WOW Wonderful Posts but half it is all wrong.
Ok I'll take those one by one.
Jordan made the last shot in the 82 Championship game, Worthy shot 13-17 during that game, so why didn't he take the last shot????
So your contending that because MJ made the last shot of the championship game he "led" NC to the title even though Worthy carried the team ? Using your same criteria then consider the following:
1. 1993 NBA Finals
John Paxson's sinks the game-winning three-pointer and at the other end of the floor, Horace Grant slaps away Kevin Johnson's last-second drive.
2.1997 NBA finals
In the final game a 90-86 win, it wasn't Jordan supplying the heroics, it was Steve Kerr who hit the clutch game winner.
Does that mean Paxton Horace or Kerr "led" the Bulls? Hardly. Does it negate everything MJ did till then ? MJ was the one who led his team undoubtedly as it was Worthy on the NC team.
As to why Worthy didn't take the last shot, why didn't MJ take it instead of Kerr or Paxton ? Because they had him blanketed with defenders and it made more sense for someone else to take the shot.They played fundemental basketball.
And Guess what MJ was a Freshman.
One word.Magic.He put up impressive numbers as a freshman (17.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 7.4 apg), leading the Spartans to a 25-5 record and the Big Ten Conference title. As an All-America sophomore Johnson directed his team to the national title in 1979, beating Larry Bird's Indiana State squad in perhaps the most anticipated NCAA Championship Game ever played.
Magic was a first-team All-American freshman. Jordan wasnt even all-conference as a freshman. And he faced no one with close to the talent level of Bird in college.
How did Jordan do for the remainder of his college career? In 1981, the year before Jordan supposedly led Carolina to the title, Sam Perkins, Al Wood and James Worthy led the Tar Heels to the National Championship game, where they lost to Isiah Thomas and the Indiana Hoosiers. Surely Jordan could carry on this streak of championship game appearances, right? Wrong.
His teams never even made it back to the Final Four, let alone to the championship. Did he lack the teammates? No. He played with Sam Perkins (#4 pick in the 1984 draftright behind Jordan), Brad Daugherty (#1 in the 1986 draft) and Kenny Smith (#6 in the 1987 draft). Yet, without Worthy, theres Jordan leading his team to disappointing finishes, despite having a #2 seed and a #1 seed if it were anyone else, the media would call them "chokes."
Yes, the counter-argument is that the NCAA tournament is upset-prone, but come on...what happened to Michael Jordan's overrated "will to win?" Don't tell me this was just another product of the media! Wilt Chamberlain was called a "loser" for losing to an undefeated team in the finals in triple-overtime, yet Jordan couldn't even lead a team to the Finals, let alone the Final Four -- and he's supposed to be the "best ever?" I think not. Funny how short Jordan comes up when you level the playing field and use the same standards to measure him that are used to measure everybody else.
Making the Last min shots is what Jordan great.
As for Jordan's supposed "clutch" ability, sure he put his hand up in pressure situations but so did others. You might have heard of Mr. Clutch ? Jerry West hit many more clutch shots than Jordan ever did in his career. And what about the
60-foot bomb that tied Game 3 of the 1970 NBA Finals against the New York Knicks ? Probably the most famous clutch shot ever.Worthy was the clutch big-game player of the Showtime Era.His performance alone in the 1988 finals makes him "worthy".Hakeem. As the sixth-seed Rockets knocked off the 60-win Utah Jazz, the 59-win Phoenix Suns, the 62-win San Antonio Spurs and the 57-win Orlando Magic The Dream sunk crucial basket after basket on his way to the title.
What about Bird and Reggie Miller ? The list goes on.... the only reason Jordan is considered so hgihly in this regard is again due to media hype. Players like West and others in the 70s and early 80s didnt get anywhere near that kind of publicity since hoops was still a fringe sport commercially.
We all miss Michael. Face it, though, his greatness was defined by memorable moments against Byron Russell and Craig Ehlo, in a diluted era when 60 wins might not mean home court advantage in the conference finals. Transpose the 1962-68 Royals to the 1990s (with Phil as their coach) and Oscar is making long distance calls and dining with the President.
I do agree with you about Jordan not been the Greatest College Player Ever.
Good.Or else Pistol Pete, Walon, Kareem and many others would be real cross with you
Pippen is what he is today because of Michael.......
There's lot here I dont' agree with.
Without MJ he led Bulls Pts, Steals, and so on but who was the 2nd best player on their team at that time.
You've accidentally hit the nail on the head.
A common argument I've faced is, "the Bulls didn't win the title in 1994, did they?" While Jordan fans claim that he and he alone was single-handedly responsible for the title, they conveniently neglect 1995. Jordan
did come back that season. However, the Bulls didn't have Horace Grant (and Dennis Rodman would not join until the next season). Without Grant, their rebounding and interior defense deficiencies were exposed by the Orlando Magic (Horace Grant's team, ironically), and the Bulls lost in the second round
2-4. The previous year, without Jordan, they lost
3-4 in the 2nd round. Now if Jordan were single-handedly responsible for those titles, why did they do even worse in the playoffs after he returned than they did the year before, when they didn't have him?
Sure, they won the championship the following season,you may point out, but they fixed their rebounding/interior defense problems by acquiring Dennis Rodman. Without Grant or Rodman, Jordan simply could not win a championship. After all, the team really didn't miss him that badly when he retired.
When 1995 is brought up, people will invariably say "Jordan had court rust, what do you expect?" Jordan played 17 games that season. In 1986, Jordan played 18 games. In the 1986 playoffs Jordan scored a playoff-record 63 points. Why was Jordan able to shake the court rust in 1986 and not in 1995 when he was in his prime ? Jordan fans usually claim that he got
better as he got older.
Furthermore, to expose the double-standard, in 1969-70, Wilt Chamberlain played 9 games and then tore up his knee (similar injury to Charles Barkley's career-ending injury). He returned for the final 3 games of the regular season, and then took his team to the 7th game of the NBA finals (the famous Willis Reed game). Why is Chamberlain a "loser" and Jordan "has court rust"? Chamberlain's team went to the 7th game of the NBA Finals. Jordan's team couldn't even get to the 7th game of the Eastern Conference semi-finals. If Jordan is better than Wilt (and everybody else), then Jordan has no excuse for not leading the Bulls to the 1995 NBA Championship. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Losing to Orlando in the Conference semi-finals can only be described as a major choke.
Few years later MJ retires and Pippen goes to Portland......
Pippen is still a reasonably dominating defensive player, and he continues to be a playmaker.MJ lost a lot of respect when he took short cuts on D to uphold up his offense.The great under-told story is that Jordan's pro teams have never had a winning season w/out Scottie Pippen. And Pippen's never played for a loser, with or w/out Jordan. The worst record Pippen's teams have ever hadis 47-35, both times w/ Michael Jordan on board.Michael's the best of his era, but owes a great deal of his team's accomplishments to Scottie. One player no matter how good isn't enough to win a title.
Jordan is also 1-9 in playoff games prior to Pip's arrival in Chicago, while Pip has made it to the Conference Finals as a Blazer and came very close (one bad Hue Hollins call, which the league later acknowledged ) from doing so in the year after Jordan's first retirement.
True Scottie didn't really deserve to get into the Hall. He's a very good player but not a great one. He may have a inordinately big contract but nothing in comparison to the Bakers, Howards and even the Browns of the game.
He has shown what it takes to win to these little kids in Wizards team and next year they might even get to the Playoffs in a Crappy Eastern Conference. WIZARDS won 19 games before MJ came back and the two years he played, He almost took the Wizards the Playoffs.
Dream on. With MJ out they simply don't have the players to win, even in the East.Kwame is unhappy. Doug is unhappy. Jerry Stackhouse is unhappy, but might not be able to opt-out of his contract. MJ isn't happy with the players.The irony in it is that 11 out of 13 players on the Wiz squad were handpicked by MJ the GM.
Stackhouse is the 2nd most Selfish player in the NBA after Allen Iverson. Stackhouse played of ****ty woof! Pistons where he took half the shots and got those stats that got him into the all star game. With Wizards he wasn't the #1 player on that team thats what pissed him off and he really didn't care that much the whole season.
That seems more emotion than sense speaking there mate
Detroit is a defense oriented team with very few scorers. Stackhouse
was required to take those shots to just keep them in the game, and scoring is something he can do. Who do you think kept the scoreboard ticking when MJ had those 6-10 point games this season ? Stackhouse was in the unfamiliar position of playing off Jordan, trying to be a standstill jump shooter, which is not his game at all.Their halfcourt offense frequently disintegrated into Jordan or Stackhouse trying to beat the shot clock. The Wizards still don't have a legitimate No. 1 point guard, or big-time low-post scorer on their roster. Doug's authority has been undermined and players openly disrespect him now.
If he doesn't return to the Wiz front office I'd have to say he put a franchise on hold for two years to chase his own fortysomething fantasies.It's also the franchise that, with Jordan in charge, drafted Kwame Brown instead of trading for Elton Brand or drafting Pau Gasol.
He did give them a glimpse into his winning world and he did fill the seats. From a purely selfish point I'm glad he came back. Don't get me wrong, there are very few players I'd rather watch but did he make the Wiz better ? I'm not so sure.
Wilt Chamberlain and Oscar Roberston and Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar were all 7 feet tall.
Firstly
only Chamberlain and Jabbar were over 7 feet.
Russell was
6"8 and listed as 6"10 in the NBA
Oscar was
6"5 (shorter than MJ ) yet he did things Jordan can only dream of.
In his first season as a pro, he averaged 30.5 ppg, 9.7 rpg, and 9.7 apg. (Jordan averaged 28.2, 6.5, and 5.9). Over the course of his first five seasons Robertson AVERAGED a triple-double. Triple-double games were not recorded when Robertson played. It was another day at the office for him. This perfectly illustrates the difference between Robertson and Jordan. The media made a big deal out of Jordan having the first (recorded) triple-double in All-Star history, just like they make a big deal out of Jason Kidds 7-or so triple-doubles he has each year. For Robertson, he didnt need to have an extra assists to reach 10, to have that "triple-double," because it wasnt a big deal. The media saw greatness for what it was and not because a guy has 10 assists, 10 rebounds, and 10 points. Robertson didnt simply have triple-doubles, he had man-sized triple-doubles. His triple-doubles were on the order of 30-11-10.
**** I would have scored 100 pts if I was 7 feet tall and playing NBA in the 60's and 70's. There were no one during that time that could defend 7 feet players. Thus all these tall players got their Titles
I dont mean to offend and I appreciate your arguments elsewhere but that is a very ignorant and false statement . Dont get angry
I'll tell you why.
There are a couple of things wrong with this one. First, who says that
being bigger guarantees dominance? If that were the case, we'd be handing
the MVP over to Shawn Bradley right about now. Second, its not as though there were no tall people in the 60s. Wilt has actually published a list of tall people he played against, to dispel that very myth. The list includes Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Nate Thurmond, Bob Lanier, Artis Gilmore, Walt Bellamy, and many more.
If you try to attribute Wilt's astonishing career to height, how can you explain why Abdul-Jabbar couldnt equal these feats, despite being taller, and playing against Chamberlain for four seasons, or why players like Shawn Bradley, Rik Smits, Ralph Sampson, Gheorghe Muresan, Mark Eaton, or Dikembe Mutombo have never challenged these feats ? Furthermore, to use height as an excuse is to say that Jordan needs handicaps to look good. Why not spot him 2 strokes per hole if you golf with him?
Wilt's defining moments came against Bill Russell, Kareem, Thurman and Willis (and those are some of the
best big men ever !) , with a power forward (or a dirty small forward) banging on him as well. Jordan the market-maker was protected. Wilt, like his peers, physical absorbed punishment as part of the job.
Just as catchers and shortstops have a leg up in baseball MVP voting, so also a great center means more than a great guard. A great center must rebound prodigiously, score in the clutch, anchor the defense, and if he is truly great, pass well.
Jordans feats cannot match up to Chamberlains. You may point to their career scoring averages, yet why does Chamberlain have 119 games with 50+ points, to Jordans 30. Furthermore, if you chalk up Chamberlain's rebounding dominance to his height advantage, why did he lead the league in assists, and Jordan a guard could not ?
And oh...Big Russ had to go through Baylor, West, Barry, Greer, Schayes, Pettit, and Wilt to get those 11 rings!!!!
As for your "list of greatness" a similar once could be made up for any of the players I've put forward in this rather long post.
For the sake of completeness I'll address the relevant ones.
1,2 already answered.
3. Any MJ scoring "record" is futile . 56 Wilt
4. Big Russ had to go through Baylor, West, Barry, Greer, Schayes, Pettit, and Wilt to get those 11 rings!!!!
6. As I already stated not even close to being the best dunker or having the best vertical leap.
8. For the same reason i refer you to
Oscar facts
Wilt ? Records ? YOu dont want to go there...trust me
10. I would like to emphasize a point I made a long time ago.
There needn't be a best player of all time; it could be a tie. In fact, I
think it's about a 7-way tie: Wilt, Big O Magic, Bird, Kareem, Jordan, and
Russell. These players are all so good, and all so different, that forcing
a choice would be somewhat artificial. Having said all of this, however,
if I were forced to choose, I would say that Wilt Chamberlain was the best
of all time.
I leave you with this:
Imagine a college player coming into the NBA next season and scoring 5157 points and averaging 64.5 ppg. Then the following season he scores 5776 points while averaging 65.8 ppg. Then the next season he scores 7670 points and averages 86.2 ppg.
Along the way he has single game highs of 110 and 141.
He does this while also pulling down 2578 rebounds his first year for a 32.6 average and follows it up his second year with 2862 - a 32.9 avg.
But he's criticized and told he shoots too much.
So then he decides to concentrate on only taking sure shots and
raises his field goal % to .741, follows that a couple of years later with a .934 FG% and concludes a couple of years later with a .990 FG %
Those numbers are what someone coming into the league today would have to register to change the existing records by the same percentage increases that Wilt Chamberlain did.
Great I have enough material for a follow up article
. I was resisting the temptation to post but I'm weak 
