Tendulkar v Inzamam TEST CRICKET ONLY

[Insomniac]

From a completely neutral perspective.

We have two excellent cricketers. I think Inzy was slightly easier to have a plan against. Not saying it was easy to bowl to him, but I always felt we had some kind of plan which could work. It's only very slightly then that Sachin is the better player.

The only thing with Sachin is you just bowl defensively to him till theres a tiny bit of pressure.

Then he presents his wicket to you

zMario added 0 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

No he doesn't.

He sits there, and he tries to fool the umpire into thinking that hes not out when he is.

The umpire gives him out. Sachin shakes his head viciously, and acts like he should have not been given out. Then he puts up a T signal.

And then the replays on the big screen show Tendulkar's bat was NOWHERE near the ball, and he was struck in front of the stumps. Plumb LBW. THe umpire gives the decision.

Then Sachin goes off the field, shaking his head and how he should be not out.

And when he decides to get injured, he starts giving players out from the dressing room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlkvCSO0-7E

Fast forward to the LBW appeal, and then I believe 1:35 - 1:45 and watch Tendulkar's BS

I'm quoting myself so chetan doesn't decide to conveniently not see this.

 

[SaiSrini]

And you've received counter-counter arguments, which you guys don't even respond to.

Instead you fall back on the oh, Sachin's average is higher, so he's better.

Ridiculous.

I'm sorry Inzamam wasn't born in India, boohoo, oh you guys wish you could have a master-class batsman who could save your team from losing when Sachin chokes.

Oh, are you my inner conscious? How do you know that I'm arguing that Sachin is better because his average is higher? All your counter-counter arguments have also been answered.

You guys now seem to be resorting to teasing to invoke Sachin and his fans. We are not giving up for that. India would never ever want Inzamam Ul Haq to be a part of their team. Had Inzamam been an Indian, he would never have got into the national team. Had Sachin been a part of any other cricket playing country in the world, he would have easily got into anyone of them.

 

[Insomniac]

Oh, are you my inner conscious? How do you know that I'm arguing that Sachin is better because his average is higher? All your counter-counter arguments have also been answered.

You guys now seem to be resorting to teasing to invoke Sachin and his fans. We are not giving up for that. India would never ever want Inzamam Ul Haq to be a part of their team. Had Inzamam been an Indian, he would never have got into the national team. Had Sachin been a part of any other cricket playing country in the world, he would have easily got into anyone of them.

Are you serious? If Inzamam was an Indian, he would WALK into the Indian team.

Almost none of the Indian players except Rahul Dravid can handle pressure.

Tendulkar FAILS everytime. And you know it. A few pages back, we've posted SO MANY examples where Tendulkar CHOKES when he should have taken his team to a victory.

And you know it. The only reason you guys are like Tendulkar this, Tendulkar that, is because he's the highest run getter. Too bad he can't win matches for India.

 

[SaiSrini]

The only thing with Sachin is you just bowl defensively to him till theres a tiny bit of pressure.

Then he presents his wicket to you

zMario added 0 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...


I'm quoting myself so chetan doesn't decide to conveniently not see this.

And the thing is, Inzamam can get out even when he'z not facing the strike (he can get out as he can run himself out when the other batsman is facing the strike). Friend, I can also do this!

@ that video: Even I felt that was OUT. So you mean to say Sachin is giving the decision from the dressing room and is trying to influence the umpire? He felt it was out, and he says so in an animated and physical manner.

 

[Sureshot]

Can I also say, that we move this into a friendly, well constructed debate. I have dealt with the problem posts (and user). I feel this can be a good discussion, but I (and the staff team) will be keeping an eye on it.

The only thing with Sachin is you just bowl defensively to him till theres a tiny bit of pressure.

Then he presents his wicket to you

Can't say I agree with that. No player of his class gives his wicket away as simply as that. Were it the case he wouldn't have scored the 70 odd international centuries (I think it is 70 odd, don't quote me on that figure though)

Sai, can you explain why you think, "If Inzy were an Indian he wouldn't have played for the side"? I don't know what you are getting at. He's clearly good enough for any international side (or was, I should say). Something wrong about his attitude/temperament.

 

[SaiSrini]

Are you serious? If Inzamam was an Indian, he would WALK into the Indian team.

Almost none of the Indian players except Rahul Dravid can handle pressure.

Tendulkar FAILS everytime. And you know it. A few pages back, we've posted SO MANY examples where Tendulkar CHOKES when he should have taken his team to a victory.

And you know it. The only reason you guys are like Tendulkar this, Tendulkar that, is because he's the highest run getter. Too bad he can't win matches for India.

Impossible. we know India better. INZAMAM would never walk into the Indian team. On the contrary, his condition would be worser than many other players in India who are good players but have not got chances. And we wouldnt want to have a character like Inzamam in our team with his arrogant and brash attitude (remember, the argument is about 'cricketer').

 

[Insomniac]

And the thing is, Inzamam can get out even when he'z not facing the strike (he can get out as he can run himself out when the other batsman is facing the strike). Friend, I can also do this!

@ that video: Even I felt that was OUT. So you mean to say Sachin is giving the decision from the dressing room and is trying to influence the umpire? He felt it was out, and he says so in an animated and physical manner.

I also felt it was out, but Sachin cannot do that.

He simply can't. The Indian fans got upset at Ponting for giving a batsman out (was one of the low catches).

And now you're saying Sachin can give a batsman out? Same thing mate. You guys were all over Ponting when he did that, and now you're deciding to have double standards when Tendulkar does it?

zMario added 1 Minutes and 56 Seconds later...

Impossible. we know India better. INZAMAM would never walk into the Indian team. On the contrary, his condition would be worser than many other players in India who are good players but have not got chances. And we wouldnt want to have a character like Inzamam in our team with his arrogant and brash attitude (remember, the argument is about 'cricketer').

Where is Inzamam arrogant and brash?

You're yet to show me where Sachin is a sportsman.

Inzamam arrogant? Since when? I've met him, and he is like the really big guy at school you don't wanna get in a fight with, but later you find out he is a nice guy.

You're yet to tell me why Sachin has to convince the umpires he's edged a ball when he hasn't.

 

[SaiSrini]

Sai, can you explain why you think, "If Inzy were an Indian he wouldn't have played for the side"? I don't know what you are getting at. He's clearly good enough for any international side (or was, I should say). Something wrong about his attitude/temperament.

Mentioned it above in my post. Of course, its about the attitude/temperament. His fitness, his running, etc.

 

[Insomniac]

Can I also say, that we move this into a friendly, well constructed debate. I have dealt with the problem posts (and user). I feel this can be a good discussion, but I (and the staff team) will be keeping an eye on it.



Can't say I agree with that. No player of his class gives his wicket away as simply as that. Were it the case he wouldn't have scored the 70 odd international centuries (I think it is 70 odd, don't quote me on that figure though)

Sai, can you explain why you think, "If Inzy were an Indian he wouldn't have played for the side"? I don't know what you are getting at. He's clearly good enough for any international side (or was, I should say). Something wrong about his attitude/temperament.

Sureshot, let me quote some previous replies which should answer your question. Tendulkar has done it SO MANY times in his career its not funny.

Another SPLENDID performance under pressure by Sachin Tendulkar

By the way, this photo goes with that performance.

Now heres another story.

Asian Test Championship, Dravid bowled by Akhtar.

In comes Tendulkar. The crowd goes BESERK at Eden Gardens.

In comes Akhtar. GONE, YORKED. Another FANTASTIC Under-Pressure innings by Sachin Tendulkar.

Crowd is stunned. Tendulkar walks back, since he could not handle the pressure. India were under pressure because of all the hype around him because of Akhtar. And Akhtar blasted his middle stump out.

A video is available on youtube.

A second story. First test between India and Pakistan in 1999, taking place in Chennai.

Pakistan struggle along to 240 odd in the first innings.

India make 260 in reply.

In the second innings Afridi scores 141 and the rest of the Pakistani batsmen play around him. Pakistan 290 (?) all out, India require 271 to win.

The chase begins badly, with Ramesh and Laxman out, India 6-2.

Dravid and the rest fall, with Sachin surviving a few LBW shouts and caught behinds.

Sachin survives to 218-6.

Sachin starts playing Saqlain nicely, and is about to take India home.

Till Sachin chokes. He decides to hit Saqlain over everyone's head. He's caught easily at mid-off.

He could have easily taken India home, had he played sensibly, and nudged the ones and twos and all.

But no, I have to hit a big shot, I'm Sachin Tendulkar.

India lost the test match and the series by 12 runs.

What a game of test match cricket. And what could have been, for India, had Sachin not choked.

No I will not.

What is the worth of a player who scores great innings and then cracks/chokes when he is needed by his team the most!

In 2000 against South Africa, Sachin scored 97 in the first innings. Great knock, no doubt. In the second innings, India trying to set a target, he completely flops [8(11)] and India only set a target of 164. And jsut to remember, South Africa lost 6 wickets in that chase. Had Sachin stayed around for his team, and controlled his choking instinct, they could have easily set 50-75 more runs, and India would have won the match and SERIES.

And thats only the start, theres SO MANY more examples.

Right from the top of my head, India and Australia.

I believe, 1997. Tendulkar scores a fanastic 160 odd in the first innings.

India 440 all out

Australia respond with 400

Then, in the 2nd innings, Tendulkar goes cheapily when the team needed him to set Australia a big total. He hits the ball straight up in the air, fielder comes under it (may have been bowler)

He was out for 40 odd, so he had a start.

When India needed Sachin, he decided to try to obliterate the bowler, and got out. India bowled out for 140 or 150.

Australia win quite easily.

When the pressure was on, Sachin did not perform, but if he had, India would have had a very good chance of winning the test.

And various more, I can name so many.

 

[SaiSrini]

I also felt it was out, but Sachin cannot do that.

He simply can't. The Indian fans got upset at Ponting for giving a batsman out (was one of the low catches).

And now you're saying Sachin can give a batsman out? Same thing mate. You guys were all over Ponting when he did that, and now you're deciding to have double standards when Tendulkar does it?

zMario added 1 Minutes and 56 Seconds later...


Where is Inzamam arrogant and brash?

You're yet to show me where Sachin is a sportsman.

Inzamam arrogant? Since when? I've met him, and he is like the really big guy at school you don't wanna get in a fight with, but later you find out he is a nice guy.

You're yet to tell me why Sachin has to convince the umpires he's edged a ball when he hasn't.

Hey, Ponting gave that decision to the umpire. Sachin didnt give this to the umpire. You cant get the difference between these two situations?

There have been so many instances where Sachin is a sportsman. Will tell abt some instances after I think of one of it from the top of my head (doesnt mean I am struggling to think of it, its about too many to count).

 

[Insomniac]

Mentioned it above in my post. Of course, its about the attitude/temperament. His fitness, his running, etc.

He has long strides you know - he's not as bad as Salman Butt or Mohammad Yousuf.

And I don't get this temperament problem you speak of. If he didn't have a good temperament to stay at the crease, how did he manage the pressure situations so well?

zMario added 1 Minutes and 21 Seconds later...

Hey, Ponting gave that decision to the umpire. Sachin didnt give this to the umpire. You cant get the difference between these two situations?

There have been so many instances where Sachin is a sportsman. Will tell abt some instances after I think of one of it from the top of my head (doesnt mean I am struggling to think of it, its about too many to count).

Too many to count?

Tell me then, if Sachin wasn't doing it to the umpire, why was he doing it? HE POINTED HIS FINGER WHEN THE BIG SCREEN WAS ON HIM.

He looked at the big screen, when he saw he was there he raised his finger. Tell me WHY he did that? Maybe its to signal to the umpires they're wrong?

Pure hypocrisy - double standards mate. If you condemn Ponting doing it, you have to condemn your sportsman figure Sachin Tendulkar.

 

[SaiSrini]

He has long strides you know - he's not as bad as Salman Butt or Mohammad Yousuf.

And I don't get this temperament problem you speak of. If he didn't have a good temperament to stay at the crease, how did he manage the pressure situations so well?

fighting within your own team is what you call 'good attitude/temperament'? Fighting with the spectators and physically assaulting them (even if they call you 'potato', 'tomato', etc). How many players have gone to Australia and have received racial abuse from the crowds? did they ever get into the crowd and assault the concerned spectators? there have been lots of stories about how inzamam has a camp for himself within his team (now you will say even ganguly had it, but we are talking abt tendulkar here, not ganguly).

saisrini80 added 2 Minutes and 25 Seconds later...

He has long strides you know - he's not as bad as Salman Butt or Mohammad Yousuf.

And I don't get this temperament problem you speak of. If he didn't have a good temperament to stay at the crease, how did he manage the pressure situations so well?

zMario added 1 Minutes and 21 Seconds later...


Too many to count?

Tell me then, if Sachin wasn't doing it to the umpire, why was he doing it? HE POINTED HIS FINGER WHEN THE BIG SCREEN WAS ON HIM.

He looked at the big screen, when he saw he was there he raised his finger. Tell me WHY he did that? Maybe its to signal to the umpires they're wrong?

Pure hypocrisy - double standards mate. If you condemn Ponting doing it, you have to condemn your sportsman figure Sachin Tendulkar.

Sorry, I am not hyping this trivial issue to the standards that you are hyping it to be. From the dressing room, he will look distant to the players. So I can say that he was using the big screen to point to the players instead of the umpire. I can also use his reactions cleverly like this.

Ok before anyone says I have run away, I'm off to class now. See you all tomorrow.

 

[Insomniac]

fighting within your own team is what you call 'good attitude/temperament'? Fighting with the spectators and physically assaulting them (even if they call you 'potato', 'tomato', etc). How many players have gone to Australia and have received racial abuse from the crowds? did they ever get into the crowd and assault the concerned spectators? there have been lots of stories about how inzamam has a camp for himself within his team (now you will say even ganguly had it, but we are talking abt tendulkar here, not ganguly).

saisrini80 added 2 Minutes and 25 Seconds later...



Sorry, I am not hyping this trivial issue to the standards that you are hyping it to be. From the dressing room, he will look distant to the players. So I can say that he was using the big screen to point to the players instead of the umpire. I can also use his reactions cleverly like this.

When did Inzamam "fight" in his team? Wasn't that Shoaib Akhtar? Trying to combine personalities I see.

Ah, you mention the ONE incident Inzamam has had. But that had nothing to do with his cricket . Besides, who the hell let him in with a megaphone.

I've never heard of the stories you're talking about (Inzamam having a camp for himself) - what BS. Do you read crap newspapers like the Times of India and get your news from them? Seems like it

zMario added 6 Minutes and 12 Seconds later...

fighting within your own team is what you call 'good attitude/temperament'? Fighting with the spectators and physically assaulting them (even if they call you 'potato', 'tomato', etc). How many players have gone to Australia and have received racial abuse from the crowds? did they ever get into the crowd and assault the concerned spectators? there have been lots of stories about how inzamam has a camp for himself within his team (now you will say even ganguly had it, but we are talking abt tendulkar here, not ganguly).

saisrini80 added 2 Minutes and 25 Seconds later...



Sorry, I am not hyping this trivial issue to the standards that you are hyping it to be. From the dressing room, he will look distant to the players. So I can say that he was using the big screen to point to the players instead of the umpire. I can also use his reactions cleverly like this.

Ok before anyone says I have run away, I'm off to class now. See you all tomorrow.

Is Sachin that much of an idiot then if he's using the big screen?

Its obvious he was waiting till he was on the big screen, you know it, I know it.

Whether it was for the players or the umpires to see, it doesn't matter one bit. He knew what he was doing.

 

[Sureshot]

I think most players succumb to pressure at some point. Otherwise it wouldn't be pressure. All teams do as well. Australians probably do it the least, but put them under enough pressure and they will fail. (Tri-Series when Collingwood was on fire for instance).

I'm not saying he doesn't fail under pressure, I am pointing out that most (if not all) players succumb to pressure. I'd love to hear of some players who don't, I can't think of any off the top of my head.

 

[Ollie_H]

I have to say while reading through this zMario seems to be winning this arguement hands down! He has offered up so many different arguements with back ups! Where as the Indians mainly from what I can see sai just has nothing really to say back!