Nathan Hauritz role in the Australian test side. Should he really be playing?

[aussie1st]

But concentrating too much on his batting may make him focus less on bowling. We all know what happened to Irfan pathan's bowling when he was made to concentrate on his batting. He should be given more chances in shorter formats though as a specialist bowler who can also bat.

He doesn't need to do anything more on his batting really, its good enough as it is. Hes averaged nearly 80 in FC and I'm pretty sure he was working more on his bowling than his batting. Plus Watson focused on his batting more and now hes considered one of the best if not the best all rounder atm. His bowling has not suffered either, its actually become even better than it was before.

 

[drainpipe32]

The really funny thing is that he might be one of the best batsmen in the country, yet there's so little focus on his willow work.

I mean seriously, an average of 56 batting an number 6-8 Plus he bowls about 24 overs a game :S

 

[RoboRocks]

It'll be interesting to see who wins the race between Smith and Rashid for a place in their respective test teams. Both have shown abilty with bat and ball at various stages.

Smith would be the favorite since Australia's selectors seem to be backing Smith, while our selectors seem too scared to pick Rashid.

 

[TumTum]

It'll be interesting to see who wins the race between Smith and Rashid for a place in their respective test teams. Both have shown abilty with bat and ball at various stages.

Smith would be the favorite since Australia's selectors seem to be backing Smith, while our selectors seem too scared to pick Rashid.

Rashid is just another version of Monty.

 

[RoboRocks]

In what way?

 

[TumTum]

Explain how can a legspinner be another version of a SLA bowler?

Watched him bowl in the ODI series and he looks nothing special. Similar to Monty in that he is one dimensional.

 

[RoboRocks]

Watched him bowl in the ODI series and he looks nothing special. Similar to Monty in that he is one dimensional.

The one thing that Adil will need to learn is to develop, like Krezja has had to, is a defensive mind set.

The problem has been he's faced good opposition on some unhelpful surfaces and needs to given more time to develop and get used to what it's like to face test standard opposition.

He has the raw materials, decent leg-break, good googly, a topspinner and a slider. England just need to start showing a bit of faith, like Australia are doing with Smith.

 

[War]

I believe dismissals through the batsman underrating and/or attacking you are still valid (if not just as valid) in comparison to dismissals that come from something "special" (such as large amounts of drift and turn). As a finger spinner in particular, luring the batsman into underrating and/or attacking your bowling is probably how you're going to get a lot of your dismissals.

Agree to disagree here.

Yes its great if you can get a spinner who may not be great at all - but can get you wickets by drawing batsmen into a false sense of security. Paul Harris & Giles are perfect examples of this.

But what those two guys have over Hauritz quite clearly as i've mentioned before is that ability to be wicket-taking (take 5 wicket hauls) againts the best of oppositions on a 4th or 5th day wearing pitch. Which is the main job of a spinner in tests.

All Haurtiz has proven he can do in such circumstances is be accurate - but not wicket-taking. So basically at the end of the day Australia when trying to bowl out a side in the 4th innings will still have to depend mainly on the fast-bowlers to take the wickets - since Haurtiz is not doing his job.

It will be interesting to see how Hauritz goes against the best players of spin though.

He will die of that im sure of. Ross Taylor in gave us a sneak preview of what the Indians & Sri Lankan's would do to him.

War added 9 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

^Well I'll show you. Here's a rundown of a selection of spinners in the 3rd and 4th innings of a Test. You tell me who runs through what:
Warne: 129 innings, 359 wickets @ 22.85, 19x5fers
Murali: 99 innings, 339 wickets @ 20.89, 28x5fers
Swann: 14 innings, 37 wickets @ 29.91, 2x5fers
Harbhajan: 69 innings, 156 wickets @ 24.53, 10x5fers
Harris: 23 innings, 43 wickets @ 28.67, 1x5fer
Vettori: 74 innings, 127 wickets @ 36.01, 6x5fers
Shakib: 12 innings, 18 wickets @ 37.77, 1x5fer
Hauritz: 14 innings, 32 wickets @ 26.84, 2x5fers
Table: Spinners in 3rd and 4th innings since 1990

Harris, Vettori and Shakib are pretty ordinary dude. Sure those figures are just stats which never tell the whole story, but my eyes certainly don't see those 3 doing anything that Hauritz isn't doing either.

But anyway, I think we'll always disagree on this Just wanted to bring some facts to the table.

Well i did say Vettori has declined a bit in wicket-taking output in the 4th innings of late since his batting has taken off. But i can remember in the past Vettori taking 5 wicket hauls in the 4th innings vs Australia (probably twice in series between 2000-2004 but i could be slighly off here).

I remember Harris taking a 6 in 4th innings vs AUS in 2009. Plus a 5-wicket haul last december vs England on a wearing pitch (a 3rd day pitch that was playing like a 5th day pitch).

Sakib technically hasn't taken a 4th innings 5 for as yet. But he is clearly a better spinner than Haurtiz, so i'd expect him to correct that eventually.

So overall all 3 are definately more likely to be do more damage "againts quality opposition" in the 4th innings than Hauritz by far.

 

[War]

The lastest test should prove conclusively what i said @ the beginning of this thread. No doubts about Hauritz's ineffectiveness as a test match off-spinner should be around any longer hopefully.

 

[angryangy]

Yep. North is part of the best XI. Conclusive.

 

[War]

Yep. North is part of the best XI. Conclusive.

No both North & Hauritz should be dropped. Best AUS XI:

Watson
Hughes
Ponting
Katich
Clarke
Hussey
Haddin
Johnson
Harris/Siddle
Hilfenhaus
Bollinger

Will win AUS alot of tests.

 

[McLOVIN]

I can't believe he could get Ojha out. He bowled to Ojha right?

 

[sifter132]

How did I know this was gonna come up Since he's done pretty well generally up til now, and this is the toughest challenge a spinner can have I think he deserves another Test match before I start judging him as a complete failure. Besides, I haven't seen any other Aussies SPINNER that can outbowl him at present.

And I don't like War's 5 fast bowler theory (since Watson is your all-rounder), so my favoured XI is always going to have the best possible spinner...at present that's still Hauritz. That said, if Smith could bowl with a lot of control, I wouldn't be against having him and 4 quicks. But I think we need a spinner who can bowl 10-15 overs a day minimum at a decent level, I'm not sure that's Smith just yet.

 

[lethalhughes]

I watched Cullen Bailey in the champions league and he just remind everyone how awful he is.The spin cup board is really bare and Hauritz is the best option by a mile.McGain is too old,Krejza isn't good enough,Smith isn't a front line spinner and he may very well never be one.The most promising leggie/spinner in australia is Cameron Boyce and he has just started his domestic career.

 

[shravi]

I wouldn't drop him. He's done well so far and certainly hasn't done his reputation any harm. He was always expected to struggle in India vs India as most spinners are. Sure, he had a bad test but even Warne and Murali didn't fare too well in India. He's not in the same league as those two but it just goes to show what an intimidating place India can be to tour for spinners. He's a useful bowler to have outside the subcontinent and he hasn't done much wrong as of yet.