Simon Katich and his thumb...

[Biggy]

Just has to be some harsh decisions coming up. Can understand Katich coming back in the team in 2008, none of the contenders now were either playing back then or in form. Its nice we gave a final chance to the guy, who was in awesome shield form, but you cany wait for Khwaja and Hughes to reach 29 before giving them a go.

Bad thing about that is the Australian selectors aren't one to make harsh decisions. They like to hang on to players as long as they can, ie. Marcus North.

 

[lethalhughes]

Just has to be some harsh decisions coming up. Can understand Katich coming back in the team in 2008, none of the contenders now were either playing back then or in form. Its nice we gave a final chance to the guy, who was in awesome shield form, but you cany wait for Khwaja and Hughes to reach 29 before giving them a go.

Excellent post.I would go further to say those two guys should be playing before 26 imo particularly Hughes.By picking Hughes and Khawaja we wouldnt just be picking youth for the sake of it but rather we're picking two guys averaging well over 50 in shield cricket.If selectors don't have faith in guys with such numbers then something is wrong.Any selection can fail or can succeed but in an ageing team we got a 23 and 21 putting up way better numbers averge wise than what North has been able to put up both is first class and test cricket.Hughes averges in test (though a small sample)about 14 more runs than North.Please remind me again why North holds on to his place and Hughes got dropped after just 3 innings in the ashes ( one where he wasn't out).

 

[sifter132]

Well steady on, Hughes looked awful in the Ashes, let's be honest. I had no problem with him getting replaced by Watson at the time because he was starting to look like a sitting duck for Flintoff and Harmison. I think he's improved since then though, and it ain't Flintoff and Harmison bowling to him this time. It's just that Marcus did well in that series, Phil didn't. So if both show some form before the first Test then they are going to stick with Marcus no doubt. I'd still rather have Hughes after this series is over though. I just think Marcus needs to be kept for team selection consistency reasons. If anyone gets dropped, I think it should be Hussey first.

 

[ChefMan21]

Well steady on, Hughes looked awful in the Ashes, let's be honest. I had no problem with him getting replaced by Watson at the time because he was starting to look like a sitting duck for Flintoff and Harmison. I think he's improved since then though, and it ain't Flintoff and Harmison bowling to him this time. It's just that Marcus did well in that series, Phil didn't. So if both show some form before the first Test then they are going to stick with Marcus no doubt. I'd still rather have Hughes after this series is over though. I just think Marcus needs to be kept for team selection consistency reasons. If anyone gets dropped, I think it should be Hussey first.

I'd dump them both come the end of the Ashes. I'd go:

1. Watson
2. Hughes
3. Katich
4. Clarke
5. Ponting
6. Haddin
7. Ferguson
8. Johnson
9. Smith/O'Keefe
10. Hilfenhaus
11. Bollinger

My biggest problem with the Australian team at the moment is there are very few 10 year players in the side. I know there was a theory going around that older players knew their games inside out and all that stuff. But I think we have gotten into a situation where we are chopping and changing every 3,4 or 5 years with the team. I think we need to get some ten year players in the side.

I think it's time for Ponting to give up the captaincy and or drop down to number 5. He needs to concentrate on his batting a bit more or he at least needs some of the pressure taken off him. He'd be just as good at number 5, in that he can still get that big knock, provide stability to the middle order and by been out there late in the game he knows what the pitch is doing and can make a better decision. I think Katich would be a perfect replacement.

I also think it's time for Hussey to retire. He isn't playing particularly well, is heading towards retirement and would be better suited to the ODI arena now.

Hughes to open with Watson. Watson is nearly 30, and I am wondering when those injuries will catch up. We don't want to be replacing two openers in Katich and Watson around the same time, so by shifting Katich down we still have one long term opener.

It's getting to the point where we need to inject some youth, so Ferguson comes in. I think he is a cracking player and as good as any youngster in the world. He's our long term number 5, but I've slotted him in at 7 so he still has some batting to come and can ease into it a little.

Smith or O'Keefe as the spinner. They are both ready for a few games I think, so it's just a matter of what the pitch is like. Not really a fan of Hauritz. He doesn't provide enough bowling wise, and his batting isn't great either.

Bowling wise, the side has four quicks, a spinner and Clarke. Once Katich and Ponting go, Ferguson to move up to 5 and Khawaja to go to 3. At 7, I'd bring in Hastings, who looks the goods as an all-rounder. That gives us 5 quicks which is a nice position to be in, plus a spinner in Smith. Alternatively, if Smith and Johnson provide enough batting wise then bring in Peter George which I would prefer. George is like watching McGrath all over again...

 

[aussie1st]

It's going to be touch and go if Katich makes the Ashes from the latest report. He will play no Shield matches so he will definitely be a risk. If out Hughes will definitely get a go as has happened in the past when Katich was injured.

 

[Robelinda]

agree with a lot of the above, you have to bloody players you think are going to be around for 10 years, give or take. Its harsh sometimes. I like North, but he was an odd selection, like Hussey kind of, where the best you were going to get was 5 or 6 years, assuming they dont fall in a heap at 33 or 34 like some do. I'm assuming they dont want to go down that route again for the meantime, they havent selected Klinger or Hodge who have been scoring mountains of runs, theyve made noises about Ferguson, selected Hughes on and off, so the selectors seem to be on the right track, they just need to drop one or two of Katich, North, Hussey by summers end, win or lose the ashes.

 

[lethalhughes]

I'd dump them both come the end of the Ashes. I'd go:

1. Watson
2. Hughes
3. Katich
4. Clarke
5. Ponting
6. Haddin
7. Ferguson
8. Johnson
9. Smith/O'Keefe
10. Hilfenhaus
11. Bollinger

My biggest problem with the Australian team at the moment is there are very few 10 year players in the side. I know there was a theory going around that older players knew their games inside out and all that stuff. But I think we have gotten into a situation where we are chopping and changing every 3,4 or 5 years with the team. I think we need to get some ten year players in the side.

I think it's time for Ponting to give up the captaincy and or drop down to number 5. He needs to concentrate on his batting a bit more or he at least needs some of the pressure taken off him. He'd be just as good at number 5, in that he can still get that big knock, provide stability to the middle order and by been out there late in the game he knows what the pitch is doing and can make a better decision. I think Katich would be a perfect replacement.

I also think it's time for Hussey to retire. He isn't playing particularly well, is heading towards retirement and would be better suited to the ODI arena now.

Hughes to open with Watson. Watson is nearly 30, and I am wondering when those injuries will catch up. We don't want to be replacing two openers in Katich and Watson around the same time, so by shifting Katich down we still have one long term opener.

It's getting to the point where we need to inject some youth, so Ferguson comes in. I think he is a cracking player and as good as any youngster in the world. He's our long term number 5, but I've slotted him in at 7 so he still has some batting to come and can ease into it a little.

Smith or O'Keefe as the spinner. They are both ready for a few games I think, so it's just a matter of what the pitch is like. Not really a fan of Hauritz. He doesn't provide enough bowling wise, and his batting isn't great either.

Bowling wise, the side has four quicks, a spinner and Clarke. Once Katich and Ponting go, Ferguson to move up to 5 and Khawaja to go to 3. At 7, I'd bring in Hastings, who looks the goods as an all-rounder. That gives us 5 quicks which is a nice position to be in, plus a spinner in Smith. Alternatively, if Smith and Johnson provide enough batting wise then bring in Peter George which I would prefer. George is like watching McGrath all over again...

Ferguson at 7?If Ferguson is in the team post ashes he should bat ahead of Haddin.If he can't handle the pressure at 6 then you can't pick him surely.I do like Ferguson though and think he's a gun bat, i would place Hughes and Khawaja ahead of him though.George didn't look bad at all on debut.He might need to work on a bit more pace since he doesn't move the ball much.Bowling at 80-84 mph he can be successful if he has the bowling smarts that is really good at setting a batsman up,McGrath was the best at it, Clark was also really good at that and the best in the business now is Asif.Its had judging George on his debut but he needs to show a bit more before i would make comparisons to McGrath.

 

[aussie1st]

agree with a lot of the above, you have to bloody players you think are going to be around for 10 years, give or take. Its harsh sometimes. I like North, but he was an odd selection, like Hussey kind of, where the best you were going to get was 5 or 6 years, assuming they dont fall in a heap at 33 or 34 like some do. I'm assuming they dont want to go down that route again for the meantime, they havent selected Klinger or Hodge who have been scoring mountains of runs, theyve made noises about Ferguson, selected Hughes on and off, so the selectors seem to be on the right track, they just need to drop one or two of Katich, North, Hussey by summers end, win or lose the ashes.

Wasn't too fussed with it back then, we didn't really have anyone else banging down the door and Hussey was firing. Where the selectors went wrong was giving them too much leeway when they failed. For the youngsters fair enough but the oldies shouldn't have as much leeway that has been given.

 

[Robelinda]

Yep North shouldve been dropped after the Hobart test. But he could go on and have a bumper summer, he looks in god form so far on home soil.

 

[sifter132]

I'd argue about picking 10 year players. I think we should be looking ahead, but only to the 2013 Ashes. Anything after that - we can sort out later. I don't see the obsession with the 'we need to pick this guy now' type urgency if he's only 22. It's great if we find a 22 year old, with no holes in his game and is so awesome that he won't be dropped for 10-15 years. But I don't think Hughes or Khawaja are THAT good.

I guess my opinion is based on recent Aussie history. The good young batsmen were all dropped at some point and really only started playing well in their late 20s: Ponting, Clarke, Martyn, Hayden, Langer, Watson, Steve Waugh, Katich I guess too (although he was a bit older, he still changed his game after being dropped).

 

[ChefMan21]

Ferguson at 7?If Ferguson is in the team post ashes he should bat ahead of Haddin.If he can't handle the pressure at 6 then you can't pick him surely.I do like Ferguson though and think he's a gun bat, i would place Hughes and Khawaja ahead of him though.George didn't look bad at all on debut.He might need to work on a bit more pace since he doesn't move the ball much.Bowling at 80-84 mph he can be successful if he has the bowling smarts that is really good at setting a batsman up,McGrath was the best at it, Clark was also really good at that and the best in the business now is Asif.Its had judging George on his debut but he needs to show a bit more before i would make comparisons to McGrath.

The thing I was thinking with Ferguson at 7 is that it gives Haddin a bit more batting around him. Ferguson can just chip it around, rotate the strike and build a good partnership; while Haddin can get his eye in and go spastic later on if he has to/wants to. If Haddin is lower, then he has no recognised batsman after him, which forces him to take bigger risks.

I think Ferguson is a middle-lower order batsman, which is why I have him at 7 to start with. Khawaja is a first or second drop to me, so I didn't want him down at 7 which is totally different to a 3 or 4. He could play his natural game, but a 3 or 4 needs to be building a big innings, while a 7 plays hit and run for a little while then starts swinging. I'm not sure that is in Khawaja's game/best interests.

I'm okay with George bowling at the speed he does at the moment. He has so much control, which means that speed is not a primary weapon. Having said that, I think that he needs to be sent to the gym to pack on some muscle mass. I don't want him to go crazy, but I think he needs to bulk up a fair bit. If he bulks up, his pace will increase significantly, he will be less prone to injuries and he'll get some really good leg drive which will help him extract more swing, seam and bounce. He reminds me of McGrath a lot. He's not him yet, and he more than likely won't get to that stage, but watching him it is like watching McGrath in his early days - except with less swearing...

Wasn't too fussed with it back then, we didn't really have anyone else banging down the door and Hussey was firing. Where the selectors went wrong was giving them too much leeway when they failed. For the youngsters fair enough but the oldies shouldn't have as much leeway that has been given.

Agreed - to a certain extent. Definitely in the past 2 or 3 years it's being happening a lot. And in the past there were few youngsters really banging on the door. The thing now is that Ferguson, Hughes and Khawaja are just starting to bang on the door. At first it was a gentle knock. Now it's starting to head to a crescendo. I'm not saying we should drop players left, right and centre as we want continuity and a core group of players. This is not the NSW rugby league State of Origin selection room (that might be lost on some of you). But what I am saying is that when those occasional failures start becoming regular, you should be looking at bringing in a new player, and if possible that player should be a young guy. If a young guy shows he isn't ready when he has 2 or 3 series under his belt, then by all means bring in someone else - even an older guy. But if you can get 10 year players in before 3,4 or 5 year players then that should be a priority.

 

[lethalhughes]

I'd argue about picking 10 year players. I think we should be looking ahead, but only to the 2013 Ashes. Anything after that - we can sort out later. I don't see the obsession with the 'we need to pick this guy now' type urgency if he's only 22. It's great if we find a 22 year old, with no holes in his game and is so awesome that he won't be dropped for 10-15 years. But I don't think Hughes or Khawaja are THAT good.

I guess my opinion is based on recent Aussie history. The good young batsmen were all dropped at some point and really only started playing well in their late 20s: Ponting, Clarke, Martyn, Hayden, Langer, Watson, Steve Waugh, Katich I guess too (although he was a bit older, he still changed his game after being dropped).

And North and Hussey are that good right now???The point is that both Hughes and going by present form Khawaja deserve strong consideration, it wouldn't matter if they were 23, 25 or 28.Hussey and North are both not getting the job done while we have two players with outstanding talent and runs to back them up.22-23 years old isn't too young to be making a debut, the only time age should be a factor in not selection a player is if that player is too old.So long as a player is good enough thats good enough for me and Khawaja and Hughes have shown they're good enough.I wouldn't call for too many changes heading too the ashes but after the ashes Hussey needs to be shown the door, North if he can't show consistency during the ashes and there after needs to go also.How would we know what Hughes and Khawaja are really made of if we don't give them a long enough run?

 

[angryangy]

I'd argue about picking 10 year players. I think we should be looking ahead, but only to the 2013 Ashes. Anything after that - we can sort out later. I don't see the obsession with the 'we need to pick this guy now' type urgency if he's only 22. It's great if we find a 22 year old, with no holes in his game and is so awesome that he won't be dropped for 10-15 years. But I don't think Hughes or Khawaja are THAT good.

I guess my opinion is based on recent Aussie history. The good young batsmen were all dropped at some point and really only started playing well in their late 20s: Ponting, Clarke, Martyn, Hayden, Langer, Watson, Steve Waugh, Katich I guess too (although he was a bit older, he still changed his game after being dropped).

Yeah, there's no rush to create 10 year players, but that said, the opportunities should be taken when they come up. If you want to see how the young Steve Waughs handle top quality short pitched bowling, there's really only one place to test them out.

 

[AngryPixel]

Considering how many chances North got before he scored his recent career saving century, any youngster would have made a career out of that many opportunities.

 

[pcfan123]

He's not Mark Ramprakash just yet. but it is interesting to note he has played at least 2 "career saving centuries" and has only scored 5 total