Team India

[aditya123]

There are lots of fast bowlers who burst into the scene with the ability to bowl at 140-ish but end up compromising on their pace in the end. However most of our seam bowlers are a lot more skilled in swing and seam bowling than their Aussie counterparts. People like Surendar might just pounce on me for saying this but I genuinely believe that. None of them are in great rhythm at the moment and I`d attribute a lot of it to the overkill of T20 cricket. Zaheer,RP, Praveen,Sreesanth and Munaf are all good at making the ball move and all of them bar Praveen bowl at about 135kph. You do not win test matches at venues like Perth, Jo`burg,Jamaica, Nottingham, Hamilton with an hopeless seam attack which many here have portrayed it to be during the Champions Trophy. They are just going through a tough phase at the moment. Even the SA attack conceded 300 twice in this tournament. I would`nt be too harsh on the Indian bowling.

aditya123 added 12 Minutes and 53 Seconds later...

Plus, I cannot understand all the cynicism about the Indian side. We went in with a depleted side and even then we were in with a fair chance of winning against Pakistan during the run chase. The game against Australia got washed out with a full innings left to play. The Aussies have`nt been bowling too great in this tournament as well if you take a look at their game against the Windies as well as today`s semi-final. The South Africans conceded 300+ totals twice as well. Pakistani fast bowling was not too great against us.

We just have to ring in a couple of changes and hopefully with the key players who were injured getting back, we would be roaring again. We just lost one game in this tournament and got knocked out. I hope we pick Sreesanth and Munaf against Australia and allow Ishant to get his rhythm back. I also believe that Harbhajan must be dropped. He does not inspire confidence as someone who has been in the side for a decade must do. He is`nt an attacking option which someone like a Mishra or Ojha or even Piyush Chawla would be. Finally, Yusuf Pathan can get back to playing domestic cricket for Baroda now. We do not need an Afridi-esque hitter at no.7 if he can only deliver once in 15 games. We`d much rather have someone like Nayar or Kohli at that number who can also pace their innings according to the situation. If you look at the position India were in when Yusuf came in to bat, we just needed a run a ball knock at that stage and a 30-odd run knock from Yusuf would have won the game for us.

 

[surendar]

Zaheer,RP, Praveen,Sreesanth and Munaf are all good at making the ball move

Yes, bold ones are actually too good! :banana2 :sarcasm

Dhoni demands more from bowlers and fielders.

"We will reflect on how our bowlers bowled with too much width and how much work we need to put into our fielding department. That needs some work but these things are not going to change overnight. We have to put in much more effort."

Dhoni demands more from bowlers and fielders | Cricket News | ICC Champions Trophy, 2009 | Cricinfo.com

Atleast, am happy that they have realized the rubbish things they did. Like India improving their abroad tour records, they have to sense that they had to improve their records in big tournaments. The records in bigger tournaments have gone down from average to worst!

 

[aditya123]

Yes, bold ones are actually too good! :banana2 :sarcasm



Atleast, am happy that they have realized the rubbish things they did. Like India improving their abroad tour records, they have to sense that they had to improve their records in big tournaments. The records in bigger tournaments have gone down from average to worst!

Sorry Mr.Critic, RP and Munaf are both talented seamers. Ask any Englishman who watched RP Singh bowl in the test series in England in 2007 or look at his efforts in the T20 WC 2007. He is going through a rough patch right now. Fast bowlers do go through phases like this.

India have won the second most number of overseas tests since 2000. You do not win test matches in England, SA , Australia, West Indies and NZ if you have a pathetic pace attack like you make it seem. I agree that they are`nt in the greatest form at the moment and that is mainly because of the overkill of T20s since IPL-I. Why have`nt other sides not won as many tests abroad as India have done in the past few years if all of them boast of a better bowling attack than India? Test matches are won by bowlers,you would know. Harbhajan has done nothing outside India and Kumble only played the role of the support bowler during most of our overseas wins. Even in the Perth test in 2008, Zaheer was injured and it was RP Singh in the first innings who got us the upper hand in that test. Just have a look at that spell before suggesting that he is a total waste. Its easy to criticize but you are giving these guys absolutely no credit at all which is annoying. If all of what you say is to be believed, India would be in the bottom half of the rankings and not be in the top 3 as they are in both forms of he game right now.

I can understand one or two overseas wins but if you look at our record over the past few years, overseas wins have been a norm and not an aberration which clearly tells you a thing or two about the ability (not current form) of the bowling attack. You look at any game played on a helpful track and you`ll see that our bowlers have outperformed their more celebrated counterparts. In the 2008 Perth test, RP,Ishant and Irfan outbowled Lee,Johnson,Tait and Clark. Same was the case with Zaheer and Sreesanth at Jo`burg in 2007. Some of your views on our bowling attack is bordering ridiculous.

 

[surendar]

Jo`burg - today`s - have`nt

Out of curiosity, I want to ask from which you are typing? Not on keyboard? The ' words look too different in your typing, - `.

However most of our seam bowlers are a lot more skilled in swing and seam bowling than their Aussie counterparts. People like Surendar might just pounce on me for saying this but I genuinely believe that.

No, why should I? My frustration was on bowlers and not on members. To my eyes,Aussies fourth seamer - Watson's bowling looks miles better than our strike bowlers you mentioned excluding in-form Zaheer & in-form Ishant.

Fine, I am actually bored with the things which doesn't look changing. It won't be changing either just because we talk about it. Our heated opinions and debates are not going to change their politics too. So from now, I will also say, " Yes, Our bowling is the best! " :banana2 Just for a change...

Sorry Mr.Critic, RP and Munaf are both talented seamers.Ask any Englishman who watched RP Singh bowl in the test series in England in 2007 or look at his efforts in the T20 WC 2007. He is going through a rough patch right now. Fast bowlers do go through phases like this.

Test matches are won by bowlers, if you know.

Sorry I have the worst memory especially when comes to bowlers. :banana2 I remember only Zaheer in England, Zaheer/Sreesanth in SA, Zaheer/Ishant in NZ and Ishant in Australia along with Kumble - Harbhajan's support.

surendar added 16 Minutes and 54 Seconds later...

Some of your views on our bowling attack is bordering ridiculous.

If you actually look into the cause of failure in major tournaments, the bowling stands number 1.

1999 WC - Did you forget the extra columns which exceeded 50? that too against Zim.
2003 WC - Yes there was some outstanding performances including Nehra's 6 wickets haul. But the finals? Yes, it all counts in major tournaments. This tournament would be my only exceptional scenario where team effort was there after severe reaction fans in home town on players' properties.
CT in England - Wow, great bowling! :hpraise
CT in India - Exceptional spells by Munaf and Pathan. :banana2
WC 2007 - Brilliant bowling display by Agarkar, Munaf. Especially against Bermuda.
CT 2009 - RP takes the lead from bowlers point of view.

Are you aware of India's records of CB/world series excluding the last one. I don't want to include last CB series because, I have high respect on Zaheer-Ishant-Sachin. Forgot Balaji's brilliant full toss ball to a six by Lee? Forgot the loss despite Yuvi/Laxman's century? Forgot the match saving struggle against Zimbabwe while defending the target where Erwine/Carlisle stole the show?

Without any doubts, similar to what aditya said, Yes we always have/had better bowling attack than mighty looking Australia.

 

[SaiSrini]

I feel the problem could be with Venkatesh Prasad being a bowling coach. Anyways he has been there for too long a period. He took over after we exit the 2007 World Cup. Why not try for some new person for both the bowling and fielding coach positions? Prasad concentrates too much on line and length and in the process, the pace goes for a toss. He himself was very slow for a medium fast bowler. We need someone like Akram (not exactly him!) to tell our bowlers that speed should not be compromised with, and the bowlers should learn to get their line and length with the speed that they started off with. Ishant should be bowling late 140's constantly with a good line and length.

Robin Singh should also be replaced. I have seen Indian fielders go from average to worse in recent times. I was frankly surprised to see some of the safest Indian fielders spill so many chances and make so many mistakes on their ground fielding. Maybe the right attention is not going into the process. People will say that the players will have to make the commitment if they got to field well. Well I disagree. Its the coach's job to make sure that the players commit themselves. The coach is not teaching them, he is making them commit themselves. A foreign fielding coach can do good with the boys, and we should look for an Indian bowling coach. Maybe TA Sekar (who manages the MRF pace academy) would be a good guy who can help our fast bowlers.

For tests, Zaheer-Ishant-RP-Sreesanth-Munaf will be good enough. But we need bowlers who can bowl good line and length at the pace that they started off with.

 

[surendar]

I feel the problem could be with Venkatesh Prasad being a bowling coach. He himself was very slow for a medium fast bowler.

When I told the same point ( exactly the same including Wasim suggestion ), you people pounced back in favor of Prasad long time back. Truth always look bitter at first, and just because it's bitter that doesn't mean that person is cynical or pessimist. We have to accept the fact, easy or tough and that is life.

Robin Singh should also be replaced. I have seen Indian fielders go from average to worse in recent times. I was frankly surprised to see some of the safest Indian fielders spill so many chances and make so many mistakes on their ground fielding. Maybe the right attention is not going into the process. People will say that the players will have to make the commitment if they got to field well. Well I disagree. Its the coach's job to make sure that the players commit themselves. The coach is not teaching them, he is making them commit themselves. A foreign fielding coach can do good with the boys, and we should look for an Indian bowling coach. Maybe TA Sekar (who manages the MRF pace academy) would be a good guy who can help our fast bowlers.

To be honest, do we need so many coaches like foreign fielding coach, foreign bowling coach? I don't think so. We still had the best slips catcher - Azhar without any coaching and we still had a good swing/fast/slow bowler - Srinath without coaching. They are not school kids to teach. It's all upto the commitment and practice.

I don't even think that our bowlers utilize the MRF pace academy or do they? I always hear some foreign bowlers come and utilize it and get advantage from it! :sarcasm

" 10 days of attending MRF pace academy/month except during international tours " should be made mandatory for all bowlers. :readit

For tests, Zaheer-Ishant-RP-Sreesanth-Munaf will be good enough. But we need bowlers who can bowl good line and length at the pace that they started off with.

That is a brilliant point. Munaf was brilliant in his first Ind-England test series. I still remember Dravid's wordings in presentation ceremony, " We atlast found the bowler we needed! ". But I don't know why our bowlers alone degrade from the point they start with. Munaf and Irfan Pathan fall under the same category i.e. degraded after starting their careers with brilliance.

 

[SaiSrini]

When I told the same point ( exactly the same including Wasim suggestion ), you people pounced back in favor of Prasad long time back. Truth always look bitter at first, and just because it's bitter that doesn't mean that person is cynical or pessimist. We have to accept the fact, easy or tough and that is life.

To be honest, do we need so many coaches like foreign fielding coach, foreign bowling coach? I don't think so. We still had the best slips catcher - Azhar without any coaching and we still had a good swing/fast/slow bowler - Srinath without coaching. They are not school kids to teach. It's all upto the commitment and practice.

I don't even think that our bowlers utilize the MRF pace academy or do they? I always hear some foreign bowlers come and utilize it and get advantage from it! :sarcasm

" 10 days of attending MRF pace academy/month except during international tours " should be made mandatory for all bowlers. :readit

That is a brilliant point. Munaf was brilliant in his first Ind-England test series. I still remember Dravid's wordings in presentation ceremony, " We atlast found the bowler we needed! ". But I don't know why our bowlers alone degrade from the point they start with. Munaf and Irfan Pathan fall under the same category i.e. degraded after starting their careers with brilliance.

But we cant deny that Prasad initially worked really well with our bowlers and it was during his period that the Indian fast bowling looked in the best of health. We were hailing it at that time when all the bowlers came in and performed well. But as with John Wright, Prasad is past his expiry date and right now does not seem to be handling the bowlers well. Same with Robin Singh. Under his period, Indian fielding never really picked up.

We dont need a foreign bowling coach. Just a foreign fielding coach. Because fielding has never been inculcated in our blood whereas people from the West countries give lot of emphasis to fielding and would be better to coach us. For bowling, TA Sekar is a good guy because he works extensively with the Indian fast bowling. Kapil Dev could have been a good option but he is with the rebels. Srinath is a referee now though he could also be given a chance if he is interested. Or maybe give Kumble the responsibility. He was once upon a time a seam up bowler who then became a spinner. And he is a very sharp brain and would lay emphasis on the right things.

While Azhar/Jadeja were good fielders, we had so many mediocre and pathetic fielders around them. And those days the importance of fielding wasnt emphasised much. But now after the advent of T20 and the change in attacking style in ODI's, fielding almost wins and loses matches.

 

[SciD]

Its time to see what Sangwan can do. Ishant should be asked to get some meat in his body.

 

[SciD]

Get this Utthapa back in ODI team. He is way better than Karthik.

Can this thread be moved to Cricket Discussions now?

 

[SaiSrini]

Ratnakar Shetty, the Indian board's chief administrative officer, has expressed concern over the lack of focus among younger national players who, he said, were not greatly affected by the ICC Champions Trophy exit because they were distracted by a lifestyle outside the sport.

"One of the senior players called up after the Champions Trophy and said other players [youngsters] did not feel it [the loss as much as him], Shetty told PTI. "He said there was no feeling whether we won or not. There is no sadness [after losing]."

Some of these youngsters have become very big. Some of them feel that playing in Ranji Trophy is not as important as playing in the IPL."

Shetty concerned by younger players' attitude | India Cricket News | Cricinfo.com

This guy though he looks like he is speaking the truth, is now going to be rapped on his knuckles for talking these words. He has let out to the world a very serious problem thats already started plaguing Indian cricket and is going to continue plaguing our cricket until we find a way to redress the balance and restore international cricket as the ultimate goal for all of our cricketers. I completely believe in his words. For example, RP Singh was horribly bad in the ICC Champions Trophy and in the first game of the Champions League, he bowls brilliantly to pick up 3 wickets for Deccan Chargers. I feel Suresh Raina is in a similar boat. I guess the senior player who is being refered to is probably Rahul Dravid.