The Ashes (Australia tour of England)

[wasteyouryouth]

@Aislabie how's your XI looking today?

 

[Yorkshireman]

Yeh we did well. Shame Denly didn’t get a century and we didn’t get a 450+ lead. Guess it’s just a matter of how many runs Steve Smith gets now then ey.

 

[Aislabie]

@Aislabie how's your XI looking today?

One swallow does not a summer make. Just because a group of players manage to put a score together one in five times doesn't mean that you shouldn't look to improve. One shouldn't be satisfied with just enough to get by

It's also worth noting that my XI I keep posting does include Joe Denly, batting at his preferred number three. He's not perfect but he's fought extremely hard and there's not an obvious better option for that role.

• Burns (c)
• Sibley
• Denly
• Root
• Pope
• Stokes
• Foakes (wk)
• the bowlers

I continue to maintain that this is a better Test cricket team.

It will succeed more often and fail less often than the present one.

That the current team will occasionally win matches, and that my proposed team would sometimes lose them, doesn't affect the point I've been making.

 

[asprin]

Yeah but all fans of losing teams say this at end of series , isn’t that right @asprin (4-1 etc etc )

You bet they do [DOUBLEPOST=1568523358][/DOUBLEPOST]

Yeh we did well. Shame Denly didn’t get a century and we didn’t get a 450+ lead. Guess it’s just a matter of how many runs Steve Smith gets now then ey.

You can't be serious! No matter what Smith scores, without support at the other end it's gonna be nearly impossible to score 400 batting last.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

Yeh we did well. Shame Denly didn’t get a century and we didn’t get a 450+ lead. Guess it’s just a matter of how many runs Steve Smith gets now then ey.

I don't think Smith can do anything much about this. Chasing targets like 400 you need X-factor players like AB de Villiers to get going. I doubt whether Australia have found any such player in their history. And they don't need it either because Australia is a team that dominates opponents and such teams don't have to chase 400 every now and then. And when they do they lose more often than not.

 

[zimrahil]

One swallow does not a summer make. Just because a group of players manage to put a score together one in five times doesn't mean that you shouldn't look to improve. One shouldn't be satisfied with just enough to get by

It's also worth noting that my XI I keep posting does include Joe Denly, batting at his preferred number three. He's not perfect but he's fought extremely hard and there's not an obvious better option for that role.

• Burns (c)
• Sibley
• Denly
• Root
• Pope
• Stokes
• Foakes (wk)
• the bowlers

I continue to maintain that this is a better Test cricket team.

It will succeed more often and fail less often than the present one.

That the current team will occasionally win matches, and that my proposed team would sometimes lose them, doesn't affect the point I've been making.

Agreed, fact Buttler finally makes a 50 in effectively a dead rubber after 4 tests of failure doesn’t mean he should keep his place imo. We need more consistent players and ones who perform when series are alive

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Agreed, fact Buttler finally makes a 50 in effectively a dead rubber after 4 tests of failure doesn’t mean he should keep his place imo. We need more consistent players and ones who perform when series are alive

That's a lot of rubbish. He batted superbly in the 4th test and was an hour away from saving the test match. An achievement very far away from his natural game, but it nearly happened. This shows his willingness to learn. Buttler can also bat with the tail and roll off runs for fun in the second innings which can often be gold dust.

I feel, if Pope is ready to bat 3, then he goes to 3, Buttler 6 and Foakes 7. But, I feel Buttler should bat 7 and Pope at 6. I don't know who bats 3 then.

 

[Willoughby63]

[/QUOTE] I don't know who bats 3 then.[/QUOTE]
Denly with Sibley opening or Crawley with Denly opening

 

[zimrahil]

That's a lot of rubbish. He batted superbly in the 4th test and was an hour away from saving the test match. An achievement very far away from his natural game, but it nearly happened. This shows his willingness to learn. Buttler can also bat with the tail and roll off runs for fun in the second innings which can often be gold dust.

I feel, if Pope is ready to bat 3, then he goes to 3, Buttler 6 and Foakes 7. But, I feel Buttler should bat 7 and Pope at 6. I don't know who bats 3 then.

You don’t need to worry, his score in this test keeps him in the side for next 12 months regardless how he performs ....

 

[Ed Smith]

That's a lot of rubbish. He batted superbly in the 4th test and was an hour away from saving the test match. An achievement very far away from his natural game, but it nearly happened. This shows his willingness to learn. Buttler can also bat with the tail and roll off runs for fun in the second innings which can often be gold dust.

I feel, if Pope is ready to bat 3, then he goes to 3, Buttler 6 and Foakes 7. But, I feel Buttler should bat 7 and Pope at 6. I don't know who bats 3 then.

I'd be willing to learn how to bat in a test, doesn't mean I should be playing for England. Buttler needs to go and hone his craft elsewhere, but I do feel theres a test match batsman in there.

 

[Villain]

Australia needs some contribution from Warner, his last chance to do something with the bat in this series. Really disappointed with his batting in this one, miss his aggressive batting. He should get back with that mindset and not go defensive all the time, final opportunity when the team needs him you can't always expect Smith to win you games.

 

[Bevab]

Only way I can see Australia drawing this is if Paine has one of his great blockathon performances like in UAE with Smith playing the role of Khawaja.

 

[Dutch]

Australia needs some contribution from Warner, his last chance to do something with the bat in this series. Really disappointed with his batting in this one, miss his aggressive batting. He should get back with that mindset and not go defensive all the time, final opportunity when the team needs him you can't always expect Smith to win you games.

He helped lay the table at lunch: his biggest contribution of the Summer!

 

[wasteyouryouth]

One swallow does not a summer make. Just because a group of players manage to put a score together one in five times doesn't mean that you shouldn't look to improve. One shouldn't be satisfied with just enough to get by

It's also worth noting that my XI I keep posting does include Joe Denly, batting at his preferred number three. He's not perfect but he's fought extremely hard and there's not an obvious better option for that role.

• Burns (c)
• Sibley
• Denly
• Root
• Pope
• Stokes
• Foakes (wk)
• the bowlers

I continue to maintain that this is a better Test cricket team.

It will succeed more often and fail less often than the present one.

That the current team will occasionally win matches, and that my proposed team would sometimes lose them, doesn't affect the point I've been making.

I agree that's probably the best test side (I'd go Stokes as captain if you're going to change at this point). However, I'd be prepared to give Buttler a shot with the gloves over the winter and see how he does. A more defined role might help and his dead-rubber 50s and batting with the tail is more acceptable as a keeper/batsman than a specialist batsman. Foakes's form this season hasn't been enough to put pressure on them, even though I think he looks a better bet in the long term. I'd certainly expect him to have more than one century after the same number of matches as Buttler.

I think Denly's 94 might have meant Sibley/Crawley will not go to New Zealand as a back up opener as I thought possible. They'll stick with Burns and Denly. I agree Denly is best suited to three. The only question then would be do they bring in a new number three and move everyone down or stick with Root. Do they want Sam Curran in at number 7? Personally I don't see how he gets in the side ahead of Anderson (if he's fit), Broad and Archer so I figure it'd have to be as an all-rounder but as we've got Ben Stokes, I'd sooner have a batsman.

As much as change is needed I could see them sticking with this line up (Anderson probably in for Woakes). Bairstow has a 100 in South Africa, that probably means his weighted average is going to keep him in or some such nonsense.

 

[Bevab]

• Burns (c)
• Sibley
• Denly
• Root
• Pope
• Stokes
• Foakes (wk)
• the bowlers

This lineup makes too much sense for the ECB and so it is unlikely that we will ever get to see it.

@wasteyouryouth I would rather have Foakes over Buttler as the keeper batsman. For all the talk of Buttler being ‘too good’ and talented to be left out of the team and Foakes’ current below average season, he still averages 6 more than Buttler in first-class cricket with a superior conversion rate. In terms of keeping skill, Foakes is a lot better than Buttler too.

Buttler’s heroics in the current and previous tests were all on comparatively better surfaces for batting. I agree with the assessment that there is a test batsman in there somewhere who will surely benefit from a change in coach and tactics, but he isn’t worth persisting with for now considering the presence of a superior and more suitable alternative.