South Africa's tour of India - October/December 2015

[grkrama]

Well no one really believed Jon Snow was actually dead ... he just had to come back and the net has been wild with theories ... and the teaser does confirm him not being dead in a way.

ya was hoping so, but considering it is martin i thought he was a goner, of now only daenerys, snow and arya's arc are leading the show !

 

[Markkkkk]

Why was Villas chosen over Quinton ?

He got dropped due to not showing the ability of being patient and he currently isnt good enough for the test side. We've all seen him against spinners and on these wickets he would have struggled...

 

[stefan]

Would you agree that in this series at least, the Indian spinners where better than the South African spinners? Call it home ground advantage or whatever.. We as South Africans need better quality International spinners... if we did... it would definitely be a closer series!

Even when Aus won in India it was never there spinner who won them the series and they had warne. Maybe the series would have been different if Steyn didn't injury his groin in the first innings, we will never know.

Wow! Stefen, You actually defending this SA squad. I am big fan of SA but they surely disappointed me this time. I was hoping for a neck to neck fight but sadly, they performed so poorly that the series never looked liked a competitive one. I surely blame them for everything. They should have played sensibily. I didn't see any difference in pitches this time around and fact is indian Bolwers didn't take a single wicket which was actually turning in First test. If you say Hasim Amla , abd etc got out on a turner in 1st test and that was because of the pitch, then sorry, they don't know how to play spin. We played alot better than this on green tops.
You said Bangalore one was good. How much they made ? 300 ? No. They failed there too. You can't just make an excuse saying they would have played better in 2nd innings. They didn't played a single inning which can be categoried as good

No I am not defending the SA team they were poor and didn't apply themselves. I am complaining about the conditions for both sides. India won but they weren't able to play great cricket either because the conditions didn't allow them. I have seen each and every test series SA has played in India since readmission and this series has had the worst pitches by a long way.

 

[Markkkkk]

The biggest problem with the pitches were that they didnt offer anything to batsmen or pace bowlers, thus shoving South Africa into a corner that they arent comfortable with. Every team does it and its annoying and I wish it didnt happen but this is 100% oponion based so we should probably drop it as it will never end...

 

[abhi_jacko]

This is very interesting. I feel like we (Indian fans) need to learn something here.

When our team provided us with dismal performances in England, etc. we were incredibly harsh on our batsmen and bowlers. Wanted X,Y,Z dropped, Wanted Dhoni to take the brunt. Demanded better performance by selectors and the coach. Regardless of how alien the conditions were for our team. Even now, despite winning the series, we have had posts from the Indian fans asking for Dhawan's ouster, critique for Kohli and Rahane.

On the other hand, there is hardly any flutter caused by the [HASHTAG]#blamethepitch[/HASHTAG] crew about how SAF might need better spinners, or their batsman might need better techniques against spin. They have unwavering faith in their team's talent and are backing them despite poor performances. Something we should learn from !

 

[LiveLoveABD]

So people are saying they have no issues in tests getting over in 3 days? This is rubbish. Very soon people will get bored and start complaining that the balance has shifted too much towards the bowlers. It's not hard to produce a good test wicket that favours the home side. This pitch was never meant to last five days, period. Just look at Faf's dismissal.

Also, the appealing today and the attitude in general of the Indian team was stinking of an arrogant Australian test side. I guess, the leader sets the tone and Kohli is renowned for being a poor winner. Not to mention, the team director. Quite embarrassing.

Can't wait for India's tour to SA.

 

[War]

Even when Aus won in India it was never there spinner who won them the series and they had warne. Maybe the series would have been different if Steyn didn't injury his groin in the first innings, we will never know.



No I am not defending the SA team they were poor and didn't apply themselves. I am complaining about the conditions for both sides. India won but they weren't able to play great cricket either because the conditions didn't allow them. I have seen each and every test series SA has played in India since readmission and this series has had the worst pitches by a long way.

Yea hard to disagree with that and I've seen all SA tours to India live since 2000, all AUS tour since 98 and all ENG tours 2001 & the only pitch i remember playing up as badly as the wickets in Nagpur & Mohali was the AUS vs IND test in Mumbai 2004 & that was a under-prepared wicket for sure.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

This is very interesting. I feel like we (Indian fans) need to learn something here.

When our team provided us with dismal performances in England, etc. we were incredibly harsh on our batsmen and bowlers. Wanted X,Y,Z dropped, Wanted Dhoni to take the brunt. Demanded better performance by selectors and the coach. Regardless of how alien the conditions were for our team. Even now, despite winning the series, we have had posts from the Indian fans asking for Dhawan's ouster, critique for Kohli and Rahane.

On the other hand, there is hardly any flutter caused by the [HASHTAG]#blamethepitch[/HASHTAG] crew about how SAF might need better spinners, or their batsman might need better techniques against spin. They have unwavering faith in their team's talent and are backing them despite poor performances. Something we should learn from !

SA has been poor. I'm not doubting that. Apart from AB and Hash, who are proven test batsmen, everyone needs to be looked at. Their only saving grace has been the fast bowling. But, there's no doubt the series so far has been unsporting.

 

[War]

Would you agree that in this series at least, the Indian spinners where better than the South African spinners? Call it home ground advantage or whatever.. We as South Africans need better quality International spinners... if we did... it would definitely be a closer series!

Since Readmission SA have played spin better than any non-Asian side, so even if one wants to say this a team without Kallis/Smith - SA never play spin this badly as they did in this series.

 

[War]

The perfect example was the wicket for the first test between Pakistan and England UAE. There was a lot of criticism of it and people called it a road, could land a plane on that etc. etc. However just days later, Aus NZ play a test in Perth on an even more road of a wicket, and people couldn't stop gushing about the runs that were scored on it.

I know people were praising the innings, but I know many people were criticizing the wicket because it was a sad sight seeing Perth - the historical greatest wicket for helping fast bowler play like a SC road & for a good years now I've been concerned as a AUS fan perspective that many AUS pitches are playing too flat & loosing some of its unique individual characteristics.

 

[abhi_jacko]

Unsporting ?

LOL

People have already brought up the England series. I would like to go further back and bring up the India tour of NZ 2002/3. The second test I think it was, with a lush green lawn provided as a pitch. Both India and NZ were shot out in the 90s. Not a single 50 scored. Sanjay Bangar was getting wickets for crying out loud. The only complaints heard back then were from Indian fans and media who wanted heads rolling before the world cup in South Africa. I dont know how that pitch was any more sporting than this one, but not a peep was heard against the playing conditions.

As has been pointed out. There is a very obvious bias against spinning wickets over green ones, and it is absolutely ridiculous IMO

 

[War]

I think enough has been said about pitches and we can go on arguing without either side changing their stand, however I do want to address the part in bold.

I think the reason why pitches in India that help spin get the flack is that because they are dusty, people think they are under-prepared. First of all if you saw the pitch report today, both Sunny and Pollock said that the pitch has actually held quite firm, despite giving the illusion on day 1 that it just couldn't wait to come apart.

Second the larger point where the bias against spinning wickets comes from, while green wickets seem to get barely a comment and all kinds of positive spin put on them, is that there is this weird illusion going around that a curator has to work hard to prepare a green wicket, while a curator has to forget his job and at the last second find a strip of land and then basically throw some dirt on it, and viola you get a spinning track.

That is not the case, just like a green track, a spinner also needs just as much work. The pitch doesn't turn, and the pitch is not dry because the curator didn't work on it. No, the pitch is dry and helping spin, because it was made that way, with just as much preparation, as would go into the making of a green top.

I don't know where this comes from. People think of a square spinner, the curator must not of worked on it, because had he worked on it, we would get a flat wicket, or a green top, or basically anything expect a square spinner. This is why the bias exists against square spinner, this underlying assumption that its an under-prepared wicket.

The truth is that a wicket can be prepared for days to be a green top, and the wicket can just as equally be prepared by the curator to turn from day 1. This under prepared bit is wrong.

@aditya123 @grkrama Well just to mention you two guys here as a correction, I actually agree that Bangalore wasn't that bad am still laughing at the fact that IND choose Binny over another seamer. Was more speaking of 1st test and this one regarding to assistance for spin & yes also SA batsmen even IND had their deficiencies playing spin. Cause I'm almost sure Elgar & Harmer will never look this threatening ever again in their career over the course of a series.

So yea @PokerAce I know it takes a special type of preparation to prepare and green top, turner even a perfect bouncy wicket.

But a bad turner is caused by some level of under-preparation or limited preparation, since all a curator has to is start if dry (maybe leave no grass for day 1) that dooesn't take days to do. So when it starts turning day 4/5 levels on day 1 - it will only get worse & game inevitably ends in a few days.

 

[grkrama]

But, there's no doubt the series so far has been unsporting.

I strongly disagree with that, mohali wasnt a rank turner by any means, if batsman of both sides dont have talent to conjure up 50s or 100s its not the pitch's fault!.

This pitch was the only one that is "unsporting"

Last one like this was in 04 which was actually way to much of a minefield than this one, still a pitch like this once a decade to test out the NO1 ranked sides i dont think that does any harm to test cricket!

Again mohali was not a rank turner! one test in a decade with a pitch like this only spices things up not detriates![DOUBLEPOST=1448637913][/DOUBLEPOST]

Cause I'm almost sure Elgar & Harmer will never look this threatening ever again in their career over the course of a series.

Hey we made moeen ali look threatening on a timid wkt for spin so cut our batsman some slack to make elgars and harmers look like wiz again in good spin wkts!

Vijay and pujara played pretty well in mohali!

 

[grkrama]

I actually agree that Bangalore wasn't that bad

It was a great wkt...before rain spoiled up things.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I strongly disagree with that, mohali wasnt a rank turner by any means, if batsman of both sides dont have talent to conjure up 50s or 100s its not the pitch's fault!.

This pitch was the only one that is "unsporting"

Last one like this was in 04 which was actually way to much of a minefield than this one, still a pitch like this once a decade to test out the NO1 ranked sides i dont think that does any harm to test cricket!

Again mohali was not a rank turner! one test in a decade with a pitch liek this only spices things up not detriates![DOUBLEPOST=1448637913][/DOUBLEPOST]

Hey we made moeen ali look threatening on a timid wkt for spin so cut our batsman some slack to make elgars and harmers look like wiz again in good spin wkts!

Vijay and pujara played pretty well in mohali!

This is your opinion. I'm not saying other countries don't do it. And I'm sorry but the Mohali wicket also was heavily tilted towards India, it just wasn't underprepared.