MS Dhoni-Hack or Star?

[woodywiss sa sa]

Aye, I was worried abou the Patel statement as I haven't seem him forever because of the lack of Indian Cricket on English/Sky TV.
But I went to my 3rd test match when India were over here a couple of years ago and Patel Kept and Looked fantastic at 17 or around there so I was just making the assumption he would get better, although due to lack of coverage...

 

[sohum]

And a technically perfect keeper in Patel? Technique may be good, but he seems to miss a lot...

Maybe he meant batting, you know those perfect edges, I mean, 'guides' down to third man for four.

 

[Cricket_god]

Look at his technique, He's not a Keeper (y) He's fairly poor down the leg-side to Spinners. Why play such a player when you have a technically almost perfect keeper in both Karthik and Patel and Both Bat. Actually, Dhoni is more of a diving type keeper than Karthik because Dhonis poor technic and Leg side footwork make it more difficult for him. So don't judge on just face value. He's ok to spinners but keeping to spinners is Pish, I'm a Keeper myself, You HAVE to have a stong technique and He doesn't.

Oh what rubbish you are keeper yourself and tell that keeping to spinners on turning tracks in india is easy i think after nayan mongia dhoni is the best i do not judge by one match but till now what i have seen.Dhoni has great eyes and good feet for spinners and stays down low.

 

[puddleduck]

Oh what rubbish you are keeper yourself and tell that keeping to spinners on turning tracks in india is easy i think after nayan mongia dhoni is the best i do not judge by one match but till now what i have seen.Dhoni has great eyes and good feet for spinners and stays down low.

Even the staunchest of Indian fans wouldn't try and claim that Dhoni was a top class keeper, yes he has improved quite a lot since his first few games with the gloves, but to try and claim that Dhoni is the best Indian keeper going either means there are some very untalented glovemen (not the case) or some rather blinkered views. If he carries on improving at the rate he has done he will end up a very good keeper I'm sure, but he still has some way to go yet.

 

[Cricket_god]

Even the staunchest of Indian fans wouldn't try and claim that Dhoni was a top class keeper, yes he has improved quite a lot since his first few games with the gloves, but to try and claim that Dhoni is the best Indian keeper going either means there are some very untalented glovemen (not the case) or some rather blinkered views. If he carries on improving at the rate he has done he will end up a very good keeper I'm sure, but he still has some way to go yet.

I think you have a seriously wrong impression of dhoni keeping to two spinners is the most difficult job nobody does that not even gilly and he has done a great job if you bring the so called great young keepers to india they will all struggle .he is improving by every match and thats the quality that a team wants.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

But KKD has shown willingness to improve too. And he works hard, always in high spirits, and really wanst that Test spot. So much, that he requested his domestic team skipper to make him open. And KKD is a geat keeper too.

 

[puddleduck]

I think you have a seriously wrong impression of dhoni keeping to two spinners is the most difficult job nobody does that not even gilly and he has done a great job if you bring the so called great young keepers to india they will all struggle .he is improving by every match and thats the quality that a team wants.

Surely keeping to two spinners is easier than to one as you can settle into a rhythm?

Considering you are about the only person who seems to think Dhonis glovework is excellent is it not possible that you "have a seriously wrong impression of Dhoni"?

As I said he has improved throughout his time, although he was fairly poor to start with, so he had to really. The key is whether he keeps improving from there. Would still get into the England team at the moment without doubt

 

[woodywiss sa sa]

It doesn't matter that he may want to move heaven and Earth to improve, I always want to improve, doesn't mean I'm going to get a test call up is it for pure detirmination. A Keeper playing at International level should be able to keep well to spinners tbh. Even Geraint Jones in India kept fairly well against our Spinners, so Surely an Indian brought on up on those wickets should do a better job. There's a reason Gilly does'nt keep to two Spinners, because Australia don't usually play 2 Spinners, And they have in the past and he has done it very well so that just demolishes your arguement on that front.

He Might stay down low, Watch Keepers around the World, Staying down low is no longer taught as an nessersity because it us to the Keeper, staying down low has many factors around it, such as Height, I'm fairly sure that Dhoni is taller than Karthik therefore, Dhoni has to stay down lower because his upright body position would put his hands to high whereas it's the opposite with Karthik he gets up quicker so he is in a better position.

He has a good eye, I'm not disagreeing but thats what makes him such a good batsman because technically with the bat he isn't great as well but his eye gets him out of trouble most of the time.

Your claiming him to be the 2nd best keeper india has eve rproduced after less than 50 Test matches? What Stupidity, He's not even that assured of a place. It's a ridiculous statement, As a Keeper he's not the best around in the World in fact in my list he'd be very low down. Gilchrist, McCullum, Jayawordene {sp}, Read, Foster, Davies, Karthik, Ramdin, Taibu are all better.

Your arguement would stand up if you were arguing that his Batting is better than Karthiks but your not, your going on Keeping ability and technique and it's a completely misguided arguements because he's fairly average in both departments for international level.

In My Opinion your buying too much into the stardom surrounding essentially a very average player. He's been billed up as a hell of a lot better than he actually is.

 

[puddleduck]

Jayawordene {sp}

Whilst I agree with most of what you have said, I would like to point out that you have spelled this so wrong as to get a different player all together

I think you were looking for Sangakarra instead of Jayawardene

 

[Cricket_god]

Surely keeping to two spinners is easier than to one as you can settle into a rhythm?

Considering you are about the only person who seems to think Dhonis glovework is excellent is it not possible that you "have a seriously wrong impression of Dhoni"?

As I said he has improved throughout his time, although he was fairly poor to start with, so he had to really. The key is whether he keeps improving from there. Would still get into the England team at the moment without doubt

Right now in india as karthick has done well in one match he is been made a star .off all the matches i have seen karthick he has dropped some easy chances of kumble and harbhajan in india and also kumble almost after every miss was giving him a look.Also keeping to both spinners who are dependent on bounce on indian tracks is the most difficult job in the world.Keepers have there careers ended keeping to kumble.

It doesn't matter that he may want to move heaven and Earth to improve, I always want to improve, doesn't mean I'm going to get a test call up is it for pure detirmination. A Keeper playing at International level should be able to keep well to spinners tbh. Even Geraint Jones in India kept fairly well against our Spinners, so Surely an Indian brought on up on those wickets should do a better job. There's a reason Gilly does'nt keep to two Spinners, because Australia don't usually play 2 Spinners, And they have in the past and he has done it very well so that just demolishes your arguement on that front.

He Might stay down low, Watch Keepers around the World, Staying down low is no longer taught as an nessersity because it us to the Keeper, staying down low has many factors around it, such as Height, I'm fairly sure that Dhoni is taller than Karthik therefore, Dhoni has to stay down lower because his upright body position would put his hands to high whereas it's the opposite with Karthik he gets up quicker so he is in a better position.

He has a good eye, I'm not disagreeing but thats what makes him such a good batsman because technically with the bat he isn't great as well but his eye gets him out of trouble most of the time.

Your claiming him to be the 2nd best keeper india has eve rproduced after less than 50 Test matches? What Stupidity, He's not even that assured of a place. It's a ridiculous statement, As a Keeper he's not the best around in the World in fact in my list he'd be very low down. Gilchrist, McCullum, Jayawordene {sp}, Read, Foster, Davies, Karthik, Ramdin, Taibu are all better.

Your arguement would stand up if you were arguing that his Batting is better than Karthiks but your not, your going on Keeping ability and technique and it's a completely misguided arguements because he's fairly average in both departments for international level.

In My Opinion your buying too much into the stardom surrounding essentially a very average player. He's been billed up as a hell of a lot better than he actually is.

I Think you have not watched karthick enough he was struggling in india and kumble the looks he was giving him i say he would have killed him if he had anather miss.Jones keeping in india was a disgrace you seem to know much about keeping by that comment.Gilly keeps to spinners who turn the ball he is great but he still does not keep on indian tracks to kumble


I think staying low down is the most important thing to spinners as if you jump as karthick does you are bound to miss edges.i think also staying low to kumble bowling at 100 km on indian tracks is pretty tough thats why i rate kamran akmal highly as he does the same job to afridi And you do not even mention him in your list.which itself after the first 3 is ridiculus the rest of the keepers you have named would struggle to keep a ball to kumble.

Hearing your comments about getting up quickly while keeping to spinners
i have my doubts about your keeping to spinners

And Mr Wicket Keeper please read my post i said after mongia he was the best to spinners whom kumble can trust .i would not rate mongia as the best indian keeper so dhoni is far away

Dhoni when he started did not dive but now he has started diving and as he is tall he runs and takes catches to his left and right which i think is safer
than diving what do you say mate? am i right

Also i think he may not look good to eyes but he does the job afterall you have to score runs and take catches which he has done pretty well so he may be average but everybody does not start as the best you get there by hardwork.but of all the keepers he has had a great start .

Whilst I agree with most of what you have said, I would like to point out that you have spelled this so wrong as to get a different player all together

I think you were looking for Sangakarra instead of Jayawardene

He was talking about new srilankan wicket keeper mate his name is also jayawardene

 

[woodywiss sa sa]

Staying down of course depends on height, It's absolutely obvious. Your just denying facts. NO I haven't watched Karthik in India, I don't get to see Indian Cricket because of where I live, But I have seen Dhoni around the World and You must have someone betteer than him, and I fyou don't then Im afraid your countries Cricketing state is in very poor condition.

I cannot believe you rate Kamran Akmal, He's the poorest on the Scene atm.
Jumble is effectively a slow Medium pacer, He doesn't turn it and he gets his wickets with Bounce, Having seen Gilchrist stand up to McGrath who gets more bounce than Kumble and moves it more than Kumble I would have no doubt that Gilchrist would find it Pissh even on India Wickets. You need to stop playing up How turning India wickets are, Yes they turn but Keepers who have been on tour there have gotten used to it, even if it has taken time, and Dhoni has had I would reckon over 15 years of Keeping on India wickets So He has No excuses. If Matt Prior can learn to pick and Keep to Mushtaq Ahmed in one session then Dhoni should be able to Keep comfortably to Kumble after 10+ test.

I meant Pyush Jayawardene, The Keeper who replaced Sangakarra for the NZ tests, He looks very good, technically superb.

 

[Amit89]

Dhoni is a star, but he is better suited for odi cricket. Karthik is a better keeper/batsmen then him, Karthik should be wicketkeeper for India in tests and should play purely as a batsmen in odis. Kathik has got a better technique and is more talented then Dhoni.

 

[Cricket_god]

Staying down of course depends on height, It's absolutely obvious. Your just denying facts. NO I haven't watched Karthik in India, I don't get to see Indian Cricket because of where I live, But I have seen Dhoni around the World and You must have someone betteer than him, and I fyou don't then Im afraid your countries Cricketing state is in very poor condition.

I cannot believe you rate Kamran Akmal, He's the poorest on the Scene atm.
Jumble is effectively a slow Medium pacer, He doesn't turn it and he gets his wickets with Bounce, Having seen Gilchrist stand up to McGrath who gets more bounce than Kumble and moves it more than Kumble I would have no doubt that Gilchrist would find it Pissh even on India Wickets. You need to stop playing up How turning India wickets are, Yes they turn but Keepers who have been on tour there have gotten used to it, even if it has taken time, and Dhoni has had I would reckon over 15 years of Keeping on India wickets So He has No excuses. If Matt Prior can learn to pick and Keep to Mushtaq Ahmed in one session then Dhoni should be able to Keep comfortably to Kumble after 10+ test.

I meant Pyush Jayawardene, The Keeper who replaced Sangakarra for the NZ tests, He looks very good, technically superb.

I think you just do not understand that staying low for a keeper like shortleg is important.mcgrath does not get the ball to bounce of good length
and kumble has ended career of saba karim.so please know your facts before posting.dhoni was a goal keeper before starting to play cricket at 18 so he has about 7 years not 15 years mate.

Dhoni is a star, but he is better suited for odi cricket. Karthik is a better keeper/batsmen then him, Karthik should be wicketkeeper for India in tests and should play purely as a batsmen in odis. Kathik has got a better technique and is more talented then Dhoni.

in india one good innings makes somebody a star after one failure a zero .

 

[ZoraxDoom]

Ok. I'm agreeing with Woody. Mainly cause I saw Mongia keep wicket, and Karthik is as good.
Kumble does get the odd one to spit, nearly took Karthik's head off twice in the 5th day of the last test match.
The thing is, Dhoni's technique is a bit unorthodox with the bat, but he has good hands and co-ordination. I would like him to stay in the ODI squad, but KKDs such a good little batsman. Has good shots, nice footwork, inventive and energetic. He, Kaif, Yuvi and Raina would be perfect for the middle overs. All busy batsmen who run well and are alert and creative. And all can play the big shots when needed too. Add Dhoni to the mix, let Viru and one of Uthappa/Parthiv or Gambhir open, get SS, Bhajji, Irfan and Munaf as bowlers, and it's a killer squad in the future...

 

[Cricket_god]

Ok. I'm agreeing with Woody. Mainly cause I saw Mongia keep wicket, and Karthik is as good.
Kumble does get the odd one to spit, nearly took Karthik's head off twice in the 5th day of the last test match.
The thing is, Dhoni's technique is a bit unorthodox with the bat, but he has good hands and co-ordination. I would like him to stay in the ODI squad, but KKDs such a good little batsman. Has good shots, nice footwork, inventive and energetic. He, Kaif, Yuvi and Raina would be perfect for the middle overs. All busy batsmen who run well and are alert and creative. And all can play the big shots when needed too. Add Dhoni to the mix, let Viru and one of Uthappa/Parthiv or Gambhir open, get SS, Bhajji, Irfan and Munaf as bowlers, and it's a killer squad in the future...

Are you saying karthik right now is as good as mongia?
Its our problem karthick got runs in one match and we forget that in odis he struggled and that i reserve my judgement on karthik till he performs consistently.