Ravinder Jadeja & Yusuf Pathan

[macintosh]

So what should we do? Select players like Rahane and Pandey. And you're post only indicates that Dhoni is the reason behind selections. And have you seen Aniruddha play? He performs very good for Tamil Nadu. Stats are not everything. Even Tom Cooper has a batting average higher than Sachin, so is he better than Sachin?

Ok, lets count the pacers who are all ahead of Irfan. Zaheer, Praveen, Munaf, Nehra, Ishant, Sreesanth. Then developers Vinay Kumar, Mithun, Dinda, Unadkat, Umesh Yadav etc. So you expect Irfan to grab a spot ahead of them? Only his batting has improved. And again why do India need another batsman?

Ashwin has better bowling stats than Ojha if I come your way. And after 2008, No spinner was good enough to replace Harbhajan. The reason why he was still bowling. And also he was decent at that time enough. But now Ashwin has constantly proved himself better than Ojha. You speak as if Ojha is bowling better than Ashwin now?

And Nehra was selected due to the lack of bowling options at that time. But he has performed really well enough at the opportunity given to him. In the Champions Trophy, Nehra was the only player of India who performed good. So Nehra is terrible?

Also players who still have their potential to be fulfilled will be sent on foreign tours, not the ones already proved well enough.

So what is your point too? When you complain that a player itself is not given the chance to blend in the team, how do you expect the whole team to blend if you select all the guys you mentioned? And who will lead them?

I count only 7 good innings in your mentioned 20 innings of Karthik. And Pathan is now not the same old player. He has lost his fitness, durability like Joe Cole of soccer.

You're counting Yusuf simply because of 3 or 4 inning winning matches. Raina has done that on a more consistent basis. Raina has scored more runs than Yusuf in T20 even though Raina and Yusuf have nearly played the same amount of matches.

30 Wickets hardly justify an all-rounder and he has scored only 1294 runs, Raina has 1813 runs, a lot more than Yusuf's. Also you cannot compare their bowling because Raina is a batsman. Understand that.

Also Jaffer cannot play now, the bowlers will eat him.

All your comments are baseless,

you are just simply trying to stretch the topic as you have no answer to certain things,

How can a Abhinav Mukund get selected ahead of Ajinkya Rahane when Rahane has a way better average and more centuries than Mukund in FC cricket?

And Anirudha Shrikant is a good player, but there are so many batsmen who are way ahead of him. He clearly got in the team because of his father. He does not have anything so special that he can be selected on the basis of talent keeping the stats aside. He has just played 23 FC matches and has not done so well in those matches to get selected in the emerging players tournament. There are players who are way better than him.

And I have never said that you should select players on stats alone, there are lot of other things to be considered while selection and I have already mentioned them in my previous posts. You are just trying to twist my words because you have no answers.

And you don't compare Irfan Pathan to Ashish Nehra or Sreesanth or other young bowlers you have mentioned as Irfan has already proven himself at the International level in both tests and One dayers. Ashish Nehra has never even been good enough to play the tests. Sreesanth's is a good bowler, but even he has been out of form many times and has got chances after being dropped just on the base of his talent.
And Irfan Pathan is even an added advantage with his bat, his competition is not with Nehra or Sree or any other bowlers, as he is not just a bowler, he is an allrounder, he is the only answer to India's bowling problems as he can be the number 5 bowler and number 7 batsman.
I would like to say again that even Wasim Akram and Ravi Shastri recommend this for India because of their bowling issues.

Ojha is much better than Ashwin, he played most of his matches against Sri Lanka and has performed well despite of that. Ojha got into the team after strong domestic and IPL performances, he played well in the difficult opportunities he has got. There was no reason to pick Ashwin ahead of him in the first place as he was performing well.

Nehra was selected because of lack of bowling options? this is a lame reason you are giving, please do some research about how many options India had at that time, he did well when he made a comeback in 1 or 2 series,but then just went down and down even though he repeatedly got chances, he kept on getting chances even though his performances were not good enough. His economy rate was also very bad .

I have never said that you keep changing the team, Vijay, Mukund, Ashwin, etc. should not have been selected at the first place as there were already better players available with more international exposure and better talent who shouldn't have been dropped,
Dravid should not have been dropped, Ojha should not have been dropped after the international exposure he had got in tests and ODIs when he was doing well,he definitely deserved a longer run, Uthappa should have been given better chances, there are many such things which go against your 'team blending' thing as there were constant changes in the team for no reason. And I am a huge supporter of selecting the best 15 and blending the team, but that has never ever happened under Dhoni.

And i dont knw what are you arguing on Karthik for, he had performed so consistently in those innings and you are just ignoring it because you have been proven wrong.

Pathan has lost his fitness? is that a joke or something? he is fully fit, please don't make up things.

And Pathan bats at number 7, even in IPL he comes low down the order,he played in the top order only in his first IPL season. Raina comes in early and has a lot more time to settle and play his strokes, even Raina has an average of 23 at number 7.

Yusuf scoring 1294 runs with 32 wickets is an achievement in IPL as he is the only one to do it.
And he has scored those runs even though he has batted a lot low in the order,
Raina comes in much earlier than him.

Make Raina bat at number 7 and see how many runs can he score in ODIs.

And there is no comparison of their bowling as Yusuf is much better in that.
And you read all the recent posts, there was an arguement that Raina bowls as good as Pathan, that's why I was justifying it, you are joining the debate even without having proper knowledge about it.

And there is no comparison anyways between Raina and Yusuf, they are both different kinds of players. It was just Yusuf getting dropped from the world cup from nowhere which was the main issue here.

And what you mean by bowlers will eat Jaffer? He is much more established player than Mukund or Vijay in FC cricket. He also has his international experience to add to it. Jaffer and Rahane are way ahead of Mukund and Vijay for the test selection.

You are just passing silly comments.

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You really don't have proper facts to backup your arguements,
like i said, the debate is over long back, you people are just trying to stretch it as you are proven wrong,
Please continue...

 

[Aussie Team]

This is getting to be too much.

 

[SLICKR392]

I don't recall any such match wherein Yusuf Pathan has performed for India.

India vs NZ 4th ODI

 

[Bevab]

Jaffer is past his peak. You cannot expect players past their peak to perform. And its you who is going into circles. Even averages prove that Ashwin is better than Ojha. So what more proof you want?

And don't joke okay. Mukund was in pole position to get a test chance because I myself know how good he is. Better than Rahane. At times stats help you, at times not. Mukund has hit a triple-century, has Rahane?

And also Rahane is in the Emerging Players squad. So if he performs well, he'll get selected. Pandey too is there. And if you talk about the need for a top-order batsman, why did not Rayudu get a chance despite proving himself more than the others. And Rahul Sharma is also in the Emerging tournament squad.

Aniruddha is a special talent, I know that. Just wait until he proves you wrong. Even if Rahane performs well he'll get a national call-up.

Yusuf Pathan was axed simply because he was told to prove himself on the domestic stage much more. Its like how Broad was dropped from the test squad of England to prove himself. And Yusuf played in the 3rd position for the Rajasthan Royals in the first 3 editions of IPL.

Irfan Pathan has lost his peak time. I do wish he gets a chance but still India don't need a medium pacer like him. His speed has reduced. There are already several medium-fast/fast-medium bowlers in the Indian squad.

You are the one who is extending the topic. And on top of it, indirectly posting racist comments.

 

[macintosh]

Jaffer is past his peak. You cannot expect players past their peak to perform.

Again a baseless statement
You see how he has performed in the previous domestic seasons, even right now, he is having a good form in FC matches, add to it he also has international experience. India needs a temporary replacement in case of Sehwag and Gambhir's injury, Wasim Jaffer fits best in that case. Don't just say anything, he is still as consistent as he was before in domestic cricket.

And don't joke okay. Mukund was in pole position to get a test chance because I myself know how good he is. Better than Rahane. At times stats help you, at times not. Mukund has hit a triple-century, has Rahane?

How can Mukund be in a pole position for tests when there are already two guys who have been performing way better than him? How can you say he is better than Rahane? Just because he has a triple century doesnt mean that he is better than Rahane. Even Jaffer has triple centuries in domestic cricket.

Rahane has been the most consistent in domestic FC matches, he is definitely better than Mukund.

And if you talk about the need for a top-order batsman, why did not Rayudu get a chance despite proving himself more than the others.

Ask Dhoni, not me. He and selectors have anyways opted for players like Mukund, Vijay,etc despite of having better options.

Aniruddha is a special talent, I know that. Just wait until he proves you wrong. Even if Rahane performs well he'll get a national call-up.

Aniruddha is a special talent? And why should Rahane perform well to get a national call up? He has anyways performed more than Mukund or Vijay or any other Dhoni favourite to get a Test call.

Yusuf Pathan was axed simply because he was told to prove himself on the domestic stage much more. Its like how Broad was dropped from the test squad of England to prove himself. And Yusuf played in the 3rd position for the Rajasthan Royals in the first 3 editions of IPL.

Yusuf has nothing to prove in domestic cricket, he was dropped just to get Raina back in the team. And don't just make up things, who told yusuf to 'prove himself at the domestic level'?
Yusuf played in the top order for Rajasthan only in the first season, otherwise he played as a floater, batted mostly in lower order.
And despite of such an attacking approach in his batting,he has managed to score so many runs and has also picked vital wickets.
He has 11 man of the matches in IPL man, isn't it enough to prove that he is the most valued player in IPL?

Irfan Pathan has lost his peak time. I do wish he gets a chance but still India don't need a medium pacer like him. His speed has reduced. There are already several medium-fast/fast-medium bowlers in the Indian squad.

He has lost his peak? what you mean? and his competition is not with the bowlers as he is an allrounder. India is facing a huge problem in the bowling department, the only solution to it is Irfan Pathan as he is fully fit and has got his rhythm back, and he can be an asset on foreign tours where India do badly because of his swing and handy batting in the lower order.

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All you are doing is stretching the topic, most of your comments are baseless,
And i think now you will send another user on your behalf to extend the debate, this has been happening throughout this debate, i m up for it,please continue...

You people are just trying to draw everyone's attention on other topics and trying to hide the fact that Dhoni plays politics and tries to give special treatment to players which he likes, it is clearly been proven how different players get different types of treatment in the team, you are not accepting the fact and passing baseless comments from long

 

[Bevab]

Who is stretching the topic? You asked for the reasons why he was dropped, I gave stats and showed you well enough. And although the selectors are picking weirdly, I still feel they are doing a decent enough job. And what do you mean by special treatment?

I gave several stats, but you are only giving random positions where the players played and then you say that he should be selected. Do you know the problems of raising Jaffer? You say Pandey should be selected because he faced quality bowlers, and Jaffer should also be selected despite not having faced quality bowlers for 2 years. Can you forget IPL? You talk asif IPL can be used to pick squads for Tests and ODIs. Don't just pop up and say "I never said like that".

And I again ask, what is special treatment? Explain. And Dhoni is not the selector. Don't behave like a mad guy. You seem to be a conspirat.


And debate properly, with better stats. Don't just say "Hey, Dhoni is selecting him, he is giving all-round treats".

Is special treatment sharing food and water with the favourites?

 

[macintosh]

Who is stretching the topic? You asked for the reasons why he was dropped, I gave stats and showed you well enough. And although the selectors are picking weirdly, I still feel they are doing a decent enough job. And what do you mean by special treatment?

I gave several stats, but you are only giving random positions where the players played and then you say that he should be selected. Do you know the problems of raising Jaffer? You say Pandey should be selected because he faced quality bowlers, and Jaffer should also be selected despite not having faced quality bowlers for 2 years. Can you forget IPL? You talk asif IPL can be used to pick squads for Tests and ODIs. Don't just pop up and say "I never said like that".

And I again ask, what is special treatment? Explain. And Dhoni is not the selector. Don't behave like a mad guy. You seem to be a conspirat.


And debate properly, with better stats. Don't just say "Hey, Dhoni is selecting him, he is giving all-round treats".

Read the whole post and see who is coming up with stats and facts and who is using mere words to prove his point, you are just trying to pickup some points and place emphasis on it on a negative way and not the reasons behind it.

I have proved you wrong on Dinesh karthik's matter (showed his record with proper stats),
on Uthappa's issue (showed you his constant shuffling in batting order with the batting positions and the huge difference in his batting under Dravid and Dhoni)
on Yusuf's career (Read what experts say in sports columns, even Kiran More has lashed out at the current management and captain for not handling him well)
I also gave reasons to why Jaffer should be picked ahead of Mukund with facts, and if not Jaffer then why Rahane should be picked.
Clearly proved all the facts about Ojha's career and the reason why he should have not been dropped.(played 13 out of his 16 ODIs and 5 out of his 11 tests against Srilanka and performed well but was still dropped.)

And there is no reason to prove why Dhoni has the upper hand in the selection Even in the current series, RP Singh is selected from nowhere after Zaheer's injury, RP Singh has not had a very good time in domestic cricket, you can't select him saying that he played well in Last England tour, that way even Karthik played well there in tests.

It will be really funny to see how you justify RP Singh's selection over others...
because you are the same person who has justified Anirudha's selection in emerging players tournament, again that was just with mere words...

And what do i say about Dravid, I felt so good when Dravid gave it back to Dhoni, He told that he never thought he should be out of the ODIs, also announced his retirement, good that he is retiring, otherwise they would have again started begging in front of Dravid in difficult situations in the next foreign tour.

 

[Bevab]

What is special treatment?!

In cricket you have to perform at whatever position you are to get chances. Its not like soccer. Uthappa might need a call-up but Karthik, no!

Can you please see domestic stats of Ojha and Ashwin?

Lets see what areas have been covered. I proved you wrong with pure solid averages, and also several other points. What have you been saying? Posting smileys, saying Dhoni has an upper hand in selection, only giving the batting positions.

When did you show Karthik's record with proper stats? Please link me to that post.

And you yourself have edited your post. That shows how poor your cricket knowledge is. And what if experts lash out or not? Their main duty is to comment without thoughts, with several being bribed.

So you yourself admit Dhoni does not have the upper hand in selection? That is good. And Rahane is not an opener. And what do you mean by facts? Link me to that glorious post.

 

[macintosh]

What is special treatment?!

Like Harbhajan get chances even though he contributes very less, just check his record for previous 80 matches. Same with Nehra, got ample of opportunities, unlike others who are axed just for 1 bad series.
Raina gets to bowl to poor tailenders to prove himself as an allrounder and get selected ahead of Yuvraj in tests. RP Singh getting selected for England tour despite of not so great show in domestic cricket recently
Vijay and Mukund getting selected ahead of the players like Rahane and Jaffer.
Raina been selected as the captain ahead of Yuvraj, Ashwin is preferred over Ojha,etc. etc. etc....

In cricket you have to perform at whatever position you are to get chances. Its not like soccer. Uthappa might need a call-up but Karthik, no!

Oh really? then why are the players given a specific role? like an opener, middle order batsmen, lower order batsmen, etc. You cannot just send a batsmen anywhere and expect him to perform. Even if u want him you can either shuffle him within the top order or the middle order. You cannot make him bat anywhere from number 1 to 7.

And talking about special treatment, i wil again ask you, if a batsmen can bat anywhere, then why was Murali Vijay shuffled up and down the order? he got proper opening chances. Would have loved to see what he can do if he would have batted at number 7.

Can you please see domestic stats of Ojha and Ashwin?

Yap, Ojha has 201 wickets in 50 FC matches, Ashwin has 134 wickets in 34 matches,
add to Ojha's performance,
he has played 13 of his 16 ODIs against Sri Lanka,who are are great players of spin, and has yet managed to pick 20 wickets at an economy of 4.3.
He has also played 11 tests, out which 5 were against Sri Lanka,
but still picked 42 wickets.

Again talking about special treatment, what has Ashwin done to get preferred ahead of Ojha?

Lets see what areas have been covered. I proved you wrong with pure solid averages, and also several other points.

You have provided hardly any stats and facts to your points.
I have backep up all my points with stats and reasons, you have used plain words in most of the cases.

Dhoni has an upper hand in selection

Obviously, look at the recent selection of RP Singh aswell he hardly has managed to have an impact in recent times even in the domestic arena.

nly giving the batting positions.

I have provided a lot of other things rather than just batting positions, I have clearly shown a lot of stats with those things.

When did you show Karthik's record with proper stats? Please link me to that post.

I showed you his previous 20 innings before he had 1 bad series,
he had provided India with 11 good starts out of those 20 innings despite of getting his chances in bits and pieces.

And you yourself have edited your post. That shows how poor your cricket knowledge is.

I edit my posts to add more things in it, what does it have to do with cricketing knowledge

And what if experts lash out or not? Their main duty is to comment without thoughts, with several being bribed.

What? now you are trying to prove even the experienced cricketers wrong who have in depth knowledge?
And what you mean by 'they are bribed'? please, who has the power to bribe them against the BCCI

So you yourself admit Dhoni does not have the upper hand in selection?

When did i say that? I know you just want to stretch the topic because you cannot accept defeat, but atleast say something that makes sense

And Rahane is not an opener.

Rahane plays at number 3 and also opens the batting, And he has opened a lot of times, even in the emerging players tournament, he has opened the innings a few times both in tests and ODIs. And please don't start that specialist opener debate again, because Rahane has batted as both an opener and a number 3 batsmen, and number 3 batsmen usually have the capabilities of an opener as a lot of time they come in to bat in the 1st or 2nd over when an early wicket falls, see how Dravid can open in tests.

And I guess right now, India needs a temporary opener who can replace Sehwag or Gambhir when they are injured. Jaffer is the best person for that role,
If not Jaffer, then Rahane is the other option,
and over it, Dinesh Karthik has a very good record playing in England as an opener. Then where does Mukund come in the picture?
He is talented but needs some time, because Sehwag and Gambhir are our regular openers and will continue for the next few years, if Mukund fails at this point it will get very difficult for him to regain his place. In that case Jaffer is perfect because he has just 2 3 years of cricket left in him now, and even Rahane because he whether he clicks or fails, he will get a chance in our middle order as most of our middle order players like Dravid, Laxman and Sachin will play 2 years of test cricket at the most.

Link me to that glorious post.

Please read all the pages of this thread properly, here are enough stats and proper facts provided.

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This is getting very funny now,
despite of providing hardly any facts, you say that you have provided stats,
you are just using mere words to prove your point, and trying to twist my words to stretch the topic.

I have no problem, you can keep on posting silly things, people will read the whole post and understand the story..

 

[Bevab]

I said link me!

Who should have replaced Harbhajan during 2008's?

Yuvraj is getting old, and Raina has lots of potential. Also how long do you expect Yuvraj to lead the side? A new captain has to be groomed.

And there is no reason to prove why Dhoni has the upper hand in the selection

What is the meaning of this post?!

You can enjoy your useless victory, I'm not bothered to reply to fools like you. And its human to err. And also you think BCCI is the only board which has money to bribe? And also read news. BCCI bribed a few cricketers to support them everytime, and also to speak against them a sometimes.

Ashwin can bat, can Ojha do? Ashwin's average is better than Ojha, don't try to hide that fact. Karthik is currently terrible at FC area. And scoring 20 and 30 won't help. Nehra bowled very good in the Champions Trophy. I think you don't even know what is the Champions Trophy.


You just spin circles and hurl smileys, and post like a granny. And also you are the worst member on debating I came across. You can enjoy your meaningless and useless victory, I can't be bothered to debate against fools like you.

 

[macintosh]

Who should have replaced Harbhajan during 2008's?

Mishra, Ojha, Murali Karthik, etc.
they could have replaced him in 2009 or 2010 also,thats when he really went down and out.

Yuvraj is getting old, and Raina has lots of potential. Also how long do you expect Yuvraj to lead the side? A new captain has to be groomed.

That's a very lame reason, Gambhir is the first choice captain when Dhoni is not there, that way even Gambhir is old, then why does he get to be the captain,
Gambhir deserves to be the captain in case of Dhoni's absence, and when both of them are not available it should be Yuvraj. And if you want a youngster its Virat Kohli as he is much more consistent then Raina in ODIs and has also been the U-19 captain.

What is the meaning of this post?!

RP Singh gets selected even though he has not played a FC game since last 6 months and his fitness is just gone. Latest example.
Harbhajan in the team despite of being out of form in 80 ODIs, the selectors have even dropped Yuvraj once, then why not Harbhajan?
How many times do i need to explain things all over again.
You even said Rahane is not an opener, look how he has scored in the emerging players tournamnt aswell and yet Mukund was chosen over him. Rahane has much better technique, and for the temporary opener's role its Jaffer.
Vijay getting selected when he is not even ready for the international level.
Irfan Pathan doesn't get a chance for his experience and even though he has proved himself in all formats, But RP Singh can get a chance even though he hasn't played a FC game since past six months and has lost his fitness.
what can we makeout out of this?

there are so many weird selections, and besides everybody knows about Dhoni's and Shrikanth's relations, they are both associated with CSK team aswell.

BCCI bribed a few cricketers to support them everytime, and also to speak against them a sometimes.

You better think before you say something, just because a couple of commentators are being doubted, you don't start associating everyone with them. Please don't disrespect them just because their comments prove your points wrong.

Nasser Hussain in his commentary, said, Harbhajan Singh would be still batting if the DRS was there in full. And he proceeded to launch an attack on BCCI, IPL and other evil ways of Indian cricket.

Ravi Shastri is there to offer the point of India, what is he supposed to do? Agree wholeheartedly to the tirade of everyone? He did what was expected of him. Ravi Shastri explained the Indian view point and the concerns of Indian players. Sachin, and Dhoni have strong views on DRS. They are also mouth pieces of BCCI ? Do you think Botham will keep quiet if Ian Chappell says something uncharitable about English cricket ?

All Ravi said was, don’t take potshots at India, using the handle of DRS. If a captain makes two wrong referrals in the first over of a match, the DRS and technology will be come meaningless. The technology will still be there, and the howlers, which the DRS is supposed to eliminate, will be there too. This is what Ravi Shastri was articulating. And he did a good job of it.

Till date, I have not heard one lopsided view or biased comment from either Ravi Shastri or Gavaskar that would indicate that they have been ‘bought’. I am yet to hear one slip from them to indicate that their credibility is at stake.

When India wins, cricket experts were lamenting, how Indian board is dominating the world cricket using the India’s ascendancy. When India is losing, everyone is having a go, hinting at the wicked IPL and BCCI and the greedy, selfish cricketers.

Sometime back, TimesNow ran a smear campaign on Gavaskar’s links with Modi. And now comes this story from TOI, Ravi Shastri and Gavaskar are in the payroll of BCCI as if it is some kind of mafia.

Ashwin can bat, can Ojha do? Ashwin's average is better than Ojha, don't try to hide that fact.

Ojha's FC bowling average is of 29.79 and Ashwin's average is 28.72, its not a huge difference i guess, and secondly, Ojha has played more number of matches and taken more wickets and also has international experience of both tests and ODIs that too being most of his matches against Sri Lanka who are the best players of spinners currently. He did well enough in ODIs and Tests to stay in the side for a longer term.

And why do you have to consider the batting? we anyways go with 7 batsmen and Praveen and Zaheer are also good with the bat. You cannot decide on the base of batting as you are not looking for an allrounder.

Nehra bowled very good in the Champions Trophy.

Read my comments again, I said he did well in the first couple of series and just went out of form then. He did well in the Champions trophy and the next series, but what did he do after that?

You are just proved wrong all the time, once that happens, you just go in some other direction and then again try to debate on that all over again.
Just for once you keep regionalism and favouritism and think yourself.

Karthik is currently terrible at FC area.

Then RP Singh has not even played FC cricket in the last 6 months, how does he get selected?
And don't say that its because he performed well in England, that way even d. Karthik has a good record in England.

I can't be bothered to debate against fools like you.

I knew you would use a trick like this to escape, because you have no anwers to certain things.
You can continue to argue with regionalism and favouritism,
I will continue to argue for deserving cricketers.