Pakistan in South Africa

[aditya123]

Jeez, the obsession with pace that some Pakistan fans have is hilarious. You'd think that all a fast bowler needs is pace. Look at Sami, he has pace and nothing else and is average at best.

That is what I was trying to convey and noone seems to understand that.
Just bowling fast will never cause problems to quality batsmen.

But I agree that Pakistan do have a good chance in SA looking at the form SA are in at the moment, especially their top order who cannot buy a run.

 

[Pak_cricketer]

Pace is a valuable thing. Just cause England don't have much of it, doesn't mean that it is useless. I'm just saying that Sami is best when he bowls with pace.. If Bob wants Line and lenght he can go to average medium bowlers.

Aditya: So you don't consider tendulkar to be quality?

 

[evertonfan]

Pace is a valuable thing. Just cause England don't have much of it, doesn't mean that it is useless. I'm just saying that Sami is best when he bowls with pace.. If Bob wants Line and lenght he can go to average medium bowlers.

Aditya: So you don't consider tendulkar to be quality?

If you can find any of my posts where i've called pace useless then i'll give you a million coronas. Have you even noticed that Sami can't even buy a wicket since he's been bowling at full pelt?

England no pace? Must have been sleeping whenever Flintoff, Harmison and Mahmood have been playing.

 

[Pak_cricketer]

Mahmood is not as good as Sami... On Pakistani Wickets, Pace is useful.. Tell me, what is Harmison and Flintoff's pace? Gul bowls around 87-88 Mph, yet he isn't considered to be "Fast". Being "Fast" must mean that you must have pace.. I agree when you said that pace isn't everything for a fast bowler. Mcgrath and Pollock are fine examples. But Pakistan has a history of Fast bowlers, that were pretty successful.. Waqar had extreme pace. You would always see him going for tons of runs, but his job was to get Imran wickets. He would bowl aggressive lines (Yorkers, Bouncers). Sami has the pace, but the way that Woolmer has treated him is not correct. You can't just tell that kind of a bowler to shorten his run-up, when he has taken a hat-trick. That will make him lose his speed, and rhythm. When I first saw Sami, I saw him as another Shoaib, It was the Shoaib and Sami Attack.. A few years later, we saw the new Sami, the shortened run-up, average pace, and no swing Sami. Then I saw him in the West Indies, raring in, bowling 91-92 Mph once again. Making the great Lara jumps and miss the ball, I knew that the Sami I knew is coming back...

 

[evertonfan]

Just because Sami's got a hat-trick that means he should bowl as fast as he can? Hoggard, McGrath, Harmison, Cork, Taylor, Pathan and Lee have also taken hat-tricks and yet most of those don't bowl rapidly at all.

 

[Pak_cricketer]

Just because Sami's got a hat-trick that means he should bowl as fast as he can? Hoggard, McGrath, Harmison, Cork, Taylor, Pathan and Lee have also taken hat-tricks and yet most of those don't bowl rapidly at all.

Sami is nothing without pace, the guy has no real swing, and no real Pace. I can show you clips of his bowling from before, and trust me you would want to see that Sami again.

 

[Dare]

most of Samis wickets that i saw came at 87-88mph and that goes for Gul too, but Sami is still young and i hope that he can come back and be respectable again, its a shame to see such a talent go to waste because of a coaching change but with Pakistans endless pace its not a big loss for them. the problem for him is that right now hes 5th in the pecking roder for Pakistan with Asif,Akhtar,Gul,Rana being infront of him. also i think that Asif will have a better SAF tour than Akhtar because of his ability to move the ball a great deal and look at Zaheer, not the fastest bowler but he bowls inteligently and swings the ball around. all in all it will be a great series to watch with both squads having great bowling atacks but i have to give the edge to Pakistan in the batting compartment and also spin may make a big diference as south africa is basicly spinless.

 

[aditya123]

Pace is a valuable thing. Just cause England don't have much of it, doesn't mean that it is useless. I'm just saying that Sami is best when he bowls with pace.. If Bob wants Line and lenght he can go to average medium bowlers.

Aditya: So you don't consider tendulkar to be quality?

From where did Tendulkar enter this discussion ?
I thought he was a decent batsman and not a fast bowler.

We never denied the fact that pace is useful.
All Iam saying is that pace without movement is easy meat for most quality batsmen as Sami`s test stats would show.
It indicates that he cannot buy a wicket in test cricket which is the benchmark for quick bowlers .
His record is worse than the much `slower` Irfan Pathan , Zaheer Khan or even Ajit Agarkar.

Do not point me to his ODI stats because you tend to get some easy wickets in ODIs and that is why the bowling average of even someone like Agarkar is 27 !

PACE IS IMPORTANT, but it is the movement that earns you wickets most of the times.
Pace, though is definitely an asset.

All you guys seem to suggest that a fast-bowler is good only if he bowls at 90mph or a spinner is good only if h spins it a mile.
If that is th case , how do you explain Glen Mcgrath`s success and Anil Kumble`s success , both of whom have more than 800 international wickets.

As for the current Pakistani bowling attack, it is nowhere close to the ones you had in the 90s and till the 2003 WC .
Shoaib was doubly lethal when he played alongside Wasim and Waqar but now he is`nt half as lethal
I cannot remember him causing much trouble to our batsmen at least , in recent times.

 

[Dare]

were just gona have to wait and see what happens when pakistan goes to SAF.

 

[aussie1st]

From where did Tendulkar enter this discussion ?
I thought he was a decent batsman and not a fast bowler.

We never denied the fact that pace is useful.
All Iam saying is that pace without movement is easy meat for most quality batsmen as Sami`s test stats would show.
It indicates that he cannot buy a wicket in test cricket which is the benchmark for quick bowlers .
His record is worse than the much `slower` Irfan Pathan , Zaheer Khan or even Ajit Agarkar.

Do not point me to his ODI stats because you tend to get some easy wickets in ODIs and that is why the bowling average of even someone like Agarkar is 27 !

PACE IS IMPORTANT, but it is the movement that earns you wickets most of the times.
Pace, though is definitely an asset.

All you guys seem to suggest that a fast-bowler is good only if he bowls at 90mph or a spinner is good only if h spins it a mile.
If that is th case , how do you explain Glen Mcgrath`s success and Anil Kumble`s success , both of whom have more than 800 international wickets.

As for the current Pakistani bowling attack, it is nowhere close to the ones you had in the 90s and till the 2003 WC .
Shoaib was doubly lethal when he played alongside Wasim and Waqar but now he is`nt half as lethal
I cannot remember him causing much trouble to our batsmen at least , in recent times.

Totally agree here, pace is good but if you can do anything with it then it can be a bad thing cause all the batsmen need to do is touch it and it's away to the fence. Swing and reverse swing is just as important as pace. If you combine those two then you will have a good bowler in the making if he can get it right.

 

[Pak_cricketer]

From where did Tendulkar enter this discussion ?
I thought he was a decent batsman and not a fast bowler.

Read your Previous post, where you said that fast bowling will never cause quality batsmen problems.

We never denied the fact that pace is useful.
All Iam saying is that pace without movement is easy meat for most quality batsmen as Sami`s test stats would show.
It indicates that he cannot buy a wicket in test cricket which is the benchmark for quick bowlers .
His record is worse than the much `slower` Irfan Pathan , Zaheer Khan or even Ajit Agarkar.

Do not point me to his ODI stats because you tend to get some easy wickets in ODIs and that is why the bowling average of even someone like Agarkar is 27 !

Easy wickets? Sami had NO LUCK WHATSOEVER! Ask any pakistani on this forum that saw him play, he had so many dropped catches from the slips, and even the keeper.

PACE IS IMPORTANT, but it is the movement that earns you wickets most of the times.
Pace, though is definitely an asset.

Thank god you agree! Pace is an Important asset, but it is just one of the ways that a bowler gets a wicket.

 

[ZexyZahid]

If you got Asif, Akhtar, Gul, Rana, Nazir and Shabbir Ahmed, what do you want with Sami?

Anyway South Africa has faced the downside of making their pitches fast by losing the first Test match against India. Hopefully they will think about changing it, since I reckon these bowlers will really exploit it.

 

[Pak_cricketer]

You know how consistent our bowlers are of getting injured, I'm just saying that If you change the bowler in little ways his bowling changes in many ways. I don't know weather we'll see Shabbir again.. Gul is fabulous at this time.

 

[Gunner786]

acually im surprised you guys didnt know this

sami is one of the best reversers in the team

he reverses it alot more than gul or shoaib you know

remember when he had ian bell in knots when he was bowling from full run up and full pace?
think it was the 3rd test or 2nd test

bell was making gul and nazir look ordinary

and after about 5 balls of terrifying bell

kamran akmal dropped a catch bell offered when he was sheerly beaten for pace

 

[puddleduck]

You talking about this series Gambino? -

Name______________Mat___O_____M___R___W__Ave__Best__5_10_SR__Econ
Mohammad Sami______3___109.3__15__466__8__58.25_3-100_-__-_82.1_4.25

The only person who should be terrified looking at that is a Pakistan fan!