Russia 122 for 2 at Lunch

[grkrama]

One of the problems about bad bowlers would be the scenario where bringing on a bad bowler can be more effective than bringing on an okay one (or even a good one, as the case frequently is with DBC14)

The obvious thing being, that a bad batsman would most likely be bad because they can't read the ball very well - who would probably be best when you've got an okay bowler delivering something resembling line and length, but something that's not too threatening; but for a bad bowler, being all over the place can make them hard to read, something a slightly decent batsman should easily read and cart away/leave as appropriate, but a bad batsmen would logically have more trouble with.

I suppose what I'm asking is, would the worst bowler dismiss the worst batsman, or would a batsman of any skill be able to counter very poor bowling? I would personally lean towards batting in that scenario - because you can throw your bat at stuff and hope for the best, and it would only be essentially down to luck if those shots end up carrying to a fielder.

This has to worked on both sides like TJ suggests, batting has to reflect skill too ..... even when player is batting. Of now its as easy to smack it around with shane warne as it is with tendulkar or as easy to nick a overpitched lolipop.

The one key problem that we all know with DBC is even the best of us cant read the lengths all the time which is the key reason for say getting dismissed to loose deliveries.

And one of the suggestions involves around being able to blink the length just before the ball is bowled ( this can further be expanded as a batting eye factor with better players picking early ) Also remove the distracting circle around the ball.

Improving Batting Assist for DBC/ playing without circle marker - Don Bradman Cricket 14 Forum on PlanetCricket Forums

Once this is addressed it will put batsman on a better platform and get out for actual mistakes as well as give better variation between all and different types of batsman.

OF now a player can play only in a single way with lara and tino best. apart form the little attrib effects the play style is the same and doesnt really reflect attribs much.

SO when you have a system that reflects the effects of bating better the effects of bowling will match it and get close to balance.

Also again i dont see much of a difference between a batsman with strong back foot play and one with front foot while batting. These factors once they come into play will improve experience.


This is always going to be the end result of the systems working together than just one particular system. Even better camera angles and lesser blind spots will change the balance for better.

Two other points is of now the loose deliveries mentioned that are likely to take wkts in DBC 14 would mostly be

1.Long hops by spinners and slow mediums
2.full curveballs by spinners
3.overpitched deliveries wide.


Now if there is proper pull for 1 and if the curveball insane drift is reduced and good value is given to smack the full toss easily i dont see them being the surprise deliveries they are in dbc14.

Thus make bad balls punishable than rewarding for bowlers most of the time.

 

[Biggs]

You may as well shove pitch markers back in the game if you want a giant floating "good" above the bowlers head!

No a hundred times to that.

The bowler has a ball in his hand. Use it. Watch the ball and/or make it glow:

- Green for Good Length
- Yellow for Pitched Up
- Red for short

When you're bowling spin

- Green for no turn
- Yellow for turning away from you
- Red for turning into you

Just keep it simple with a little assistance before the ball is bowled with you watching the ball, then the swing/seam marker takes over like it does now.

Key is to build that HUD stuff into the actual things you should be looking at in real life. I don't wanna see floating things above heads because then I'm not watching the game at all.

I want to watch the ball and feel like I'm picking lengths and so on.

It should also be gradual. The longer I'm in the longer I get to "read" the delivery out of the hand. To begin with, the ball glows very briefly and as it goes on, it glows for longer...

 

[cooks1st100]

As far as the bowling is concerned I feel that currently it's fairly good for the seamers and increasing/decreasing the seam attribute can give you just enough for there to be a difference between good and bad bowlers.

As I have mentioned on a few occasions previously, adding an accuracy attribute would be very beneficial but to make this work to it's potential the next edition needs the "corridor of uncertainty" to be made a feature, as well as leaving becoming a more important part of the game. Accuracy would also be affected by factors such as fatigue or confidence.

From the batting side of things, a timing window that is able to be adjusted individually would be useful, this should increase/decrease dependant on time in the crease, runs scored, dot ball, play and misses etc. The timing window should be able to be adjusted for individual strokes also.

Confidence should have a bigger impact, if a bowler is bowling well and the batsman is struggling to score he should go into his shell or maybe an aggressive batsman would be more inclined to play a loose shot.
Similarly batsmen should play themselves in and not be launching the ball for six first ball unless the situation requires this (T20's for example) but certainly not in the longer formats.

I would like us to be able to choose what strokes a batsman has in his armoury, lesser batsmen could be given 2/3 shots for instance, the default for not having a stoke available would be block, leave or evade. Maybe this could also be applied to human controlled batsmen although this could be confusing unless there was a way to bring up a hud that gave you this info.

 

[grkrama]

You may as well shove pitch markers back in the game if you want a giant floating "good" above the bowlers head!

The bowler has a ball in his hand. Use it. Watch the ball and/or make it glow:

[HASHTAG]#conceptPostnImage[/HASHTAG] made eons ago to say batting was better without big distracting circles around it, ya the basic idea is simply a quick indication giving say 500 ms extra and not a big circle around that distracts and gives mroe to process like now.

So ya i dont mind if its a dot above the head,bowlerarm or ball glows or bowler glows something to indicate length basically for a blink of a sec just before the bowler bowls.

When you're bowling spin

- Green for no turn
- Yellow for turning away from you
- Red for turning into you

I wouldnt want a turn or swing indicator if possible.. as i would hope for more animations that give actual indications by watching the bowlers arms or action.

Even in this version of DBC 14 in procam mode you can actually pick spinners especially top spinners and scrambled balls by pacers just by watching the seam, couple that with proper actions for diff deliveries. would be cool to have.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

You may as well shove pitch markers back in the game if you want a giant floating "good" above the bowlers head!

The thing is, a pro batsman knows with a high degree of accuracy where the ball will bounce almost as soon as it leaves the hand, and he immediately moves his focus to that area of the pitch to catch sight of the bounce movement.

A pitch marker is actually the only effective way of representing that information. A colour code that gives you a vague length and line is necessarily going to be much slower and less effective to parse into the necessary information. There just isn't another way of codifying information about where the ball is going to bounce that's similarly quick and informative.

The problem with the pitch marker in EA was that you could see it for goddamn ages before the ball release. If you only saw it at the point of release, and if it only reflected the initial trajectory of the ball and not any movement occurring during the flight, it would be as realistic an analogue of the process of perceiving deliveries when batting as you can get in a 2d game. It's exactly replacing the knowledge that a real batsman has that you can't perceive naturally via a 2d screen, and it's representing it in the simplest, most informative and easily parsed form, and in a way that draws your eye from hand to bounce point in exactly the same way as a real delivery draws your eye in real life.

There isn't anything about it that's any more unrealistic than any other hud.

 

[cooks1st100]

Even in this version of DBC 14 in procam mode you can actually pick spinners especially top spinners and scrambled balls by pacers just by watching the seam, couple that with proper actions for diff deliveries. would be cool to have.

So rather than a circle or colour scheme, how about the option to use those red half/white half training balls in game, which although would take away from the realism of a match would be a great visual aid. I still think a "real speed slider" would be a great help for those who struggle against pace.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

I've got red and whites in FC games and I play pro cam with no hud. I think it helps a little bit.

If there was some variation in arm position so you could pick whether or not the line was leg / stumps / off then that might also help.

 

[Biggs]

if you only saw it at the point of release, and if it only reflected the initial trajectory of the ball and not any movement occurring during the flight, it would be as realistic an analogue of the process of perceiving deliveries when batting as you can get in a 2d game.

Then, again... you're not watching any of the graphics, or the bowler, or the ball ...you're watching a pin-point on the pitch and instantly, you're not part of the game, you're playing the game. Totally disagree with the whole pitch-marker philosophy there needs to be innovation away from these decades old motifs in cricket games. Sorry, not meaning to be intentionally blunt, but I hate pitch markers with every fiber. There is a better way of delivering this information to the player and DBC gets it right, more than it gets it wrong currently. I think it still needs further evolution, but certainly not backwards towards pitch markers.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

Sorry, not meaning to be intentionally blunt, but I hate pitch markers with every fiber. There is a better way of delivering this information to the player and DBC gets it right, more than it gets it wrong currently.

Well I'm not taking it personally. I can understand you feeling strongly about it.

I just can't see any telling arguments in support of your position, apart from that old, shitty cricket games used pitch markers really badly and thus markers must die. In terms of speed and accuracy of information, the pitch marker is obviously the best solution. Whether it's a naturalistic solution is a somewhat subjective call, but there doesn't seem to be any strong basis to claim that a ring around the ball is more naturalistic than a ring at the bounce.

The thing is, a strategy of watching the bounce point is the solution batsmen are forced into using in real life because of the speed of delivery, and that's exactly why it offers a solution to the problem of reacting to quick bowling in games, which isn't something the DBC hud addresses especially well or very naturalistically imo.

I'm not suggesting DBC actually adds pitch markers, though. I'm just arguing that the analysis that they're intrinsically bad, unrealistic design doesn't hold up.

 

[Biggs]

but there doesn't seem to be any strong basis to claim that a ring around the ball is more naturalistic than a ring at the bounce.

Well, as I said earlier (and multiple other times) a ring around the ball (or my glowing ball suggestion) means you're looking at the bowler, the ball and whats happening during the game at that time. A pitch marker means you're not watching the game at all, you're watching a defined space on the pitch, not the bowler, or the ball, or anything happening at that end of the wicket... so you're not playing cricket anymore, you're playing premeditated ping pong.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

A pitch marker means you're not watching the game at all you're watching a defined space on the pitch, not the bowler, or the ball, or anything happening at that end of the wicket... so you're not playing cricket anymore, you're playing premeditated ping pong.

Hysterical bollocks. Even with a pitch marker as I described, you still have to watch the bowler / ball to get the timing correct, and to observe the final path of the ball, which will deviate from the marker if there is movement. I quite clearly stated that you watch the bowler through the release of the ball, and that the pitch marker shouldn't factor in movement. You watch the bowler, the ball, the bounce point, the ball in exactly the sequence you would in a real game.

That's exactly my point. It's less like ping pong, more like cricket and involves less premeditation because you get the information you need to choose a shot more promptly, thus reducing the need to premeditate to correctly time shots.

And anyway, we're talking of a difference of a few inches max between ball and marker on screen, with no need to refocus the eye for depth. You can keep track of the ball and a pitch marker during a delivery without breaking a sweat. You could probably even concentrate on watching the ball the whole way through and still pick up a hud marker in your peripheral vision.

 

[whiteninness]

Needs more line and length

 

[grkrama]

So rather than a circle or colour scheme, how about the option to use those red half/white half training balls in game, which although would take away from the realism of a match would be a great visual aid.

.

I have tried that and Actually it works really good especially in picking the type of ball in pro cam though it doesnt help much with picking the length, but it certainly ruins the cricketing immersion for me. Still certainly fun to try out.

I still think a "real speed slider" would be a great help for those who struggle against pace.

I dont struggle against pace i score truck loads better against pace than spin as it stands and i still think we need the length aid, mainly cause it makes the whole system more expandable and remove sameness in play style. The system should make you play like sehwag when you use him instead we mostly play like the same career batsman cause there are no perks to try to play like the given batmsan, sachin should pick the ball early, aaron should struggle to pick it up. THe batsman eye feature that this little length indicator will offer will get that ability to play around with varying styles and skills of batmsan more.

Right now DBC really captures the ME against the world feeling of batting this is absolutely great for career but outside it gets a bit stale as time goes with other players, what im hoping for is to be able to add the feel of lara or sachin against the world which i believe the length blink acting as a batsman's eye would open up.

Slowing down is one thing i would really hate if used other than say as additional option for people who really want it as an aid than having it as a actual gameplay factor.

I would want to feel the pace more than anything slowing down would be a big immersion breaker for me. I do feel its actually a tad slow compared to real life its just the animation latency and the placing of timing windows that prevent a bit from playing late as possible.

For example in IRL if i pick the yorker late i would jam the bat down on the ball, but in DBC 14 if you pick and play late you would conveniently move totally outside legstump with the bat and do a stump exposure pose when getting bowled.

Playing late or picking the delivery of the pitch doesnt seem possible with the anim and control latency. without visual cues interms of hud or bowler actions variations its not possible to pick the delivery out of hand.

If there is real time flow with batting animation and controls then picking length and playing would be evenly matched, but since its not available length blink would compensate for these without affecting the pace.

 

[whiteninness]

For example in IRL if i pick the yorker late i would jam the bat down on the ball, but in DBC 14 if you pick and play late you would conveniently move totally outside legstump with the bat and do a stump exposure pose when getting bowled.

The problem is though that it's fairly easy to bowl bouncers in the game, and if they were all as tough to play as they are in real life then it wouldn't be realistic.

 

[Biggs]

You watch the bowler, the ball, the bounce point, the ball in exactly the sequence you would in a real game.

That's simply not true at all with a marker point. Have you played any games with markers? Ashes Cricket (not that shit one) is an example of the bowling markers absolutely ruining an otherwise pretty decent game. But you absolutely do not watch the ball at all, what happens is:

• See the marker on the pitch
• Select your shot and the direction, while looking at the wagon-wheel HUD, making sure to avoid fielders
• Look back at the bowler and follow his action until release
• Where you then look back to your batsman, watch him play the shot, into the gap and press run.

In DBC

• Your perspective from behind the batsman has you viewing the run-up from the start, eyes never off the ball/bowler
• You select front or back foot prior to the delivery, which is premeditated according to your players attributes (predominately front or back foot player)
  
• You watch the bowler's entire motion, waiting until the ball leaves the hand and you get the )) or (( swing makers, then select your shot direction based on the ball and comet trail through the air (Is it on my pads, is it moving away from off?)
  
• You play the shot and watch the ball off the bat, into the gap, then press run

At no point in the "marker" scenario are you watching the ball out of the hand, or towards your player because the game has already told you exactly where it's going to be. You only need to "time" the shot based on muscle memory and the speed of the delivery. In DBC you HAVE to watch the ball because of the varying levels of speed and (in the case of spin) turn of the ball, especially when you're playing online.