Saqlain Mushtaq vs Anil Kumble

[sohum]

I'd rather face a ball that bounces more and spins less than a ball that bounces less and spins more.

And I can tell you that most international batsmen wouldn't. The extra bounce is what gives Kumble a lot of advantage on tracks that are otherwise a deathbed for spinners. Also, Kumble's accuracy is almost unmatchable by most other spinners. Apart from Warne, I cannot think of a recent leg-spinner who has got it on the dot over and over and over again. When you think about it, against top quality international opposition, its not going to be tons of spin that's going to get you out as much as it is going to be the ability to think the batsmen out.

Warnie is special in that regard because he gets tons of spin and his accuracy is admirable. And he's a leg-spinner to boot, which makes him pretty darn good because most batsmen haven't grown up against quality leg-spin bowling.

saqlain would have heaps more wickets as well if he wasn't always injured. If he can get back into the test team and play to the same age as Kumble he'll have more wickets than him.

Again, I beg to differ. In his brief comeback against India back in 2004 (was it? when we won 2-1 and Sehwag had the triple-ton?) he was decimated by the Indian batsmen. I'm not sure if he was playing under injury or whether he was surprisingly (to him) drafted back into the team, but his last performance with the ball was 1/204. Now, it is foolish to judge the man based on one innings, but I think he's been out of the game too long and he would have missed out on all the development that would have come from playing. It's a shame, really, but he won't be the first talented Pakistani cricketer who didn't reach the heights of their talent.

 

[aditya123]

but what would saqlains stats be if his had played same number of matches as kumble?

not to mention in odi's?

I do not understand the need of this thread .
You could have `n` number of threads comparing different cricketers .

Kumble has been relentless and has been one of the top spinners in world cricket along with Warne and Murali.
Now, with Warne retiring, he is the best leg-spinner currently playing world cricket.

Kumble is like the spin-bowling version of McGrath.

Saqlain started of being a superb offie, even better than Murali at a point in his career and he was the one who started bowling the doosra.
But the problem with Saqlain as others pointed out was that he overused the doosra.
In his last test appearance, he was thrashed by Sehwag at Multan and on the same pitch Kumble took 8 wickets in the match (6 in the 2nd innings).

 

[Gunner786]

I do not understand the need of this thread .
You could have `n` number of threads comparing different cricketers .

Kumble has been relentless and has been one of the top spinners in world cricket along with Warne and Murali.
Now, with Warne retiring, he is the best leg-spinner currently playing world cricket.

Kumble is like the spin-bowling version of McGrath.

Saqlain started of being a superb offie, even better than Murali at a point in his career and he was the one who started bowling the doosra.
But the problem with Saqlain as others pointed out was that he overused the doosra.
In his last test appearance, he was thrashed by Sehwag at Multan and on the same pitch Kumble took 8 wickets in the match (6 in the 2nd innings).

what did you expect him to take 10 wickets in an innings in his 1st match for a year and with 50% knees?

 

[symonds_sixes]

And I can tell you that most international batsmen wouldn't. The extra bounce is what gives Kumble a lot of advantage on tracks that are otherwise a deathbed for spinners. Also, Kumble's accuracy is almost unmatchable by most other spinners. Apart from Warne, I cannot think of a recent leg-spinner who has got it on the dot over and over and over again. When you think about it, against top quality international opposition, its not going to be tons of spin that's going to get you out as much as it is going to be the ability to think the batsmen out.

Warnie is special in that regard because he gets tons of spin and his accuracy is admirable. And he's a leg-spinner to boot, which makes him pretty darn good because most batsmen haven't grown up against quality leg-spin bowling.


Again, I beg to differ. In his brief comeback against India back in 2004 (was it? when we won 2-1 and Sehwag had the triple-ton?) he was decimated by the Indian batsmen. I'm not sure if he was playing under injury or whether he was surprisingly (to him) drafted back into the team, but his last performance with the ball was 1/204. Now, it is foolish to judge the man based on one innings, but I think he's been out of the game too long and he would have missed out on all the development that would have come from playing. It's a shame, really, but he won't be the first talented Pakistani cricketer who didn't reach the heights of their talent.

I don't care, as far as I'm concered Kumble is just a slow bowler with bounce and Saqlain is a better spin bowler. That's my opinion.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Not sure if that's an argument for or against Saqlain. It can be said that he was the best ODI bowler the world had ever seen, better than Wasim and Waqar and even better than Murali in a way since he took wickets with a lot more frequency. Of course he took those wickets due to more than just his ability to spin the ball.

You could argue the same exact thing with Shane Bond or Allan Donald.

Though I don't think being the best ODI bowler is something to go and brag about. If you're a half-decent bowler playing International Cricket. You should surely be able to put the ball in the right area for an attacking batsman to spoon it up in the air.

EDIT: I saw one of his doosra's to Adam Gilchrist in a tri-series after the 2001 Ashes series in England. It was twilight in the skye and Australia were chasing 290. Gilchrist is on fire and is 77 off 43 balls, the score is 3-111. (M. Waugh made a golden duck, Hayden batted at 3 and made a duck aswell ) and Gilchrist dances him and it turns back in. Saqlain screams like his an insane possessed man and it's all pretty surreal, lol. He gives me the feeling similar to Mohammad Asif.

They even held up a sign when Gilly was trudging off. "Saqlain is the spin doctor and Warne is the paitent". LOL, makes me feel glad we once had the likes of Shane Warne.

You Pakistani's can produce you're bowlers who've played over the last 10-15 years, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Saqlain Mushtaq, Mohammad Asif, Umar Gul.

And to go with that batsman like Javed Miandad, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Younis Khan & Mohammad Yousuf.

Why doesn't Saqlain get selected?

 

[Gunner786]

You could argue the same exact thing with Shane Bond or Allan Donald.

Though I don't think being the best ODI bowler is something to go and brag about. If you're a half-decent bowler playing International Cricket. You should surely be able to put the ball in the right area for an attacking batsman to spoon it up in the air.

EDIT: I saw one of his doosra's to Adam Gilchrist in a tri-series after the 2001 Ashes series in England. It was twilight in the skye and Australia were chasing 290. Gilchrist is on fire and is 77 off 43 balls, the score is 3-111. (M. Waugh made a golden duck, Hayden batted at 3 and made a duck aswell ) and Gilchrist dances him and it turns back in. Saqlain screams like his an insane possessed man and it's all pretty surreal, lol. He gives me the feeling similar to Mohammad Asif.

They even held up a sign when Gilly was trudging off. "Saqlain is the spin doctor and Warne is the paitent". LOL, makes me feel glad we once had the likes of Shane Warne.

You Pakistani's can produce you're bowlers who've played over the last 10-15 years, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Saqlain Mushtaq, Mohammad Asif, Umar Gul.

And to go with that batsman like Javed Miandad, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Younis Khan & Mohammad Yousuf.

Why doesn't Saqlain get selected?

knee injuries

abit like vaughn

but warne is recovering while saqlains injury and surgery were major,

so it is taking him longer to return

just watching kumble get amla lbw

i wouldnt call him a spin bowler

like one of the above posts states

a slow bowler with bounce

 

[aussie_ben91]

Really halted a potential career. Similar to Shane Bond.

Wow, that game I was talking about was actually pretty hostile. Pakistan fans through something at the Australian players and then set their seats on fire which were set off by bombs.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/pakistan/engine/match/66280.html

 

[Gunner786]

Really halted a potential career. Similar to Shane Bond.

Wow, that game I was talking about was actually pretty hostile. Pakistan fans through something at the Australian players and then set their seats on fire which were set off by bombs.

http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/pakistan/engine/match/66280.html

a delay for security reasons someone has apparently thrown something at one of the australian players and they're leaving the field now!
Match State: Delay
it seems a large number of fireworks were set on fire in the seats, then fireworks were thrown onto the ground
everybody coming back onto the field

a firework hit one of the australian players

waqars stats after 5 overs

5-0-48-5

 

[anandbatra]

What makes Kumble an all-round guy is that he is an engineer, too. I know that has got nothing to do with cricket, but having an engineering degree while playing cricket is amazing. Same goes with Srinath.

Zaheer Khan had to opt out of engineering to concentrate on his bowling.

 

[sohum]

I don't care, as far as I'm concered Kumble is just a slow bowler with bounce and Saqlain is a better spin bowler. That's my opinion.

It's a pity then when Kumble gets spin, because you probably don't see it... right?