South Africa's tour of India - October/December 2015

[SaiSrini]

Finally back on the Computer after days yay !!

India did exceptionally well to win the series 3-0. In all of this there was an unsung hero for India and that was the Wicket Keeper - Saha. He was just phenomenal in this tour. We barely noticed him at all, and on the pitches he kept that is the best compliment a keeper can have. One only notices keepers when they are doing something wrong, and Saha on this tour was unbelievably good. he chipped in with a few 30s with the bat, but boy his keeping was beyond belief this entire series.

Going into the series I was not his greatest fan, and believed that Ojha should have kept as he is a slightly better batsman, or atleast looks to be one. However Saha came into this tour with the reputation of technically the best keeper in the country and he lived upto that. He outperformed Vilas by a mile with the gloves.

I just saw the highlights package! That catch he took today to get rid off Piedt (off Yadav) was pure gold. It was sensational. The guy has slowly been easing into the role, chipping in with a few really useful scores and providing us with very stable and good keeping even on tough wickets. He is worth persisting. Just because we had a swashbuckling Dhoni before him doesn't mean our wicketkeepers should always be like Dhoni. Saha is more Nayan Mongia than MS Dhoni, and that's a good thing for India too coz Mongia lasted a really long time and was a very reliable keeper along with being a handy bat.

 

[SaiSrini]

You have to understand that the scorecard, at many times doesn't do justice to what happened on the field. The grit and determination shown by SAF's top order is commendable. They were pushed into a corner, and instead of going down in a blaze of fire they decided to grind it out and hang on for as long as they possibly could.

And mind you, guys like ABD-Faf-Amla are natural stroke players. For someone like ABD to rein in his dominating instinct and to block out deliveries he would have deposited in the stands with his eyes closed makes for fascinating viewing personally.

They still lost, but as Amla said. You can go for broke and embarrass yourself or you can lost with honor. I think they lost with honor

From what I am reading (obviously I didn't watch it - I know some seem to point that I have no business arguing when I didn't watch, to which I humbly disagree). SAF blocked even full tosses and half volleys. And at a run rate of 1 or less than 1 run per over. That's ridiculous. Again as I said, they didn't achieve anything both statistically or mentally. Earlier they perished being positive. Here they perished being negative. What gains did they achieve?

From a series perspective, I see that they hanging out there to extend the game into an extra day might make it seem fascinating, but personally, if you call a bowler "negative" for bowling a leg stump line, then this is also negative cricket from SAF to have batted like this.

 

[shravi]

Being a guy living in the US, it's hard to watch these games shravi and you know that. However, even if I had watched it, I would have had the same reaction (or maybe even worser). Frankly I am continuing to be surprised to see so many complimentary comments for SAF's blockathon in the fourth innings of this test. Eventually, we broke it. Where did their blockathon get them to? 143 runs all out? How bad does that look? Pretty bad if I were a SAF fan.

I think you would feel differently if you had watched the game. It was actually very exciting, especially with the quick over-rate, which made it feel like something was always happening or going to happen (even though most of the time nothing did). On one hand, I agree with you that it is dissapointing that South Africa basically decided that they are no longer good enough to compete with India, and just went for the draw from ball 1. However, as a cricket fan, it was pretty cool to watch.

echoing what others have already said. ishant is getting in on experience atm, but i am not sure what purpose he serves in india. he can be a decent option in south africa, new zealand, west indies, and sri lanka. but i would prefer for both aaron and yadav to play ahead of him, at least in india.

 

[abhi_jacko]

SAF blocked even full tosses and half volleys. And at a run rate of 1 or less than 1 run per over. That's ridiculous. Again as I said, they didn't achieve anything both statistically or mentally.

Whats wrong with that ?

I guess you don't see the fascinating point regarding this. An instinctively aggressive batsman like ABD blocking out juicy full tosses, because it was their only way to salvaging a draw. Now you will say, but what's wrong with putting away the poor deliveries. It robs you off your blocking momentum. It is a risk, even if a very mild one. Blocking is not easy to do, definitely not for long hours against a lethal bowling attack on a 5th day wicket. And as @shravi said, the quick over rate made sure it was not a dull affair.

 

[namin96]

I must admit the joy I have got out of seeing Yadav reverse it at pace. It is always difficult to face reverse-swinging yorkers. If he can do this, we might have an answer for the wagging tail. Had it been solely spin that did it for India, this win would`nt have meant as much.

Yadav has really come back as a great bowler. He's bowling more consistently on that good length and full length outside the off stump and now he's reversing the ball. I've never seen him reverse the ball before this series so that's good news. I would probably pick him ahead of Ishant cause of the extra pace he's got.

 

[namin96]

I would have agreed with your top 2 if there was no "Spinning" conditions. So i will put Williamson ahead ABD.

I can't see how Steve Smith and David Warner are ahead of Virat Kohli. These two haven't performed at all in India on turning pitches. Warner's technique against the turning ball is terrible. Also yes, currently I would put Williamson ahead of AB because AB does have issues against quality spin bowling (like Ashwin and Jadeja).

 

[namin96]

Well SA got a crack at a 5 day game and they still lost. The pitch was pretty good as well with not that much turn so there really shouldn't be excuses coming from former cricketers about India preparing turners just to win against SA. Why are all those critics silent now? This was a 5 day pitch that India won on so talk about the pitch now????? Stupid senseless pitch talk after the Nagpur match. Also, if it wasn't for Ashwin's injury in the ODI series, SA probably wouldn't have won a game to be honest maybe one at the most. Looking forward to the ODI series in Australia next month, should be good!

 

[namin96]

I am absolutely loving the blocking. Just goes to show, if they put their mind to it, even modern day batsmen with good techniques can grind it out.

I would like to see India block like this when it is required. Knowing Kohli he might have thought 480 was gettable on the final day in this test and we might have just collapsed pretty easily while going for it. I wonder what Kohli would have told the team to do if we were in SA's situation.

 

[War]

Series review thoughts

I've always looked at this S Africa # 1 team as a similar style # 1 to:

- England team of the 1950s that were unbeaten from 1951-1958

- Windies for 63-68

- Australia from 72-76

Interestingly all of these teams era's of dominance ended with humbling defeats. England lost 4-0 to Benaud's AUS in 1958/59. Sobers Windies lost 3-1 in AUS 68/69 and AUS lost Ashes 77, 3-0.

So in a lot of ways this SA defeat follows the era ending trend. But is it? Once Steyn is fit for upcoming ENG series & maybe they pick Stephen Cook to opening - they could easily pummel ENG. A 4-prong pace attack of Steyn/Philander/Morkel/Rabada would be the most lethal attack in world cricket hands down.

Their team still is very strong & although it has obviously lost a bit of fire from Smith & Kallis retirements - its going to be interesting to see how they go in future series vs top teams.

This is second big series vs top teams following losing to AUS last year that Amla has lost since taking over captaincy. Therefore pending future results (because judging a teams dynasty is always done in retrospect) - we might be looking at the period of Amla taking over after Smith as the beginning of the end or a small/but significant blimp.


India batting is obviously not as the same level as group in home conditions like when Tendulkar/Sehwag/Dravid/Ganguly/Laxman/Azhar was around - but in Ashwin/Misha/Jadeja, they have a top spin combination again that is on par with what Pakistan have.

No team, especially non-subcontinent is going to be winning in IND again anytime soon. PAK probably have the best chance ha.

It is quite noticeable, even with some of substandard pitches at various points in this series and how bad SA have played spin - that IND spin combo was a level above when ENG won in 2012.

Usually Erapalli Prasanna is held as the best off-spinner than IND ever produced and his place in IND All time XI is generally assured (home conditions). Ashwin at this rate will surpass him by the time 2016 is over both in wickets and legacy, the same way Graeme Swann did over Jim Laker for England.

Also while IND have a history of their quick bowlers starting hot then becoming crap - I liked the look of Ishant/Yadav/Aaron at various points in these series. Would be criminal if they don't perfect their skills and fall away like Munaf, Pathan, Sreesanth, RP Singh etc

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

Agreed, it's the spin combination that India have going for them right now, they've always had decent batting reserves, especially for home conditions, but they've not always been able to count on having world class spinners. their last defeat was obviously to england and it's notable in that series that Ashwin was rubbish, still a tad inexperienced to lead the bowling consistently, and none of the other spinners stepped up. He is undoubtedly their most important player right now, if he can turn into a threat on pitches outside the sub-continent then India have a chance of making inroads away from home again.

not utterly convinced Jadeja is viable at 6 but he's certainly earning his keep with his bowling.

 

[grkrama]

not utterly convinced Jadeja is viable at 6 but he's certainly earning his keep with his bowling.

I think he does best what he does than others in terms of sticking to lines and being smart, i mean even i had him for a dart bowler, but he may turnout to be the best dart bowler at this rate and with his economy and overrate, he is always going to bag the second spinner spot ahead of mishra, who is may be a little more talented with variations and guile but could do with a dose of confidence that ashwin or jadeja have!

In-terms of batting he is going to be just useful chipping in with those 30s- 50s nothing more than that but i think will still be pretty much worth his place if he can keep this bowling up!

I think its the pair of ashwin and jadeja combo that makes it more they do compliment each other well!

 

[grkrama]

It is quite noticeable, even with some of substandard pitches at various points in this series and how bad SA have played spin - that IND spin combo was a level above when ENG won in 2012.

rank turner is not substandard, anyway! if you insist to go by referee report then only Nagpur would fall under that! mohali was more than fine! so were every other wicket in this series!

Im also inclined to say give amla a series more before judging him, while he may have been around a while i think he is still to get reigns on captaincy fully!

Also abbott will be on the sidelines again once philander getsback, He has bowled really well here i can only see him improving more in ENG and other tours! The only advantage i see philander having over abbott is batting!

 

[stefan]

This is second big series vs top teams following losing to AUS last year that Amla has lost since taking over captaincy. Therefore pending future results (because judging a teams dynasty is always done in retrospect) - we might be looking at the period of Amla taking over after Smith as the beginning of the end or a small/but significant blimp.

The home series vs Aus? Pretty sure that was smith's last series as captain. Amla has captained 4 series. The win in sri lanka,the west indies tour to SA, the washout in bangladesh and the indian diaster. England tour will be important to see how his captaincy develops.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I can't see how Steve Smith and David Warner are ahead of Virat Kohli. These two haven't performed at all in India on turning pitches. Warner's technique against the turning ball is terrible. Also yes, currently I would put Williamson ahead of AB because AB does have issues against quality spin bowling (like Ashwin and Jadeja).

You are so out of your depth and so far from reality with your posts that it's laughable. Everyone has their own choices, but let's not manipulate facts with fiction. I'll just like to show you some of AB's achievements against spin.

In the series gone by, De Villiers was the second highest run scorer of the series and to any normal fan, he looked well at home. Cricket is a team sport. In the first innings of the Delhi test, AB looked at absolute ease but he didn't have support from the other end. It happened quite frequently that he ended up batting with the tail and had to bat 'differently' for the sake of the team. In the last innings, he didn't make a hundred, but the vigil was as good as one, if not better. Mind you, that's not his game.

As far as the past is concerned, the man has got double hundreds against Pakistan and India in their own backyard. His double against India came against a bowling attack that consisted of Kumble and Harbhajan, at least equal in stature to Ashwin and Jadeja.

He averages above 50 at home and away, above 50 whether the team bats first or second, above 50 against pace and spin in a career spanning more than a 100 tests. To top it off, he has opened, kept wickets and yo-yo'd a bit in his first half of the career in the batting order.

Since you have a penchant for statistics, here is one to enlighten you.

Numbers Game: The complete batsman | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Lastly, Williamson's record in India pales in comparison to AB's. His hundred at Ahmedabad, came against a bowling attack comprising of Harbhajan Singh and Pragyan Ojha. So technically, Williamson has never made runs against an attack of quality spin bowling like Ashwin and Jadeja. So how do you exactly know he will be able to cope better? Or are you saying that Ojha is better than Kumble because AB got a double against Harbhajan and Kumble.

At this moment in time, AB de Villiers is the best batsman in the world come rain or shine, pace or spin, home or abroad, block or slog, T20 or test. It's perfectly fine to enjoy someone else's way of scoring runs more, quite another to heap praise on them and manipulate an opinion as fact by bringing someone else down.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I meant purely in tests. Overall in both odds and tests I would rate kohl ahead of root. ABD top kohl second alongside Smith and Williamson

Kohli has been better than Root in tests. I'd wait for Root to get some runs in the sub continent before I put him ahead of Kohli.