Academy release 0.0.69 - discussion

[blockerdave]

@SnowyCasanova the inside out over cover would be a great addition.

 

[SibiNaayagam]

Helicopter shot can be just as difficult as the scoop to pull off. No need to increase the probability of hitting for a six.

And to all those who say the follow through is unnecessary, that's when someone else plays it, not Dhoni. Dhoni is already an unorthodox brute player and on top of that he uses it to get a near yorker and sometimes yorkers to be hit for a six. It's already an unorthodox thinking to hit a six off a yorker so I'm not sure why everyone expects an orthodox follow through.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

lol oh c'mon. you sound just like the ICB would have sounded when Kerry Packer suggested a 1 day game instead of a 5 day test match....

cricket is all about scoring as many runs while you bat. It doesn't matter how you score those runs. Batsmen nowadays have developed new and exciting ways of hitting the ball. yes its extremely risky (look at Glenn Maxwell when his shots don't go down...he looks like a complete idiot, but on the flip side when it does go off, he looks like a champion) but its there because it works and it makes it more exciting. Doesn't mean you have to use it - but doesn't mean they shouldn't include it either. Its up to you. Same as how I rarely use the sweep shot...its there but I just don't like the risk involved (also timing).

I have no problem with "new and exciting ways of hitting the ball"... But why do players come up with these techniques? It's to send the ball into an area of the field or to the boundary to score runs in a way that a typical shot couldn't achieve. They work against deliveries of a different line and length than the conventional shots you'd play into those areas, therefore they serve a purpose to be included in the gameplay of DBC.

The "helicopter" is just a slog into an area you can already play conventional shots to, and would only work against deliveries that the conventional shot would also be playable to... So where is the need? It adds a superfluous option which now needs to be tweaked and balanced in comparison to the conventional shot, and having the helicopter be there but not very powerful will most likely just annoy the people it is there to appease.

Player individuality is something I'd love to see more of in the game, especially in animations - bowling actions, batting stances, strokes etc... I'd support the inclusion of this helicopter shot animation happening occasionally when you play a lofted shot into the relevant area with a player it's enabled on (so Dhoni and maybe a handful of others). It doesn't warrant being its own shot in the game playable by all players... It is popularised by one player in world cricket, performed very occasionally by others, and it's just a fairly typical shot with a different follow through.

A few people seem to be misunderstanding or simply not reading my posts properly, I'm really not surprised that most of these people and those "thanking" such replies are Indian. God forbid you say anything negative about Dhoni's famous shot...

 

[SibiNaayagam]

The "helicopter" is just a slog into an area you can already play conventional shots to, and would only work against deliveries that the conventional shot would also be playable to...

Wrong.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

Wrong.

I've seen even club players take a step back and brute force full/yorker deliveries to the boundary without "helicoptering" it.

 

[SibiNaayagam]

I've seen even club players take a step back and brute force full/yorker deliveries to the boundary without "helicoptering" it.

Ask them to face Malinga and do the same and I'll rest my case.

EDIT: It's about the time you need to step back and do that. People hardly have time to jam the bat for yorkers of Malinga and Starc...

 

[Snowy]

Let's keep it to within the context of the game

 

[francobaldo1]

 

[Deleted member 9102]

Ask them to face Malinga and do the same and I'll rest my case.

My point is that you're incorrect to say that you can't play a "conventional" attacking shot to a yorker length ball. Even if it's a bit of an inelegant slog, you can attack without thinking "it's a bit full, need to get the helicopter out!", which is something I don't want to be a factor in the gameplay of DBC.

Of course you're still unlikely to be able to attack such deliveries effectively anyway, especially if they're from the likes of Malinga or Starc.

 

[SibiNaayagam]

My point is that you're incorrect to say that you can't play a "conventional" attacking shot to a yorker length ball. Even if it's a bit of an inelegant slog, you can attack without thinking "it's a bit full, need to get the helicopter out!", which is something I don't want to be a factor in the gameplay of DBC.

Which is why I feel it should be a risky shot and I think it is. Unless you are really skilled (Unorthodox skill meter on the high), you aren't going to escape a bowled or a mishit. Half voley's are easier to hit for a six but again the unorthodox skill would make sure not all can play it. I don't think anyone needs to worry about the implementation. They could probably try and speed up the animation a bit to make it feel rushed and brute, if at all and let the regular physics take care of the rest.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

Which is why I feel it should be a risky shot and I think it is. Unless you are really skilled (Unorthodox skill meter on the high), you aren't going to escape a bowled or a mishit. Half voley's are easier to hit for a six but again the unorthodox skill would make sure not all can play it. I don't think anyone needs to worry about the implementation. They could probably try and speed up the animation a bit to make it feel rushed and brute, if at all and let the regular physics take care of the rest.

Agreed, playing such a shot is very risky and I think player attributes should play a big part in the outcome. I think we're mostly on the same page.

I've said my bit and voiced my concerns about the topic so I'll leave it there so as not to derail the thread for too long.

 

[grkrama]

I would also second snowy, blocker request for inside out cover drives, would also like to have switch hit in game if possible, would really add a dimension in hitting against spin and slow medium in death overs!

Regarding helicopter its been added to the game so if people dont want to play it then they just dont have to play it, also if its limited or made more accessible to player in category like unorthodox and brute combined it should be fine interms of gameplay balance!

 

[rishabh9627]

The shot itself is just a standard slog over midwicket / cow corner with an exaggerated (unneccessary) follow through.

But of course because it's a Dhoni-bosh it is imbued with some mythical pizazz. Given the area it's smacked to it is literally a sacred cow.

Actually kudos to him because he took an ugly slog, made it a pantomime and added many lakhs and crore to his bottom line with the additional publicity.

hey man i know you didn't like the shot animation
thats fine
you have the right to put your views about the game
but atleast don't make fun of the player who invented it
u are criticizing the shot as if u never wanted it to be invented by anyone
that its so ugly

 

[blockerdave]

hey man i know you didn't like the shot animation
thats fine
you have the right to put your views about the game
but atleast don't make fun of the player who invented it
u are criticizing the shot as if u never wanted it to be invented by anyone
that its so ugly

at least learn to understand a sentence. i wasn't making fun of him whatsoever. i admire his sharpness in realising the potential of having a "signature" unorthodox shot in the modern era. there is in fact remarkable skill and power in hitting a yorker for 6 (even if it has often been oddly easy in video games!)

i WAS however making fun of the people lapping it up and not seeing it for what is. it doesn't open new areas (such as the dilscoop) or even hit into an area that ball wouldn't usually go to (as with reverse sweeps/switch hits, or the "inside out" shot). it is a shot of skill and power (slog is probably ungenerous in fairness), but the follow through is obviously added "theatre" that does not actually add anything and is clearly biomechanically unnecessary: you wind up for power, not down.

so yeah, basically, i wasn't making fun of dhoni - i was making fun of you.

 

[blockerdave]

Ask them to face Malinga and do the same and I'll rest my case.

EDIT: It's about the time you need to step back and do that. People hardly have time to jam the bat for yorkers of Malinga and Starc...

you are indulging in a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. (or post hoc ergo copter hoc: add cymbal clash or tumbleweed as appropriate). you think because he hits the yorker for 6 then copters that somehow the copter enables the 6 hit in the first place.

The "copter" comes after the shot. the follow-through has literally nothing to do with the ability to hit the yorker for 6.

the picking up the length so quickly, getting into position, the hand-eye co-ordination, the bat speed and power are all evidence of genuine and relatively rare skill, but i repeat (and it is evidenced by others who can play a shot to a similar area from a similar ball without the follow through) that the follow through is unnecessary.

just bring your arms from a "backlift" type position through a shot as fast as you can... they don't naturally copter, but continue over your other shoulder. that is biomechanically natural and follows newton's first law... to perform a copter actually requires you to exert power against the natural arc of the follow through. (this is probably why dhoni has hit 6s in the same areas without coptering... it's not natural and needs to be remembered.)

as i say, it's theatre and good on him because it clearly energises his personal fanbase.

the only thing that surprises me about it being included in DBC17 is that nobody appears to have connected the shot to the "regional cover stars" thing and gone into a "dhoni on the box" fangasm.