Lazerknighta
County Cricketer
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2023
wait...
2003 ASCON Asia Cup
- Thread starter isFEISARfair
- Start date
Na Maloom Afraad
Man of Tomorrow
WOAHHHH
Please do make sure that in innings where a team is bowled out, the overs are counted as 50.0.
CerealKiller
Staff Member
How? We didn't play them so no H2H, and we have a better NRR
Pinch hitter
Smash… Smash… Smash!
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2013
It is 2nd time Pakistan finding a way to escape from face-off against India before final match...
isFEISARfair
Associate Captain
Pakistan and Saudi Arabia never played each other in the tournament. China has H2H over Pakistan so Pakistan must be placed behind China. China and Saudi Arabia also didn't play each other so they're also broken via NRR. In this situation Pakistan's NRR doesn't matter at all and it comes down to whether Saudi Arabia can jump China in the rankings
isFEISARfair
Associate Captain
Probably explains why.
Will make a statement tomorrow since its midnight for me and I don't want to miss Uni in the morning. Once again I would like to apologize to everyone for not knowing how NRR was calculated and will explain why the numbers I did get were as far off as they were.
Lazerknighta
County Cricketer
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2023
CerealKiller
Staff Member
How does NRR not come into play when determining which of Saudi and Pakistan finishes ahead of the other?
Na Maloom Afraad
Man of Tomorrow
Till Valhalla
ICC Chairman
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2011
- Profile Flag
- Papua New Guinea
WCC Muller Schwangster(????!
looking at ASCON president.
With this level of corruption, ASCON should be played in Europe.
looking at ASCON president.With this level of corruption, ASCON should be played in Europe.
Paranoid Kendroid
Mr. PlanetCricket
- Joined
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- Don Bradman Cricket 14 - Steam PC
China (CHN) - won against KZK, PAK
Pakistan (PAK) - won against BAN, lost to CHN
Kazakshtan (KZK) - won against SAU, lost to CHN, BAN
Saudi Arabia (SAU) - won against BAN, lost to KZK
Bangladesh (BAN) - won against KZK, lost to SAU, PAK
China is clearly ahead of everyone. Removing that:
Pakistan (PAK) - won against BAN
Kazakshtan (KZK) - won against SAU, lost to BAN
Saudi Arabia (SAU) - won against BAN, lost to KZK
Bangladesh (BAN) - won against KZK, lost to SAU, PAK
Pak should be better placed than other 3 teams since they only faced Bangladesh and defeated them.
3 way tie between KZK, SAU and BAN considering they won against each other. Although BAN could be placed lowest since they also lost to PAK.
Order would be: China (3), Pakistan (4), Saudi Arabia (5), Kazakhstan (6), Bangladesh (7)
Pakistan (PAK) - won against BAN, lost to CHN
Kazakshtan (KZK) - won against SAU, lost to CHN, BAN
Saudi Arabia (SAU) - won against BAN, lost to KZK
Bangladesh (BAN) - won against KZK, lost to SAU, PAK
China is clearly ahead of everyone. Removing that:
Pakistan (PAK) - won against BAN
Kazakshtan (KZK) - won against SAU, lost to BAN
Saudi Arabia (SAU) - won against BAN, lost to KZK
Bangladesh (BAN) - won against KZK, lost to SAU, PAK
Pak should be better placed than other 3 teams since they only faced Bangladesh and defeated them.
3 way tie between KZK, SAU and BAN considering they won against each other. Although BAN could be placed lowest since they also lost to PAK.
Order would be: China (3), Pakistan (4), Saudi Arabia (5), Kazakhstan (6), Bangladesh (7)
isFEISARfair
Associate Captain
Alright so here's my final numbers for NRR
As it stands Saudi Arabia would jump China in terms of NRR and make the Semi-Finals, however @Paranoid Kendroid has brought up the completely unrelated question of can Saudi Arabia even jump in the first place? My current logic with the Head to Head tiebreak is that it takes absolute priority over everything else, therefore I normally construct the table with this in mind and if a team doesn't fit in cleanly to this I use NRR to clarify the table. With this the current order of things based off of a purely H2H sense is China is at the top of a H2H chain, with Pakistan being below them, Bangladesh being below Pakistan and Kazakhstan being below Bangladesh. Saudi Arabia would of fit in nicely below Kazakhstan since they lost to them, however Saudi Arabia also beat Bangladesh in the opening game of the tournament, creating a H2H circle (or a circle of suck) which means Saudi Arabia has to be placed through NRR when compared to both Bangladesh and Kazakhstan. Of course Saudi Arabia also didn't play either Pakistan or China in the tournament, meaning that for every team that the Saudis are tied with they have to be placed through NRR when in comparison. As a result of this Saudi Arabia is first compared to the top of the H2H chain, that being China and since they have a higher NRR they are placed above them even though they lost to Kazakhstan who is at the bottom of this chain. Paranoid however has brought up the idea that since Saudi Arabia is in this H2H circle with both Bangladesh and Kazakhstan, and that both Kazakhstan and Bangladesh lost to teams higher up the H2H chain, it must indicate that Saudi Arabia's H2H should be tied to the H2H circle and unlike current thinking it means that Saudi Arabia cannot jump China and by extension Pakistan even though their NRR is higher then China's. This frankly is an issue due to the Swiss format used and the fact only four rounds were played. Normally if I had the time I would just force a fifth Swiss round to break the large amount of ties that we have and take the results from that extra round to determine the knockouts, however we don't have that time due to the World Cup. As I see it there are a few ways forward.
#1: We use direct H2H as has been used for the entirety of this tournament, meaning Saudi Arabia goes through as the #3 seed and China goes through as the #4 seed with Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kazakhstan being the three that miss out in that order.
#2: We use Paranoid's suggestion, meaning that all this NRR calculations were worthless because the only thing that changes is Saudi Arabia goes ahead of Kazakhstan in the final rankings. This also means China goes through as the #3 seed and Pakistan goes through as the #4 seed.
#3: Force Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to play a play-in game on the 21st, the winner plays India in the Semis which would be moved to the 23rd and the final is moved to the 26th, meaning if the Final is tied no replay will be issued and we would go straight to a bowl-out. This is the fun option but also the most unrealistic.
Again I would like to apologize for the massive ****up I didn't notice over the past six months I've been running the confederation. In the future this will not happen again.
| Team | NRR (Swing) | NRR (Nominal) |
| Bangladesh | -3.630 | -0.912 |
| China | -0.460 | -0.415 |
| India | +9.540 | +2.968 |
| Kazakhstan | -0.550 | -0.332 |
| Nepal | -6.470 | -2.030 |
| Pakistan | +3.030 | +0.723 |
| Palestine | -1.090 | -0.332 |
| Qatar | +2.680 | +1.087 |
| Saudi Arabia | -0.600 | +0.150 |
| Sri Lanka | -2.300 | -0.664 |
As it stands Saudi Arabia would jump China in terms of NRR and make the Semi-Finals, however @Paranoid Kendroid has brought up the completely unrelated question of can Saudi Arabia even jump in the first place? My current logic with the Head to Head tiebreak is that it takes absolute priority over everything else, therefore I normally construct the table with this in mind and if a team doesn't fit in cleanly to this I use NRR to clarify the table. With this the current order of things based off of a purely H2H sense is China is at the top of a H2H chain, with Pakistan being below them, Bangladesh being below Pakistan and Kazakhstan being below Bangladesh. Saudi Arabia would of fit in nicely below Kazakhstan since they lost to them, however Saudi Arabia also beat Bangladesh in the opening game of the tournament, creating a H2H circle (or a circle of suck) which means Saudi Arabia has to be placed through NRR when compared to both Bangladesh and Kazakhstan. Of course Saudi Arabia also didn't play either Pakistan or China in the tournament, meaning that for every team that the Saudis are tied with they have to be placed through NRR when in comparison. As a result of this Saudi Arabia is first compared to the top of the H2H chain, that being China and since they have a higher NRR they are placed above them even though they lost to Kazakhstan who is at the bottom of this chain. Paranoid however has brought up the idea that since Saudi Arabia is in this H2H circle with both Bangladesh and Kazakhstan, and that both Kazakhstan and Bangladesh lost to teams higher up the H2H chain, it must indicate that Saudi Arabia's H2H should be tied to the H2H circle and unlike current thinking it means that Saudi Arabia cannot jump China and by extension Pakistan even though their NRR is higher then China's. This frankly is an issue due to the Swiss format used and the fact only four rounds were played. Normally if I had the time I would just force a fifth Swiss round to break the large amount of ties that we have and take the results from that extra round to determine the knockouts, however we don't have that time due to the World Cup. As I see it there are a few ways forward.
#1: We use direct H2H as has been used for the entirety of this tournament, meaning Saudi Arabia goes through as the #3 seed and China goes through as the #4 seed with Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kazakhstan being the three that miss out in that order.
#2: We use Paranoid's suggestion, meaning that all this NRR calculations were worthless because the only thing that changes is Saudi Arabia goes ahead of Kazakhstan in the final rankings. This also means China goes through as the #3 seed and Pakistan goes through as the #4 seed.
#3: Force Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to play a play-in game on the 21st, the winner plays India in the Semis which would be moved to the 23rd and the final is moved to the 26th, meaning if the Final is tied no replay will be issued and we would go straight to a bowl-out. This is the fun option but also the most unrealistic.
Again I would like to apologize for the massive ****up I didn't notice over the past six months I've been running the confederation. In the future this will not happen again.
Till Valhalla
ICC Chairman
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2011
- Profile Flag
- Papua New Guinea
The best solution to the problem is declare Niue as ASCON 2003 champions.
Pinch hitter
Smash… Smash… Smash!
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2013
What should India do... Leave our Job...
Till Valhalla
ICC Chairman
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2011
- Profile Flag
- Papua New Guinea
You did that in 2002 hence it is expected.
