Russia 122 for 2 at Lunch

[grkrama]

The problem is though that it's fairly easy to bowl bouncers in the game, and if they were all as tough to play as they are in real life then it wouldn't be realistic.

Again that's another factor that has been talked of in the threads, Bowler attribs taking proper effect from pace to accuracy etc, so only a mitchell johnson should be able to bowl a ripper at the throat easily and not ashok dinda.

Bowling especially the execution part while vastly improved over the prev cricket games, still needs to add a couple layers of natural difficulty to make it tough and reflecting real life. Of now any bowler can sling perfect yorkers and bouncers that shouldnt be the case.

one of the solutions is increase the good timing zone for lesser skilled bowlers, narrow it for high skilled ones and make it large so that various areas of the ptich is covered making it difficult to determine the length effectively, Also narrow down perfect to a needle for partimers etc.


Again its all about improving all the parts together and match them at a even balance, if one is giving a shortcoming to the other, fix the one causing the issue first than the one affected.

 

[Dutch]

It should also be gradual. The longer I'm in the longer I get to "read" the delivery out of the hand. To begin with, the ball glows very briefly and as it goes on, it glows for longer...

I like this idea but would suggest it be more dynamic: so depending on what level I am on I get more or less feedback: however as I get in I would like to be able to gradually not rely on feedback but by really having my eye in so the game feedback would become less if you get what I mean: it could also be coupled to game situations: if I am struggling after getting a confident 20 or 30, feedback should be less: if I start defending and leaving well I should have a little more feedback: guess what I mean is that the confidence mechanic really swings back and forth depending on the game situation, that it goes in cycles and waves.

 

[Biggs]

^this guy gets it

 

[T.J.Hooker]

At no point in the "marker" scenario are you watching the ball out of the hand, or towards your player because the game has already told you exactly where it's going to be.

Seriously, wtf is going on in your head? I've already specified in post you quoted the the marker shouldn't appear until the point of release. You wouldn't be able to see it until the ball is in the air. It doesn't even need to stay on screen for the entire delivery. It doesn't have to be implemented like EA cricket, so you insisting that it has to be implemented exactly like EA cricket is just daft.

Just to take a quick look at this :

In DBC

• Your perspective from behind the batsman has you viewing the run-up from the start, eyes never off the ball/bowler

Which would be identical with an on-release pitch marker. You're convinced the marker has to happen before the delivery for some weird reason. And what, reverse camera is a DBC thing? I've been playing with reverse or first person cam since (I think) BLC 99, and I was watching the ball/bowler the whole way, and I was here posting on this board that reverse camera was the only correct perspective and everyone on here was nuts for preferring broadcast cam.

This idea that you must watch the pitch marker and not the bowler or ball is just flat out nonsensical. Ok, I guess you can just stare at the marker the whole time like a doofus, but there's no necessity that you do so, and excellent reasons not to.

• You select front or back foot prior to the delivery, which is premeditated according to your players attributes (predominately front or back foot player)

Ok, this is obviously the problem bit in DBC. If you have the info a pro batsman has at the point of release, there ought to be enough time to select your shot without premeditating your foot choice, which is the single biggest factor in shot selection. But by the time you've had a look at the delivery vs a quick in DBC, the timing window has already gone. You need to get your right stick pressed before the ball is halfway.

In fact, DBC effectively has auto foot selection built in, because the same input will often produce either a front foot or back foot result depending on the length of delivery, and I suggest there's a strong argument that auto foot selection is more of a backward step for cricket gaming than the concept of a pitch marker.

• You watch the bowler's entire motion, waiting until the ball leaves the hand and you get the )) or (( swing makers, then select your shot direction based on the ball and comet trail through the air (Is it on my pads, is it moving away from off?)

Ok, so further to the above, DBC requires shot input before most of the delivery has happened vs the quicks. That's the whole problem, and it's exactly the info shortage that an on-release pitch marker would fix.

I've argued before that a hypothetical two stage input system for DBC - where footwork is independent so you can delay your shot input until the ball is nearer the batsman - would be another solution, and is actually the one I would prefer.

 

[Biggs]

Seriously, wtf is going on in your head?

....annnnnnnd that's where I'm finishing.

Beg to differ, etc.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

Well I'm sorry if you find that offensive, but if you can't even keep track of whether we're talking about a pitch marker that appears prior to the delivery or not then how am I supposed to have a conversation with you about it?

I sympathise with your hatred of pitch markers, and you're a good guy and I'm always happy to discuss nerdy cricket game stuff, but you can't seem to argue for it without just making shit up.

 

[Biggs]

FFS. I'm not making anything up. Pitch markers are on the pitch. The ball, the animations, the action, everything is in the bowlers hand. If there's a marker, on the pitch, you're not looking at the ball. I honestly do not know how much clearer I can spell that out for you, here, have a BiggsGraphic:



I've provided examples of pitch markers in the past, how your eye functions when you interact with them. You keep going on suggesting they're going to work magically differently under the "T.J.Hooker Technology" and I'm telling you, quite clearly with the entire history of pitch markers behind me that where you have pitch markers, that's where your eye looks. Period. Not at the bowler, or the delivery, or the action, or what you normally look at when you play cricket, or watch cricket. Unless you're telling me you stare at the pitch on the TV to see where the ball is going? No, you don't. You watch the bowler, the delivery, the angle of the run-up, the arm-movement.

What DBC needs is more subtle differences happening where the action is, not a regression to dated technology that puts the focus of the game to an entirely foreign location to all aspects of batting in cricket. You're told from junior grade cricket to "watch the ball" ...you're telling me to watch a blink on the pitch?

No thanks, coach.

Innovate.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

FFS. I'm not making anything up. Pitch markers are on the pitch. The ball, the animations, the action, everything is in the bowlers hand. If there's a marker, on the pitch, you're not looking at the ball. I honestly do not know how much clearer I can spell that out for you, here, have a BiggsGraphic:

What DBC needs is more subtle differences happening where the action is, not a regression to dated technology that puts the focus of the game to an entirely foreign location to all aspects of batting in cricket. You're told from junior grade cricket to "watch the ball"

Here's a quick explanation of how sighting the ball in cricket actually works, maybe this will help :

From eye movements to actions: how batsmen hit the ball - Nature Neuroscience

 

[Biggs]

...which basically backs up my argument in the first sentence?

Batsmen's eye movements monitor the moment when the ball is released, make a predictive saccade to the place where they expect it to hit the ground, wait for it to bounce, and follow its trajectory for 100−200 ms after the bounce.

Not...

Batsmen's eye movements monitor the pitch where the marker blinks, make a informative saccade to the place where they know it will hit the ground, wait for it to bounce, and follow its trajectory for 100−200 ms after the bounce.

...which is what happens with pitch markers.

Once more, for the back row: Innovate what is happening from the bowlers end, who's holding the ball.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

Um, are you still claiming that I'm advocating not watching the release of the ball because if so this is just the most monumentally retarded conversation.

 

[Dutch]

I actually enjoy batting the most without any info about length etc. but can understand that this is not everyones cup of tea. I do agree however that any feedback given needs to be at the source and not at the goal as it were. I could imagine a lot more possibilities with giving players feddback in the game. Too often you dont know why you did something wrong or right. Bowling is the most enjoyable watching the bowlers footplacement and arm height rather than any meters at the side.[DOUBLEPOST=1443868560][/DOUBLEPOST]Hi hi its nice to see how every thread manages to degenerate into a pub brawl....

 

[Biggs]

Um, are you still claiming that I'm advocating not watching the release of the ball because if so this is just the most monumentally retarded conversation.

No, I'm claiming that you're telling me to watch the pitch for a "blink" that's going to tell me exactly where the ball is going to land, with a pitch marker, so I don't need to watch anything at the other end because I know exactly whats about to happen because, "T.J.Hooker Technology" ...except for when the ball swings, so I'm getting guided premeditation thanks to the pitch.

If you only saw it at the point of release, and if it only reflected the initial trajectory of the ball and not any movement occurring during the flight, it would be as realistic an analogue of the process of perceiving deliveries when batting as you can get in a 2d game.

That's what you said. I'm somehow supposed to look at the bowler and watch for a blink of yellow at my toes at the same time? Talk me through that. It's not possible, the reality is you'd stare at the pitch as the bowler is running up until you saw the short burst of light, then you'd immediately look up for a split-second at the bowler to get your timing right, then straight to the batsman as your hands pushed the analogue sticks towards the bit of pitch you saw light up and blammo, you cream the ball to cover, or whatever...

Under my scenario, you'd watch the ball, the bowler and the run-up the entire motion of the player right on to the bat. ...and that's not taking into account any other subtleties of perhaps, having the bowlers arm-movement change speeds to indicate faster/slower deliveries, so over time you can pick the "slower ball" or "quicker ball" with the animation of the action speeding up, slowing down ...just as one idea.

 

[Dutch]

One idea for making bowling more interesting is to be able to much more intuitively determine the delivery...now we press a length button but I would like to see a more intuitive use of the release point to determine length...you can do that now to a certain extent but there is much more scope....and using the sticks to determine how the ball comes out of the hand.....

 

[Biggs]

and using the sticks to determine how the ball comes out of the hand

...for example, pulling back on the LAS might be a slower ball 'out the back of the hand' which is backed up by a change in animation, which is a trigger for the batsman to watch the hand of the bowler for a subtle animation change determining the pace of the delivery.

Your release point could be linked to the HUD (that I suggested in the other thread) on the left/right side of the player, which is linked to the ball glowing just prior to release which in turn, lets the batsman know the expected length of the delivery...

 

[Dutch]

Yeah the ball in the hand has to be the absolute first focal point for giving me useful feedback, whether I am batting or bowling....the second focal point is then how that reacts on the pitch....both need graduating scopes of feedback determined by my own playing wishes and the level i am
Playing on and the actual match situation.....confidence, tiredness, pressure etc