Tendulkar v Inzamam TEST CRICKET ONLY

[aditya123]

So harrypotter_fan

Do you want India to win or Sachin to score? Tell me, right now, because I think you're one of those I want Sachin to make a 100, if it means India has to lose people.





The Indian bowling line up has the currently fourth highest wicket-taker.

Are you saying Kumble is crap and can't bowl? Besides, you guys had V. Prasad and Javagal Srinath.

Exactly - Sachin Tendulkar is an individual who plays for himself in test match cricket. Thus, India don't win as often as they could.

Overseas tours: Pak tie 1-1 in NZ, Pak tie 1-1 in England, Sharjah - Pak win 2-0 v WI, to India, drawn 1-1, 2005. to WI, drawn 1-1. to SL, won 1-0. to England, lost 2-0 (should be won 2-1, but thanks to a certain Darrell Hair..), toured SA, lost 2-1. No away tests since.

Besides, this is a Tendulkar v Inzamam thread, not a Pakistan v India and how they fare against other teams thread.

Once again, can you please explain to me, why 33% of Sachin's 100s are in a winning cause, yet 68% of Inzamam's are in a winning cause?

zMario added 1 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...


Wow, Tendulkar plays one innings of pressure.

Brilliant, now Tendulkar is better than Inzamam.

zMario added 2 Minutes and 9 Seconds later...


Well , I reckon you rate Wisden highly as well too



As you can see, even Wisden missed out on the greatness of Inzamam-ul-Haq because there is no statistic for handling pressure.



Read that - it was on Ten Sports a week or 2 ago.

You conveniently seem to ignore most parts of the argument and just pick up a part of it.I said I was only quoting an example.

But I gave you 12 test matches, all of them recent and against the best sides in the world which Pakistan got whitewashed.
Why could Inzy not save them if he was the superhero that you are talking about ?
If you cannot give a reason or the reason is not any different to what I gave for Tendulkar not being able to win matches in the 1990s , I shall assume that Inzy was just a selfish player who could not win tests against the best sides when it mattered.
He had the support of Younis and Yousuf in the last couple of series against Australia aand in England in 2006, but you still got whitewashed.

 

[Harrypotter_fan]

Why don't you understand? I want India to win, but unlike you I appreciate the player who played well. And the reason more percent of Inzy hundreds were match winning is that he has got less hundreds than Sachin. So even if both have won the same number of matches for their team, Inzy's win-hundred percent will be better as he has scored less overall hundreds.

 

[Highlander999]

Wow, zMario, do you want to ease up slightly?

 

[pal]

Oh god, another nine pages have been added since I went to sleep. I have briefly glanced at most of them. zMario's plan of attack seems to be harping on the fact that Inzamam has averaged higher in Pakistani wins (while ignoring the fact that Inzamam fails miserably in Pakistani losses/draws compared to Tendulkar) and citing arbitrary matches were Sachin has failed to perform. I've already responded to those points, but apparently, he hasn't understood that posting random matches means nothing, when in a career of 150 test matches and 417 ODIs, Sachin has won and saved many more.

But, if that's game you want to play, here are matches were Inzamam choked under pressure:

1. Pakistan vs. Zimbabwe (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63824.html)

Inzamam scores a gigantic 19 in Pakistan's first innings against a bowling lineup containing the likes of Olonga, Mbangwa, and Whittal. Zimbabwe falls behind by 58 runs in its first innings. All Pakistan needs to do is set a decent score to win the match. Inzamam, typically, comes in and scores a tremendous 2 runs and helps Pakistan build a total of 103. Zimbabwe ends up winning the match, no thanks to Inzamam succeeding under pressure and scoring 21 in two innings.

2. Pakistan vs. Australia (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/64113.html)

Australia scores 381 in its first innings. Inzamam responds with an imposing 1 in Pakistan's innings. Australia declare at 361. Inzamam, being the pressure-free batsman he is, falls for a mighty 0 in Pakistan's innings of 72.

3. Pakistan vs. India (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/64083.html)

Inzamam posts a monumental 15 in Pakistan's first innings of 224 against a forceful bowling lineup that was composed of the likes of Balaji and Pathan. India responds with a score of 600. It comes to Inzamam to save the match for Pakistan and being the unchokeable batsman he is, he scores 9, which, unfortunately, results in Pakistan losing by an innings and 131 runs.

4. Pakistan vs. Sri Lanka (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63873.html)

Inzamam scores 58 in Pakistan's first innings and all is good in the world of zMario. Pakistan needs 294 to win in its second innnings and is poised well for the victory at 77/1, when the impervious Inzamam comes in to save the match. He, typically, falls for the heroic score of 9 and Pakistan crumbles to a score of 236 and loses the match.

5. Pakistan vs. Sri Lanka (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63692.html)

Pakistan scores 214 in its first innings, in response to Sri Lanka's 232 (with Inzamam contributing 21). Pakistan needs 357 to win and Inzamam comes in at a precarious 7/2 to save the day. And lo and behold! He scores a possibly match-saving 0, while the rest of the team fails to live up to the billing and falls for 212.

6. Pakistan vs. New Zealand (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63727.html)

Pakistan scores 191 in response to New Zealand's 155. Inzamam is the star of the innings with a score of 0. Pakistan needs just 276 to win the match. Inzamam plays a typically heroic innings of 14, while, once again, his team fails to live up to his heroism and falls for 231.

These are just a few examples of matches where Inzamam chokes under pressure.

But, to be honest, this is a futile exercise. All batsmen have failed under pressure. Posting scorecards of such matches, as you have done incessantly in the past 27 pages, means nothing, if you ignore the bigger picture. Inzamam was a big part of Pakistani victories, but he was a bigger (or lesser) part of Pakistani losses and draws, averaging a weak 35 when his team most needed him. I still consider him to be a great batsman, but none of your arguments so far have proved him to be a better batsman than Tendulkar (or Ponting or Lara).

 

[Karachi Xpress]

Why don't you understand? I want India to win, but unlike you I appreciate the player who played well. And the reason more percent of Inzy hundreds were match winning is that he has got less hundreds than Sachin. So even if both have won the same number of matches for their team, Inzy's win-hundred percent will be better as he has scored less overall hundreds.

But he could have scored 100s in matches that Pakistan lost too right?? But he scored in matches they won. So doesn't really make a difference. What zMario is saying is that he has a better match winning average than Sachin...

 

[Insomniac]

You conveniently seem to ignore most parts of the argument and just pick up a part of it.I said I was only quoting an example.

But I gave you 12 test matches, all of them recent and against the best sides in the world which Pakistan got whitewashed.
Why could Inzy not save them if he was the superhero that you are talking about ?
If you cannot give a reason or the reason is not any different to what I gave for Tendulkar not being able to win matches in the 1990s , I shall assume that Inzy was just a selfish player who could not win tests against the best sides when it mattered.
He had the support of Younis and Yousuf in the last couple of series against Australia aand in England in 2006, but you still got whitewashed.

Lets not even get started on the England tour.

First of all, you Indian fans were WHINING and WALING about Steve Bucknor and how he cost you the match and possibly the series.

That may be so, but we lost the England series thanks to Darrell Hair. So please stop this BS about how we lost in England when you well know we got screwed over

Regarding the Australian tour, please don't get me started about your shameful performances in New Zealand.

 

[Harrypotter_fan]

And I say that match-win-average isn't everything.

 

[Insomniac]

Why don't you understand? I want India to win, but unlike you I appreciate the player who played well. And the reason more percent of Inzy hundreds were match winning is that he has got less hundreds than Sachin. So even if both have won the same number of matches for their team, Inzy's win-hundred percent will be better as he has scored less overall hundreds.

I appreciate batsmen who played well as well, but I appreciate batsmen more who took their team to victory.

And thats the difference.

zMario added 0 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...

And I say that match-win-average isn't everything.

Then what is everything? We are trying to figure out which batsman helps their team the most in winning a match.

Inzamam's 77+ average shows that he helps his team win more than Sachin Tendulkar, correct? Yes, it is.

 

[metallics2006]

Oh god, another nine pages have been added since I went to sleep. I have briefly glanced at most of them. zMario's plan of attack seems to be harping on the fact that Inzamam has averaged higher in Pakistani wins (while ignoring the fact that Inzamam fails miserably in Pakistani losses/draws compared to Tendulkar) and citing arbitrary matches were Sachin has failed to perform. I've already responded to those points, but apparently, he hasn't understood that posting random matches means nothing, when in a career of 150 test matches and 417 ODIs, he has won and saved many more.

But, if that's game you want to play, here are matches were Inzamam choked under pressure:

1. Pakistan vs. Zimbabwe (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/stat...tch/63824.html)

Inzamam scores a gigantic 19 in Pakistan's first innings against a bowling lineup containing the likes of Olonga, Mbangwa, and Whittal. Zimbabwe falls behind by 58 runs in its first innings. All Pakistan needs to do is set a decent score to win the match. Inzamam, typically, comes in and scores a tremendous 2 runs and helps Pakistan build a total of 103. Zimbabwe ends up winning the match, no thanks to Inzamam succeeding under pressure and scoring 21 in two innings.

2. Pakistan vs. Australia (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/stat...tch/64113.html)

Australia scores 381 in its first innings. Inzamam responds with an imposing 1 in Pakistan's innings. Australia declare at 361. Inzamam, being the pressure-free batsman he is, falls for a mighty 0 in Pakistan's innings of 72.

3. Pakistan vs. India (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/stat...tch/64083.html)

Inzamam posts a monumental 15 in Pakistan's first innings of 224 against a forceful bowling lineup that was composed of the likes of Balaji and Pathan. India responds with a score of 600. It comes to Inzamam to save the match for Pakistan and being the unchokeable batsman he is, he scores 9, which, unfortunately, results in Pakistan losing by an innings and 131 runs.

4. Pakistan vs. Sri Lanka (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/stat...tch/63873.html)

Inzamam scores 58 in Pakistan's first innings and all is good in the world of zMario. Pakistan needs 294 to win in its second innnings and is poised well for the victory at 77/1, when the impervious Inzamam comes in to save the match. He, typically, falls for the heroic score of 9 and Pakistan crumbles to a score of 236 and loses the match.

5. Pakistan vs. Sri Lanka (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/stat...tch/63692.html)

Pakistan scores 214 in its first innings, in response to Sri Lanka's 232 (with Inzamam contributing 21). Pakistan needs 357 to win and Inzamam comes in at a precarious 7/2 to save the day. And lo and behold! He scores a possibly match-saving 0, while the rest of the team fails to live up to the billing and falls for 212.

6. Pakistan vs. New Zealand (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/stat...tch/63727.html)

Pakistan scores 191 in response to New Zealand's 155. Inzamam is the star of the innings with a score of 0. Pakistan needs just 276 to win the match. Inzamam plays a typically heroic innings of 14, while, once again, his team fails to live up to his heroism and falls for 231.

These are just a few examples of matches where Inzamam chokes under pressure.

But, to be honest, this is a futile exercise. All batsmen have failed under pressure. Posting scorecards of such matches, as you have done incessantly in the past 27 pages, means nothing, if you ignore the bigger picture. Inzamam was a big part of Pakistani victories, but he was a bigger (or lesser) part of Pakistani losses and draws, averaging a weak 35 when his team most needed him. I still consider him to be a great batsman, but none of your arguments so far have proved him to be a better batsman than Tendulkar (or Ponting or Lara).

I second that.:rtfl:rtfl

 

[Insomniac]

Oh god, another nine pages have been added since I went to sleep. I have briefly glanced at most of them. zMario's plan of attack seems to be harping on the fact that Inzamam has averaged higher in Pakistani wins (while ignoring the fact that Inzamam fails miserably in Pakistani losses/draws compared to Tendulkar) and citing arbitrary matches were Sachin has failed to perform. I've already responded to those points, but apparently, he hasn't understood that posting random matches means nothing, when in a career of 150 test matches and 417 ODIs, Sachin has won and saved many more.

But, if that's game you want to play, here are matches were Inzamam choked under pressure:

1. Pakistan vs. Zimbabwe (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63824.html)

Inzamam scores a gigantic 19 in Pakistan's first innings against a bowling lineup containing the likes of Olonga, Mbangwa, and Whittal. Zimbabwe falls behind by 58 runs in its first innings. All Pakistan needs to do is set a decent score to win the match. Inzamam, typically, comes in and scores a tremendous 2 runs and helps Pakistan build a total of 103. Zimbabwe ends up winning the match, no thanks to Inzamam succeeding under pressure and scoring 21 in two innings.

2. Pakistan vs. Australia (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/64113.html)

Australia scores 381 in its first innings. Inzamam responds with an imposing 1 in Pakistan's innings. Australia declare at 361. Inzamam, being the pressure-free batsman he is, falls for a mighty 0 in Pakistan's innings of 72.

3. Pakistan vs. India (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/64083.html)

Inzamam posts a monumental 15 in Pakistan's first innings of 224 against a forceful bowling lineup that was composed of the likes of Balaji and Pathan. India responds with a score of 600. It comes to Inzamam to save the match for Pakistan and being the unchokeable batsman he is, he scores 9, which, unfortunately, results in Pakistan losing by an innings and 131 runs.

4. Pakistan vs. Sri Lanka (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63873.html)

Inzamam scores 58 in Pakistan's first innings and all is good in the world of zMario. Pakistan needs 294 to win in its second innnings and is poised well for the victory at 77/1, when the impervious Inzamam comes in to save the match. He, typically, falls for the heroic score of 9 and Pakistan crumbles to a score of 236 and loses the match.

5. Pakistan vs. Sri Lanka (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63692.html)

Pakistan scores 214 in its first innings, in response to Sri Lanka's 232 (with Inzamam contributing 21). Pakistan needs 357 to win and Inzamam comes in at a precarious 7/2 to save the day. And lo and behold! He scores a possibly match-saving 0, while the rest of the team fails to live up to the billing and falls for 212.

6. Pakistan vs. New Zealand (http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/63727.html)

Pakistan scores 191 in response to New Zealand's 155. Inzamam is the star of the innings with a score of 0. Pakistan needs just 276 to win the match. Inzamam plays a typically heroic innings of 14, while, once again, his team fails to live up to his heroism and falls for 231.

These are just a few examples of matches where Inzamam chokes under pressure.

But, to be honest, this is a futile exercise. All batsmen have failed under pressure. Posting scorecards of such matches, as you have done incessantly in the past 27 pages, means nothing, if you ignore the bigger picture. Inzamam was a big part of Pakistani victories, but he was a bigger (or lesser) part of Pakistani losses and draws, averaging a weak 35 when his team most needed him. I still consider him to be a great batsman, but none of your arguments so far have proved him to be a better batsman than Tendulkar (or Ponting or Lara).

Pal, I think you're missing the definition of choking.

The games I've picked of Sachin choking are when he is IN and set.

The games you've chosen, in NONE of them is Inzamam set. He doesn't even go past 20.

For example, on over 130+ in 1999 in Chennai, he has to work the ball around to get 12 runs, and has about 15 overs to do it in. He tries to hit Saqlain for 6.

Thats choking.

Understand?

 

[metallics2006]

We only understand that you are joking, not Sachin choking.

 

[Insomniac]

You guys are YET to explain to me why Sachin's average is lower in games that India have won, while Inzamam's average is sky high?

Look, Sachin contributes little to Indian victories. Now all of the Tendu fans have decided to go on the story that India's batting lineup wasn't strong so thats why Tendu didn't win many games for India.

Yet manee is giving the excuse that India's batting line up is so strong that they scored more runs and didn't give Sachin a chance to score the runs.

Geez, talk about conflicting statements.

 

[metallics2006]

First you say Sachin is nothing nut a choker, now you say he contributes little, slowly you will accept that he is better than Inzy.

 

[manee]

Pal, I think you're missing the definition of choking.

The games I've picked of Sachin choking are when he is IN and set.

The games you've chosen, in NONE of them is Inzamam set. He doesn't even go past 20.

For example, on over 130+ in 1999 in Chennai, he has to work the ball around to get 12 runs, and has about 15 overs to do it in. He tries to hit Saqlain for 6.

Thats choking.

Understand?

Yes. You are now reprimanding Sachin for scoring runs in pressure situations. Your argument really is getting more ridiculous by the second (each time you post).

 

[Highlander999]

I don't think you can get more neutral then me. I really do not favour India or Pakistan. But if you asked me who to pick out of these two in a pressure situation, it would be Sachin, hands down. Now stop being so argumentative