Russia 122 for 2 at Lunch

[blockerdave]

I would have rhythm as a fixed setting in-game, while confidence would be the attribute that would vary according to performance and in turn would be what affected the things you have mentioned, as well as pace, accuracy, swing, turn, etc. A player with a low rhythm attribute would bowl more poor deliveries and extras due to confidence taking longer to increase.

I would surely think rhythm would be something, in bowling terms, that would affect consistency in terms of accuracy ball to ball. that is it would determine a repeatable action and able to land the ball well time after time.

But it would be dynamic and be affected by form/confidence.

So a rhythm would I think modify the accuracy attribute, and the effects of rhythm would multiply or diminish with confidence/form[DOUBLEPOST=1444235114][/DOUBLEPOST]

@blockerdave : Does the attributes and skills in RLL3 does what it says or that is also behaving the same way like DBC??

No idea I've not played it I just saw the picture on the steam page.

I'm trying to decide if I can justify 34.99 on pretend rugby. (By which I mean rugby league isn't real rugby, not a game. If it was Union I'd have bought it!)

 

[cooks1st100]

I would surely think rhythm would be something, in bowling terms, that would affect consistency in terms of accuracy ball to ball. that is it would determine a repeatable action and able to land the ball well time after time.

But it would be dynamic and be affected by form/confidence.

So a rhythm would I think modify the accuracy attribute, and the effects of rhythm would multiply or diminish with confidence/form

Well yeah I guess so as bowlers do gain and lose rhythm. I was just trying not to complicate things too much.

My original idea with rhythm was that it would have been connected somehow to our input while bowling. The easiest way to explain that is using the current spin bowling control as the example. Consistently rotating it smoothly would see an increase in the rhythm attribute which would therefore lead to better accuracy etc. But I'm not sure how it could be incorporated into the seam bowling input.

 

[Markkkkk]

Rhythm could be in pace bowling as a factor that influences how well the bowler bowls. The more a bowler relies on rhythm the worse he will do if his run up is wrong or cant get into his rhythm. Happens in real life.

 

[cooks1st100]

Rhythm could be in pace bowling as a factor that influences how well the bowler bowls. The more a bowler relies on rhythm the worse he will do if his run up is wrong or cant get into his rhythm. Happens in real life.

I think you've missed my point, which was how to have it work with the human input to bowl. With spin it's a case of rotating the RHS, so that could cross over quite well in my opinion but with the seam bowling it's just a case of pulling the RHS back then pushing it forward. I guess it could be linked to landing the front foot consistently on the line?

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

I think you've missed my point, which was how to have it work with the human input to bowl. With spin it's a case of rotating the RHS, so that could cross over quite well in my opinion but with the seam bowling it's just a case of pulling the RHS back then pushing it forward. I guess it could be linked to landing the front foot consistently on the line?

I would back it up with a fluent fast runup the best the bowler can..Run up animation will be better and along with sound effects of his bowling with that oomph and "ahh" when delivering...And user input wise that ball can show the better pace off the pitch with a slight movement off the pitch even of normal seam up deliveries..So basically if the bowler is medium fast and in a great rhythm then I would make the game feel 135kmph as 142kmph just code that for rhythm...Its all about that off the pitch which show the rhythm, many bowl fast but rhythm makes it faster, hope I make sense..

This along with captain setting up with extra slips and catching positions and along with commentary as well like "The bowler seems to e in great rhythm and the captain has backed him up with a few extra catching position, great move made here, would be interesting play here"....
Even if the captain takes him off in the middle of that great spell, back up with commentary saying "That was a poor decision to take this bowler off, a few wickets here would have turned this match"...

 

[Markkkkk]

I think you've missed my point, which was how to have it work with the human input to bowl. With spin it's a case of rotating the RHS, so that could cross over quite well in my opinion but with the seam bowling it's just a case of pulling the RHS back then pushing it forward. I guess it could be linked to landing the front foot consistently on the line?

Yea I was giving what I think rhythm would be...

 

[blockerdave]

That's great, but do these attributes actually do anything?? I think we have more than enough sliders in DBC 14, it's just nobody has been able to tell us what effect that have, if any.

Well I've not played RLL3 so I don't know, but I think the translation of skills into gameplay certainly lets DBC down and an area that needs attention: whatever the amount or range of skills presented, we must see that in gameplay.

Other skills I'd add to bowlers:
New red ball skill
Old red ball skill
New white ball skill
Old white ball skill

These would essentially modify the skills pertaining to accuracy and control depending on ball condition and format

Additionally the bowling to a plan skill - I've mentioned before I think we should be able to set default bowling plans per player for each bowler type. This is essential for giving us varying opponents and make batting as different players feel different.

The bowling skill would set how well the AI bowler can stick to that plan, and for AI and human bowlers add a beneficial modifier on accuracy/movement when bowling deliveries that fit the plan, and a penalty for going off plan

 

[T.J.Hooker]

I always found rhythm tended to affect pace and movement much more than accuracy.

Basically it means the timing of all the moving parts of your action aren't quite in sync, or that you're not timing the acceleration into your delivery stride correctly, and the first thing you notice is that you don't have the snap in your arm. Wrist position might suffer for some bowlers, but how much that affects your accuracy depends on what you're trying to bowl and how much you rely on having ideal wrist position.

A swing bowler like Anderson relies on very exact wrist positioning so wrist problems are going to fundamentally reduce the accuracy of any swinging delivery because you just don't know how much swing to allow for. If you're just bowling seam up then it's less of an issue. Somebody like McGrath, who didn't move the ball as much, can get away with much more approximate wrist position without losing accuracy.

The most important thing for me about good rhythm is that you seem to be able to bowl your quickest without very much effort, and everything in the action is nice and relaxed. When your rhythm is bad it's like bowling up a hill, and the more you strive to get your pace back the worse it gets.

Guys with actions with more technical flaws might have more accuracy issues with bad rhythm though, say Steve Harmison. McGrath is never going to deliver a ball to second slip under any circumstances but on a bad day Harmison could spray it anywhere.

eta also while I'm thinking about rhythm, surely Michael Holding is a guy to consider. Incredible bowler, just absolutely effortless pace, incredible rhythm, pure poetry.

 

[Biggs]

So just to briefly divert the thread back to the original topic (feel free to continue though) but I started a T20 match, playing as Russia* vs. My Biggton Gamecocks** team... and it's turning into a barnstormer. Batting first on a pristine pitch, Russia were able to put on 193 in 17 overs against Biggton, bit of a collapse once they were around 6 down. I found it ridiculously easy batting as Russia to clear the fence early on with their key batsman, but once I lost a few and got into the tailenders it was pretty tough. Still, being able to put on 193 was a bit of a surprise, I didn't bat any diferent than I would with a NZ or Australia.

Bowling though, that's where it's coming apart. Biggton need about 9 and change an over and Tindoolkar Biggs is smashing the bowlers around the park. The irony of the 'real' Biggs going second ball (holes out to fine leg, naturally) notwithstanding, Biggton seem to be keeping up with the run-rate easily. Once we're into the medium-pace pack of Russia the AI seems to be easily in control, I'm bowling a tight line, I think I have them only 3 down though (One bowled, two caught in the outfield) so it's going to be close.

Is this realistic? Well, debatable... prolly not. Stat wise, they should be reasonably far apart (see the *'s below) but on the scoreboard, it's damn close. I would expect Biggton to win from here, but it could turn, as T20's tend to do... We'll see. Tell you one thing, it's damn fun. The AI is putting up a good challenge and bowling as the 'lesser' team has me changing the field a fair bit to try and stop the boundaries.

*1 Skill, 'out of the box' stats using the out of the box T20 squad
**3 Skill Custom team of all Biggs clones, I've selected a strong batting side for this match

 

[Langeveldt]

So just to briefly divert the thread back to the original topic (feel free to continue though) but I started a T20 match, playing as Russia* vs. My Biggton Gamecocks** team... and it's turning into a barnstormer. Batting first on a pristine pitch, Russia were able to put on 193 in 17 overs against Biggton, bit of a collapse once they were around 6 down. I found it ridiculously easy batting as Russia to clear the fence early on with their key batsman, but once I lost a few and got into the tailenders it was pretty tough. Still, being able to put on 193 was a bit of a surprise, I didn't bat any diferent than I would with a NZ or Australia.

Bowling though, that's where it's coming apart. Biggton need about 9 and change an over and Tindoolkar Biggs is smashing the bowlers around the park. The irony of the 'real' Biggs going second ball (holes out to fine leg, naturally) notwithstanding, Biggton seem to be keeping up with the run-rate easily. Once we're into the medium-pace pack of Russia the AI seems to be easily in control, I'm bowling a tight line, I think I have them only 3 down though (One bowled, two caught in the outfield) so it's going to be close.

Is this realistic? Well, debatable... prolly not. Stat wise, they should be reasonably far apart (see the *'s below) but on the scoreboard, it's damn close. I would expect Biggton to win from here, but it could turn, as T20's tend to do... We'll see. Tell you one thing, it's damn fun. The AI is putting up a good challenge and bowling as the 'lesser' team has me changing the field a fair bit to try and stop the boundaries.

*1 Skill, 'out of the box' stats using the out of the box T20 squad
**3 Skill Custom team of all Biggs clones, I've selected a strong batting side for this match

That's what I was expecting. I've never had a problem with the cricket in DBC 14.. Even with the silly holing out to mid off and mid on. It is normally engaging and competitive to say the least. The skilling though is completely shot.

 

[cooks1st100]

The skilling though is completely shot.

It really isn't though. Over powered yeah, and a problem on veteran and above but once you understand what does what and what you can and cannot get the AI to do it's fairly simple and the majority of the information is in the threads.

 

[cricket_online]

It really isn't though. Over powered yeah, and a problem on veteran and above but once you understand what does what and what you can and cannot get the AI to do it's fairly simple and the majority of the information is in the threads.

It is in a way that no matter how hard you try, you cannot create Chris "Phantom" Martin in the game or the vaunted English tail from the glory days of 90s.... I recall one particular match where Alan Mullaly actually batted 9 and he couldn't hold the bat competently. this is what's currently missing, i.e. representing all types of batsmen and bowlers from someone who doesn't know what a cricket bat is to someone who's Bradman incarnate. All the batsmen more or less feel the same and if AI is batting you can't really tell apart a 4 star batsman from say a 2 star batsman.

 

[Langeveldt]

It is in a way that no matter how hard you try, you cannot create Chris "Phantom" Martin in the game or the vaunted English tail from the glory days of 90s.... I recall one particular match where Alan Mullaly actually batted 9 and he couldn't hold the bat competently. this is what's currently missing, i.e. representing all types of batsmen and bowlers from someone who doesn't know what a cricket bat is to someone who's Bradman incarnate. All the batsmen more or less feel the same and if AI is batting you can't really tell apart a 4 star batsman from say a 2 star batsman.

I think you can probably create the difference between someone averaging 25 and someone averaging 35

 

[kurtkz]

@Dutch sorry I forgot post here - been catching up on CH-related things...what info can I expand on?

 

[fosse8]

Just to kind of echo Biggs' experience above, I actually find playing crap teams against each other is actually a huge amount of fun. Since the last update gave us the infinite sponsors/kits thing, I set up an entire English Minor Counties system, and populated them with a load of cast-offs, downloaded second-string Tanzanians and self-generated players, some of whom have no skill points at all. Watching Cheshire v Norfolk 2nd XI play out a floodlit pink-ball T20 in real life would be tedious to the point of torture; playing it in DBC14 leads to thrilling and unpredictable contests, because the players' ineptitude kind of cancels out and the teams are evenly-matched.

Of course Australia should batter Russia (and it's not impossible, albeit unlikely given the way the wind is currently blowing at the ICC (but I digress), to imagine some future scenario with a much-expanded World Cup where such a first-round game might occur, not unlike what happens in the rugby version now), but the question is more... what happens when Russia plays Italy? Does it look like what happens when Australia plays South Africa? How about Zimbabwe against Afghanistan?

That's a justification for having rubbish teams in the game. Rubbish players, who make up rubbish teams, should give the flexibility to have genuine tail-enders and unwilling, incomptent, pressed-into-service bowlers, but where the crap bowlers can simultaneously be godlike batsmen and the crap batsmen can be the reincarnation of Freddie Trueman.