Saqlain Mushtaq vs Anil Kumble

[gaurav_indian]

Saqlain vs Harbhajan would be better.

 

[Dare]

i agree with Gaurav, its hard to comparing a leg spinner vs a off spinner. i would give the advantage to Kumble, he has played 100+ tests for his country, rare in this day and age and the 500+ wickets make a big difference, all tho Saqi was a bigger spinner of the ball and obviously his invention(or perfecting it) of the doosra will keep his name in the game for a long time. I would give Saqi the advantage in the ODIs, 169 matches, 288 wickets at 21.78, probably the best spinner in the ODIs at the time that he was playing. its hard to judge how many wickets he would have had had he countinued playing for Pakistan, i kno that he would have been better than Kaneria his overuse of the Doosra did him in sometimes but i think that experince would have come with age and i belive that he would have used it less somthin like Mulri. if he had stuck around for close to a 100 test and 300 or so ODIs i kno that he would have been considerd one of the best bowlers in the world but thats a IF and i think that his chances of comming back into the Pak team have gone by.

 

[nightprowler10]

I don't see why you can't compare a spinner with another spinner. We should stop comparing batsmen because one's left handed and the other is not? Anyway, to answer the original question, at their peaks, Saqlain was a superior bowler than Kumble, and a far better spinner than Jumbo. But of course when you compare their careers, Saqlain's no match. He could've been, but he isn't.

 

[symonds_sixes]

mustaq for sure, spin is better than bounce

 

[harishankar]

Kumble with 500+ wickets. His stats tell it all and his fitness to continue playing cricket at 36 and bowling 30+ overs a day is amazing. I think he's the one Indian bowler that the Aussies consistently respect over the years and that says a lot about the man.

Yes, sure Saqlain turns the ball more, but Sachin Tendulkar turns the ball even more. Merely turning the ball a mile doesn't give spinners 300 wickets.

 

[symonds_sixes]

Kumble with 500+ wickets. His stats tell it all and his fitness to continue playing cricket at 36 and bowling 30+ overs a day is amazing. I think he's the one Indian bowler that the Aussies consistently respect over the years and that says a lot about the man.

Yes, sure Saqlain turns the ball more, but Sachin Tendulkar turns the ball even more. Merely turning the ball a mile doesn't give spinners 300 wickets.

I'd rather face a ball that bounces more and spins less than a ball that bounces less and spins more.

 

[harishankar]

That's why Kumble has 500+ wickets right? Ultimately it's the performance that counts and Kumble has performed over the years destroying batting line-ups. India have played more away from home over the last 10 years and Kumble didn't get all his wickets bowling on dust-bowls at home.

He's evolved brilliantly. There was a time when he didn't turn a single ball, but nowadays you can see him flighting the leg-spinner more and getting a bit of turn and sowing the seeds of doubt in batsmen's minds. Along with that high-bouncing google, that's a deadly weapon.

And you're wrong about batsmen who prefer bounce to turn. Kumble's quick bouncing deliveries get him more wickets than a slow turner.

 

[symonds_sixes]

saqlain would have heaps more wickets as well if he wasn't always injured. If he can get back into the test team and play to the same age as Kumble he'll have more wickets than him.

 

[harishankar]

saqlain would have heaps more wickets as well if he wasn't always injured. If he can get back into the test team and play to the same age as Kumble he'll have more wickets than him.

That's pure conjecture.

That's exactly my point. What's the use of having a brilliant bowler when he doesn't stay fit and cannot play consistently? That's where Kumble's greatness shines through.

 

[nightprowler10]

Yes, sure Saqlain turns the ball more, but Sachin Tendulkar turns the ball even more. Merely turning the ball a mile doesn't give spinners 300 wickets.

Not sure if that's an argument for or against Saqlain. It can be said that he was the best ODI bowler the world had ever seen, better than Wasim and Waqar and even better than Murali in a way since he took wickets with a lot more frequency. Of course he took those wickets due to more than just his ability to spin the ball.

 

[symonds_sixes]

Not sure if that's an argument for or against Saqlain. It can be said that he was the best ODI bowler the world had ever seen, better than Wasim and Waqar and even better than Murali in a way since he took wickets with a lot more frequency. Of course he took those wickets due to more than just his ability to spin the ball.

And Kumble has never been good in ODIs

 

[nightprowler10]

And Kumble has never been good in ODIs

Quite. He averages 31 against Saqlain's 22.

BTW, even if we compare both of their test careers, Kumble comes out as an equal to Saqlain rather than his superior. Kumble took 325 of his 542 wickets in India at a superb average of 24. But away from home he has been rather ordinary taking 217 wickets at an average of 36. Saqlain on the other hand was consistent all the world over. In fact he averaged better than Kumble in every country except South Africa and West Indies where he only played one series through his career. He even outdid Kumble in India, averaging 21 against the best players of spin.

The only thing that really makes Kumble better than Saqlain is the longetivity of his career.

 

[puddleduck]

The only thing that really makes Kumble better than Saqlain is the longetivity of his career.

Almost certainly the case, although as always stats aren't everything, for most of Kumbles career he's had to carry a very ordinary pace attack with little to no pressure at times, whilst it would be fair to say Mushy had a pretty reasonable bowling attack around him.

I think the point here is that Saqi more than probably was the more talented bowler, in fact it would be fair to say not many people are probably as talented as Saqi, but in terms of mental strength, lastability, consistency and intelligence Jumbo is ahead, and both sides are as important as each other.

As talented as someone can be, it is always the end results that stack up, and 500 test wickets stack up pretty well.

 

[nightprowler10]

Almost certainly the case, although as always stats aren't everything, for most of Kumbles career he's had to carry a very ordinary pace attack with little to no pressure at times, whilst it would be fair to say Mushy had a pretty reasonable bowling attack around him.

I think the point here is that Saqi more than probably was the more talented bowler, in fact it would be fair to say not many people are probably as talented as Saqi, but in terms of mental strength, lastability, consistency and intelligence Jumbo is ahead, and both sides are as important as each other.

As talented as someone can be, it is always the end results that stack up, and 500 test wickets stack up pretty well.

Well said.

Kumble is not immensely talented like Warne, Murali, or even Saqi. But he still managed to take 500+ wickets due to his great cricketing brain. My post wasn't about putting Kumble down though, rather prove that they were equals, which is saying a lot for Kumble to be an equal to someone so talented. The man did invent his own delivery (allegedly).

 

[harishankar]

yeah, I'm curious why Saqlain career took a downturn... I think a great many Pakistani spinners haven't been lucky with their careers, particularly because of the strength of their pace attack.

On the other hand, you can see the same thing happening to Harbhajan's career since India don't play 2 spinners too often nowadays, particularly overseas.

It's a shame that there is going to be a severe spin drought in the subcontinent, particularly when Murali and Anil Kumble retire. There seems to be no young talent ready to take over.