qpeedore
SOTM Winner - July 2014
A good player in a poor system, methinks.
Draft: Test Cricket Scrubs XI Draft
- Thread starter Aislabie
- Start date
blockerdave
ICC Chairman
Jeff Moss, left handed Australian batsman who played 51 First Class matches scoring 9 centuries at 43.79 and played just one test, with a high-score of 38*.
On the face of it, it seems odd given he played when a lot of players had decamped to WSC.
I need a batsman, so I guess he'll do.
On the face of it, it seems odd given he played when a lot of players had decamped to WSC.
I need a batsman, so I guess he'll do.
- Jimmy Cook
- Bandula Warnapura
- Mike Veletta
- Jeff Moss
- Adrian Kuiper
- Chris Cowdrey
- Trevor Hohns
- Bert Strudwick
- Ken Hough
- Eddo Brandes
- Grahame Chevalier
ahmedleo414
The Butcher
Just want to confirm if it's my pick next?
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
blockerdave
ICC Chairman
Oh sorry, for some reason I was convinced i was last!
ahmedleo414
The Butcher
Despite @Aislabie mentioning Matt Poore as my final pick, I will pick someone else... Arthur Jones
From cricinfo:
"Arthur Owen Jones died on December 21, at his brother's house at Dunstable. He played in a few matches for Notts at the beginning of the past season, but his condition was very bad, and his friends knew he would not be able to go on for long. During the summer he spent some time at a sanatorium in the New Forest, but nothing could be done for him, consumption being too far advanced. He went home, given up as incurable, and the end came as a release from his sufferings. Born on August 16, 1872, Mr. Jones played his first match for Notts against Lancashire at Trent Bridge in 1892. Helping Notts to a victory by six wickets, he at once gave proof of his brilliant qualities as a cricketer. The match was a remarkable one. Notts--a great side that season--had 222 to get to win. As he had made 17 not out in the first innings, Jones was selected to go in with Shrewsbury, and between them the two batsmen scored 75 for the first wicket, putting their side on the high road to victory. They might have done more, but a brilliant run out ended the partnership. Jones was then up at Cambridge, but he only played once against Oxford at Lord's, being on the winning side in 1893. He was rather slow to develop as a batsman, his full powers being, perhaps, first revealed in a superb innings of 98 in the Whit-Monday match between Notts and Surrey in 1896. Richard Daft said of that innings that he had never seen anyone play Tom Richardson so well. Jones's great days began three years later, and from 1899 to 1907 he was, except in one season, at his very best. In the winter of 1907-8, when in Australia as a captain of the M. C. C.'s team, he had a severe illness, from the effects of which he perhaps never wholly recovered. However, he was able to resume his career in England in 1908, and continued to play as much cricket as ever. Early in the season of 1913 he contracted a violent chill, playing on a bitterly cold afternoon at Manchester. This kept him out of the field for more than two months, and no doubt brought on the illness which ended in his premature death."
@Dale88 to finish out his team
| Stats | Matches | Runs | HS | Batting Ave | 100s/50s | Wickets | BBI | BBM | Bowling Ave | Econ | 5w/10w |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| First Class | 472 | 22,935 | 296 | 31.54 | 34/117 | 333 | 8/71 | ? | 32.81 | 3.61 | 8/1 |
| Test | 12 | 291 | 34 | 13.85 | 0/0 | 3 | 3/73 | 3/116 | 44.33 | 3.50 | 0/0 |
From cricinfo:
"Arthur Owen Jones died on December 21, at his brother's house at Dunstable. He played in a few matches for Notts at the beginning of the past season, but his condition was very bad, and his friends knew he would not be able to go on for long. During the summer he spent some time at a sanatorium in the New Forest, but nothing could be done for him, consumption being too far advanced. He went home, given up as incurable, and the end came as a release from his sufferings. Born on August 16, 1872, Mr. Jones played his first match for Notts against Lancashire at Trent Bridge in 1892. Helping Notts to a victory by six wickets, he at once gave proof of his brilliant qualities as a cricketer. The match was a remarkable one. Notts--a great side that season--had 222 to get to win. As he had made 17 not out in the first innings, Jones was selected to go in with Shrewsbury, and between them the two batsmen scored 75 for the first wicket, putting their side on the high road to victory. They might have done more, but a brilliant run out ended the partnership. Jones was then up at Cambridge, but he only played once against Oxford at Lord's, being on the winning side in 1893. He was rather slow to develop as a batsman, his full powers being, perhaps, first revealed in a superb innings of 98 in the Whit-Monday match between Notts and Surrey in 1896. Richard Daft said of that innings that he had never seen anyone play Tom Richardson so well. Jones's great days began three years later, and from 1899 to 1907 he was, except in one season, at his very best. In the winter of 1907-8, when in Australia as a captain of the M. C. C.'s team, he had a severe illness, from the effects of which he perhaps never wholly recovered. However, he was able to resume his career in England in 1908, and continued to play as much cricket as ever. Early in the season of 1913 he contracted a violent chill, playing on a bitterly cold afternoon at Manchester. This kept him out of the field for more than two months, and no doubt brought on the illness which ended in his premature death."
Tim Curtis- Dulip Samaraweera
- John Commins
- Azmat Rana
- Charles Passailaigue
- Arthur Jones
- Nigel Haig
- James Foster
- Sam Staples
- Kabir Khan
- Les Jackson
@Dale88 to finish out his team
So uh that isn't the same player...
ahmedleo414
The Butcher
yeah, i forgot to copy over the bio fro him. I'm fixing that now
Ed Smith
Gaffer
1. Lendl Simmons
2.Hugh Morris
3.Shujauddin
4.Ed Joyce
5.Ronnie Irani
6.Senuran Muthusamy
7.Guy de Alwis
8.Gareth Batty
9.George Dockrell
10.Nixon McLean
11.Lonwabo Tsotobe
Sigh, dirty pick this one, but I know he opened and that's enough research for me...
Lendl Simmons2.
Hugh Morris3.
Shujauddin4.
Ed Joyce5.
Ronnie Irani6.
Senuran Muthusamy7.
Guy de Alwis8.
Gareth Batty9.
George Dockrell10.
Nixon McLean11.
Lonwabo TsotobeSigh, dirty pick this one, but I know he opened and that's enough research for me...
Last edited:
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
@ahmedleo414
1. Tim Curtis
2. Dulip Samaraweera
3. John Commins
4. Azmat Rana
5. Charles Passailaigue
6. Arthur Jones
7. Nigel Haig
8. James Foster
9. Sam Staples
10. Kabir Khan
11. Les Jackson
Given the constraints given, this is a side without many weak links; Azmat Rana and Charles Passailaigue are inspired one-cap wonders.
Dulip Samaraweera, James Foster and Les Jackson were all players I had on my shortlist - Dulip and Foster in my actual planned XI.
Nigel Haig isn't quite good enough to be a third seamer or a top-seven batsman, which is a bit of an awkward spot for your all-rounder.
= = = = = = = = = =
@Aislabie
1. Anamul Haque
2. Ken Meuleman
3. Rob Bailey
4. Usman Salahuddin
5. Herby Wade
6. Simon O'Donnell
7. Sameer Dighe
8. Pat Trimborn
9. Pat Crawford
10. Dick Tyldesley
11. Gordon Rorke
Every player in this team has a clearly-defined role, and every one of them has been selected as a specialist in that role.
Honestly, this was my absolute first-choice bowling attack from the outset. I had Les Jackson, Chris Drum and a couple of spinners as backups, but I think I have the best four bowlers available.
Herby Wade was by all accounts an excellent captain, but his batting is the weakest point in my team.
= = = = = = = = = =
@blockerdave
1. Jimmy Cook
2. Bandula Warnapura
3. Mike Veletta
4. Jeff Moss
5. Adrian Kuiper
6. Chris Cowdrey
7. Trevor Hohns
8. Bert Strudwick
9. Ken Hough
10. Eddo Brandes
11. Grahame Chevalier
Jimmy Cook was a clear first choice opening batsman, but he's also your guy. An excellent player to pick up.
A six-man bowling attack gives you plenty of options, especially with two good spinners.
The bits-and-pieces engine room could leave your side a bit vulnerable to a 90s England style five out-all out collapse.
= = = = = = = = = =
@Dale88
1. Lendl Simmons
2. Hugh Morris
3. Shujauddin Butt
4. Ed Joyce
5. Ronnie Irani
6. Senuran Muthusamy
7. Guy de Alwis
8. Gareth Batty
9. George Dockrell
10. Nixon McLean
11. Lonwabo Tsotobe
Rather than trying to pick outstanding cricketers, your first priority has been entertainment value, and you have certainly picked an entertaining team.
You've also picked a team of players who are very good at poor batting/bowling. There's a fair chance of them facing up to that if they play teams of scrubs.
Shujauddin Butt was someone used all over from one to eleven. Clearly, you missed an opportunity to pick eleven Shujauddin Butts.
= = = = = = = = = =
@qpeedore
1. Vikram Rathour
2. Shafiq Ahmed
3. Salahuddin Mulla
4. Chandu Sarwate
5. Ian Blackwell
6. Chandrakant Pandit
7. Dane Vilas
8. Wiaan Mulder
9. Chris Drum
10. Shaun Tait
11. Tabraiz Shamsi
This particular style of four-spin attack is always a personal favourite of mine: off-spin, leg-spin, orthodox and chinaman wrist-spin.
This team also bats pretty deep. Of course it has three number elevens, but eight proper batsmen come before them.
There's a bit of a weird vibe where it feels like everyone from number three to number eight actually wants to bat at six, kind of like 2017-spec England.
= = = = = = = = = =
@Yash.
1. Jim Parks
2. Colin Munro
3. Buster Farrer
4. Heino Kuhn
5. Jehan Mubarak
6. Ajay Sharma
7. Saba Karim
8. Rana Naved-ul-Hasan
9. Chadd Sayers
10. Jack Young
11. Varun Aaron
This is team with a couple of outstanding first-class careers in it: if Ajay Sharma and Colin Munro find their feet, it would be devastating to bowl against.
Every player covers a slightly different role in the team, which is good for balance. Also, spelling Chadd with two Ds doubles the power.
The bowling is pretty ropey though; Jack Young and Varun Aaron will have to do quite a bit of carrying
1.
Tim Curtis2.
Dulip Samaraweera3.
John Commins4.
Azmat Rana5.
Charles Passailaigue6.
Arthur Jones7.
Nigel Haig8.
James Foster9.
Sam Staples10.
Kabir Khan11.
Les Jackson Given the constraints given, this is a side without many weak links; Azmat Rana and Charles Passailaigue are inspired one-cap wonders. Dulip Samaraweera, James Foster and Les Jackson were all players I had on my shortlist - Dulip and Foster in my actual planned XI. Nigel Haig isn't quite good enough to be a third seamer or a top-seven batsman, which is a bit of an awkward spot for your all-rounder.= = = = = = = = = =
@Aislabie
1.
Anamul Haque2.
Ken Meuleman3.
Rob Bailey4.
Usman Salahuddin5.
Herby Wade 6.
Simon O'Donnell7.
Sameer Dighe8.
Pat Trimborn9.
Pat Crawford10.
Dick Tyldesley11.
Gordon Rorke Every player in this team has a clearly-defined role, and every one of them has been selected as a specialist in that role. Honestly, this was my absolute first-choice bowling attack from the outset. I had Les Jackson, Chris Drum and a couple of spinners as backups, but I think I have the best four bowlers available. Herby Wade was by all accounts an excellent captain, but his batting is the weakest point in my team.= = = = = = = = = =
@blockerdave
1.
Jimmy Cook2.
Bandula Warnapura 3.
Mike Veletta4.
Jeff Moss5.
Adrian Kuiper6.
Chris Cowdrey7.
Trevor Hohns8.
Bert Strudwick9.
Ken Hough10.
Eddo Brandes11.
Grahame Chevalier Jimmy Cook was a clear first choice opening batsman, but he's also your guy. An excellent player to pick up. A six-man bowling attack gives you plenty of options, especially with two good spinners. The bits-and-pieces engine room could leave your side a bit vulnerable to a 90s England style five out-all out collapse.= = = = = = = = = =
@Dale88
1.
Lendl Simmons2.
Hugh Morris3.
Shujauddin Butt4.
Ed Joyce5.
Ronnie Irani 6.
Senuran Muthusamy7.
Guy de Alwis8.
Gareth Batty9.
George Dockrell10.
Nixon McLean11.
Lonwabo Tsotobe Rather than trying to pick outstanding cricketers, your first priority has been entertainment value, and you have certainly picked an entertaining team. You've also picked a team of players who are very good at poor batting/bowling. There's a fair chance of them facing up to that if they play teams of scrubs. Shujauddin Butt was someone used all over from one to eleven. Clearly, you missed an opportunity to pick eleven Shujauddin Butts.= = = = = = = = = =
@qpeedore
1.
Vikram Rathour2.
Shafiq Ahmed 3.
Salahuddin Mulla4.
Chandu Sarwate5.
Ian Blackwell6.
Chandrakant Pandit7.
Dane Vilas8.
Wiaan Mulder9.
Chris Drum10.
Shaun Tait11.
Tabraiz Shamsi This particular style of four-spin attack is always a personal favourite of mine: off-spin, leg-spin, orthodox and This team also bats pretty deep. Of course it has three number elevens, but eight proper batsmen come before them. There's a bit of a weird vibe where it feels like everyone from number three to number eight actually wants to bat at six, kind of like 2017-spec England.= = = = = = = = = =
@Yash.
1.
Jim Parks2.
Colin Munro3.
Buster Farrer4.
Heino Kuhn5.
Jehan Mubarak6.
Ajay Sharma7.
Saba Karim8.
Rana Naved-ul-Hasan9.
Chadd Sayers10.
Jack Young11.
Varun Aaron This is team with a couple of outstanding first-class careers in it: if Ajay Sharma and Colin Munro find their feet, it would be devastating to bowl against. Every player covers a slightly different role in the team, which is good for balance. Also, spelling Chadd with two Ds doubles the power. The bowling is pretty ropey though; Jack Young and Varun Aaron will have to do quite a bit of carrying
I'm pretty sure 300 wickets @ 25 in Sheffield Shield (Chadd Sayers) isn't too bad to help them.
qpeedore
SOTM Winner - July 2014
As always, analysis of everyone's team is pretty much spot on. The write-up of my own unpicked players and near misses is on my laptop and I'm on my phone right now, so in a few hours I'll put that up.
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
@ahmedleo414 @blockerdave @Dale88 @qpeedore @Yash.
I'm going to do a couple more elevens I think, which is something I don't always do. The first will be my All-Scrub XI; my attempt to pick the best possible Scrub XI as if I wasn't going up against anyone else. The second will be my Missed Opportunities XI; players who we probably should have picked between us, but didn't.
The All-Scrub XI
Cap limit does not apply.
I've changed my mind about Jackson - his stats are just inarguable, so he gets the nod ahead of Pat Trimborn. The fact that he was selected only twice for England because he was perceived to play for a "weak" county is absurd. Also odd that his two Tests came twelve years apart, the latter when he was 40. I also decided to pick three openers, with Meuleman slotting in at number three in the end.
The Missed Opportunities XI
1. Eric Marx (3) - An excellent all-rounder who opened the batting and bowling, but whose career ended when his boss refused to let him take time off work to play.
2. George Challenor (3) - In his prime, he was the match of all but the very best batsmen in England, and twice as good as any of his teammates.
3. Charlie Hallows (2) - Just a really good county batsman playing in a strong era for English top order batsmen.
4. Gogumal Kishenchand (5) - A lion at Ranji level, but a lamb at Test level. No idea why.
5. Cameron White (4) - One of my favourite players growing up, and a fine option to captain any side.
6. Ben Hollioake (2) - Picked more on potential than results, but oh my did he have potential.
7. Ottis Gibson (2) - Another player who got pigeonholed as a one-day specialist despite having a terrific red-ball record.
8. Jackie du Preez (2) - Would have played plenty of Tests if not for the Apartheid exclusion.
9. Gavin Larsen (8) - The dibbliest, dobbliest, wibbliest and wobbliest of the dibbly dobbly wibbly wobbly brigade.
10. Brian Taber (16) - New South Wales' wicket-keeper in their Team of the Millenium.
11. Malinga Bandara (8) - An excellent leg-spinner, but he wasn't Murali so nobody cared.
(52 caps)
I'm going to do a couple more elevens I think, which is something I don't always do. The first will be my All-Scrub XI; my attempt to pick the best possible Scrub XI as if I wasn't going up against anyone else. The second will be my Missed Opportunities XI; players who we probably should have picked between us, but didn't.
The All-Scrub XI
Cap limit does not apply.
| Player | Test stats | First-class stats |
| Jimmy Cook | 107 runs @ 17.83 (best 43) in 3 matches | 21,143 runs @ 50.58 (64 centuries, best 313*) in 270 matches |
| Vikram Rathour | 131 runs @ 13.10 (best 44) in 6 matches | 11,473 runs @ 49.66 (33 centuries, best 254) in 146 matches |
| Ken Meuleman | 0 runs in 1 match | 7,855 runs @ 47.60 (22 centuries, best 254*) in 117 matches |
| Azmat Rana | 49 runs @ 49.00 (best 49) in 1 match | 6,001 runs @ 47.62 (16 centuries, best 206*) in 94 matches |
| Ajay Sharma | 53 runs @ 26.50 (best 30) in 1 match | 10,120 runs @ 67.46 (38 centuries, best 259*) in 129 matches |
| Simon O'Donnell | 206 runs @ 29.42 (best 48) and 6 wickets @ 84.00 (best 3/37) in 6 matches | 4,603 runs @ 39.34 (7 centuries, best 130) and 151 wickets @ 37.36 (2 5WI, best 6/54) in 83 matches |
| James Foster | 226 runs @ 25.11 (best 48) and 18 dismissals (17 ct, 1 st) in 7 matches | 13,761 runs @ 36.69 (23 centuries, best 212) and 901 dismissals (839 ct, 62 st) in 289 matches |
| Pat Crawford | 7 wickets @ 15.28 (best 3/28) in 4 matches | 110 wickets @ 21.02 (5 5WI, best 6/55) in 37 matches |
| Dick Tyldesley | 19 wickets @ 32.57 (best 3/50) in 7 matches | 1,509 wickets @ 17.21 (101 5WI, best 8/15) in 397 matches |
| Gordon Rorke | 10 wickets @ 20.30 (best 3/23) in 4 matches | 88 wickets @ 24.50 (3 5WI, best 6/52) in 36 matches |
| Les Jackson | 7 wickets @ 22.14 (best 2/26) in 2 matches | 1,733 wickets @ 17.36 (115 5WI, best 9/17) in 418 matches |
| - | 42 caps | - |
The Missed Opportunities XI
1.
Eric Marx (3) - An excellent all-rounder who opened the batting and bowling, but whose career ended when his boss refused to let him take time off work to play.2.
George Challenor (3) - In his prime, he was the match of all but the very best batsmen in England, and twice as good as any of his teammates.3.
Charlie Hallows (2) - Just a really good county batsman playing in a strong era for English top order batsmen.4.
Gogumal Kishenchand (5) - A lion at Ranji level, but a lamb at Test level. No idea why.5.
Cameron White (4) - One of my favourite players growing up, and a fine option to captain any side.6.
Ben Hollioake (2) - Picked more on potential than results, but oh my did he have potential.7.
Ottis Gibson (2) - Another player who got pigeonholed as a one-day specialist despite having a terrific red-ball record.8.
Jackie du Preez (2) - Would have played plenty of Tests if not for the Apartheid exclusion.9.
Gavin Larsen (8) - The dibbliest, dobbliest, wibbliest and wobbliest of the dibbly dobbly wibbly wobbly brigade.10.
Brian Taber (16) - New South Wales' wicket-keeper in their Team of the Millenium.11.
Malinga Bandara (8) - An excellent leg-spinner, but he wasn't Murali so nobody cared.(52 caps)
blockerdave
ICC Chairman
Could kick myself for not picking Challenor or Hollioake. Hallows was going to be my final choice but I decided at the last not to have 4 openers.@ahmedleo414 @blockerdave @Dale88 @qpeedore @Yash.
I'm going to do a couple more elevens I think, which is something I don't always do. The first will be my All-Scrub XI; my attempt to pick the best possible Scrub XI as if I wasn't going up against anyone else. The second will be my Missed Opportunities XI; players who we probably should have picked between us, but didn't.
The All-Scrub XI
Cap limit does not apply.
I've changed my mind about Jackson - his stats are just inarguable, so he gets the nod ahead of Pat Trimborn. The fact that he was selected only twice for England because he was perceived to play for a "weak" county is absurd. Also odd that his two Tests came twelve years apart, the latter when he was 40. I also decided to pick three openers, with Meuleman slotting in at number three in the end.
Player Test stats First-class stats 107 runs @ 17.83 (best 43) in 3 matches 21,143 runs @ 50.58 (64 centuries, best 313*) in 270 matches 131 runs @ 13.10 (best 44) in 6 matches 11,473 runs @ 49.66 (33 centuries, best 254) in 146 matches 0 runs in 1 match 7,855 runs @ 47.60 (22 centuries, best 254*) in 117 matches 49 runs @ 49.00 (best 49) in 1 match 6,001 runs @ 47.62 (16 centuries, best 206*) in 94 matches 53 runs @ 26.50 (best 30) in 1 match 10,120 runs @ 67.46 (38 centuries, best 259*) in 129 matches 206 runs @ 29.42 (best 48) and 6 wickets @ 84.00 (best 3/37) in 6 matches 4,603 runs @ 39.34 (7 centuries, best 130) and 151 wickets @ 37.36 (2 5WI, best 6/54) in 83 matches 226 runs @ 25.11 (best 48) and 18 dismissals (17 ct, 1 st) in 7 matches 13,761 runs @ 36.69 (23 centuries, best 212) and 901 dismissals (839 ct, 62 st) in 289 matches 7 wickets @ 15.28 (best 3/28) in 4 matches 110 wickets @ 21.02 (5 5WI, best 6/55) in 37 matches 19 wickets @ 32.57 (best 3/50) in 7 matches 1,509 wickets @ 17.21 (101 5WI, best 8/15) in 397 matches 10 wickets @ 20.30 (best 3/23) in 4 matches 88 wickets @ 24.50 (3 5WI, best 6/52) in 36 matches 7 wickets @ 22.14 (best 2/26) in 2 matches 1,733 wickets @ 17.36 (115 5WI, best 9/17) in 418 matches - 42 caps -
The Missed Opportunities XI
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
(52 caps)
There’s absolutely no way ODonnell is a better all rounder to have than Kuiper though.
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
Kuiper was the better bowler, but O'Donnell definitely the better batsman. I'd also credit O'Donnell with facing slightly better domestic opposition, but that's just personal opinion
