free for every game guaranteed for every tournament.

It's asking a lot but it would be good if the IPL had an extra foreign player spot for players not of test playing nations.

obvs this has nothing to do with test status but it would be nice to see these guys making a bit of cash for taking such a leap of faith in their careers and becoming cricketers in a non-cricketing nation.

 

[Papa_Smurf]

Posted this in the Ind-Holl game, but it may be more suitable over here.

Yeah, a target of below 200 was never going to trouble the Indian line-up. Having said that, Holland have put up one hell of a fight.

Both Ireland and Holland can take a lot from this WC. They've managed to impress the world. Would be a real shame if their efforts go un-noticed by the ICC after this WC. They need more exposure, so the game's profile rises in their respective countries. Once that happens, then slowly a first-class structure can be implemented. And once that happens, then we can say hi to 2 new test nations.

Long way to go, I know, but if the ICC do this properly, then hopefully they can avoid the mistake they made with Bangladesh of giving the status too quickly.

But the game needs to spread, and it's up to the ICC to do so. If they ignore Ireland and Holland now after these performances, then they might as well as scrap the whole Associates, Leagues 1, 2, 3 etc thing altogether.

 

[icyman]

IMO, a 2-tier Test league can be and should be incorporated. That is the only way to improve these nations. With plans to establish a Test league, this can be thought about.

The Dutch may not have won any matches but have surely played well in the Cup. Ireland, too seem to be a force to reckon with, though some may argue that the sheer brilliance of Kevin O'Brien can be attributed to their performances.

 

[offdriven4]

even canada have contributed

 

[Owzat]

I would like them to first play ODI's regularly with the bigger teams and then consider test spot. We just don't want to have another test team that can't compete with the best teams.

Exactly. We already have a division within a division without actually splitting them, mostly because people are selfish including the boards and are worried they might not be in the elite group or "what if the Ashes don't take place, wah wah wah"

Zimbabwe and Bangladesh are strugglers, West Indies not much better and New Zealand also in the lower of the divisions with the division. One collapse in the West Indies led to the only series defeat England have suffered against that lot, Test defeats are also as rare and yet we continue to play them as "equals".

Actually not Just Ireland but other associates like Netherland,Scotland,Afghanistan who are putting up a good fight against big teams should be given ODI status and should play big teams regularly.

I suggest the way forward is to trial tiers in ODIs which should reduce the ODI schedule, and if it works out with extra countries making up say three tiers, then move to making it happen in Tests.

The plus? Some tours will be shorter, less cricket and the "Championship" can be played properly rather than just being a glorified ranking with say six team in each tier and just 10 series to complete a "Championship".

While some may fear they won't get to play their favourite series, who says you can't outside of the competition structure? It just means it would be outside of the competition, so say the Ashes happened to not be a competitive fixture in the sense it wouldn't count towards a championship and points, it wouldn't stop being competitive and each "friendly" could be counted in the averages just the same.


But just giving Ireland Test status would be wrong. They can be a good side on their day, but they would struggle and there's too many teams already. Oversimplified reaction from those voting for "yes", they were still only around the 9th-10th best ODI SIDE at the World Cup and the Test arena already has four sides (Zimbabwe only nominally at the moment) who aren't good enough.

Mohit is right, I gather Ireland is going to play the big guns more frequently with some big names set to play them, but they need to be beating the big guns more regularly as well before even considering Test status. As far as I'm concerned there isn't a space in Test cricket for them in the current structure so any bandwagon trying to garner support for their "promotion" should perhaps aim at a restructure. Bangladesh getting Test status is not viewed as a big success, Sri Lanka were the last truly successful promotion and while Zimbabwe have had their moments they too have struggled and shown a need for tiers

 

[angryangy]

That would never happen. There's too many teams in English county cricket as it is on a monetary and amount of games played note.

The only viable way I could see of Ireland gaining test status is a rudimentary first class system with three of four teams in it, heavily subsidised by the ICC.

It'd be probably four; I'm fairly sure that Northern Ireland wholly participates in Irish cricket, so you'd just have the four provinces.

 

[dancingmongoose]

Ireland deserve test status. And (by some miracle) if they are given it soon, it doesnt mean they have to start playing a jam packed year of tests. I cant even remember the last time Bangladesh and Zimbabwe played test against Australia. Doesnt mean Ireland must, just 1 match series against lower test nation

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

It'd be probably four; I'm fairly sure that Northern Ireland wholly participates in Irish cricket, so you'd just have the four provinces.

a celtic league may be viable if they bunged in a scottish province or two. works in rugby with the magners league.

 

[Owzat]

Test status - Ireland/anyone

Listening to a TMS chat with column writers on Sunday the discussion inevitably turned to the ICC u-turn on the World Cup. There were mixed views on the World Cup, not so much letting the 'minnows' back, but more the formats, qualifying etc.

They then started talking a little about Test status. One person commented that without a first class structure Ireland couldn't become a Test nation. Not sure if it was the same person who said that it isn't that well known a sport in Ireland, that they had to explain cricket as if to a young kid when there was going to be a TV or radio interview, so the interviewer had a little understanding if I recall correctly.

Anyway, do YOU agree that Ireland couldn't become a Test playing nation unless cricket is suddenly in the hearts of the people, played at a decent level in a solid structure and with everyone having cricket fever?

I would have liked to have been in that discussion if only to point out that Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland don't have the underlying football league structure, but their players often find clubs in England and Scotland, so they have a decent quality of player. Ireland has decent cricketers, a number plying their trade in England even if some have turned to England for ODIs and/or Tests. A few that surely could play to the same kind of level as Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, if not West Indies, would have to include Morgan (Middlesex), Joyce (Sussex), Niall O'Brien (Northants), Kevin O'Brien (Gloucestershire), Stirling (Middlesex), Porterfield (Warwickshire), Wilson (Surrey), Dockrell (Somerset) and Rankin (Warwickshire)

Morgan currently plays for England, but there's NINE players in a first class structure who could play for Ireland, does it matter if they aren't playing first class cricket in Ireland?!?!?

And I could also argue the case that a country who has no team to follow in a sport at the higher levels will not develop much interest, unless it happens to be their national sport (or very popular) despite them not being good enough globally. Cricket won't become a global sport while it is elitist, I am quite surprised how well some of the minnows at World Cups do considering the ICC doesn't give them much facility to improve.

A man I used to play at snooker reckoned to improve you had to play someone better than you, I disagreed as you just spent your time putting the colours back on the spot. To improve you need to play against opposition of the same level, or a bit tougher. No point getting smashed for 300+ and skittled for under 150, that teaches you nothing except what you already know - you are out of your league. If the ICC put in tiers then teams would be playing their own level, those that improve or play best pit their skills at the next level. Maybe you will get a yo-yo effect for a while, but is that still true of county cricket now it has settled a little bit? Leagues of six would mean less fixtures and a feasible championship not a theoretical one.

Problem is the existing Test nations and a lot of their fans are stuck in their ways as much as a lot of cricket is stuck in the 19th century. What is gained by either side when England play West Indies, New Zealand, Zimbabwe or Bangladesh? England usually win, the opposition might cause an upset, but it is pointless. If football had one big division instead of the top two divisions in England, where would the point be? More games, the top sides thrashing the bottom sides and if there were no promotion or relegation you'd have the same top sides thrashing the same weak sides, week in week out. Noone gains from that, the spectators might be entertained by their side's dominance but it would be booooooo-ring. A true contest is far more interesting and rewarding if you win.

So back to the main question, do you think there needs to be a first class structure in place in a country wishing to become a Test nation? Or do you feel the main focus should be on whether they have the quality of players, maybe even agree with me that tiers is the only way to go as there are already too many Test nations to make the current structure work (properly)

 

[teamindia]

The need to first prove they are good in ODI and T20. At the same time they need to play more 3-4 day matches against A teams. The problem no one seem to be interested in them since even if they succeed, it is very small market. Everything comes down to $$$ these days.

 

[Themer]

I would have liked to have been in that discussion if only to point out that Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland don't have the underlying football league structure

Yes they do.

 

[Papa_Smurf]

Could be possible without a FC structure. Look at Pak for instance - they hardly pick players on FC performance.