Academy release 0.0.69 - discussion

[FollowOn]

Spin difficulty concept is really out of my mind mainly because I cannot get the need to make it difficult as the max RPM is gonna matter on the skills and attributes of the bowler..Then in real life people dont struggle to spin the ball even Murali Vijay if handed the ball who hardly bowls can give it the RPM to his level all the deliveries..He would be like 1500RPM is first then next delivery 1000 RPM next 1200 RPM because he is just used to bowling the similar zone of RPM varying really slightly, but what he would struggle is to land the ball exactly where he wants to thats where skills come into play..Eg: Bowling fuller would become half volley outside off driven for 4 easily, or good length thought but execution makes it short and smacked for 4or6..Thats how difficulty would be varied..Landing the ball right is what is the main difficulty aspect than the rotation..Similarly Flight or bounce options should be locked for lower skilled spinners like Vijay for example..And even for bowlers like Joe Root who is decent part timer, flight can be selected to full 90degrees but on delivering the flight should be minimal [visible enough but not like a pro level]...For Ashwin kind of bowler all the features and variations should be made available easy , even flight and bounce thats the level of skills you need to get the best out of it...But that doesnt mean he could land everything in same spot again and again [Form factor should come in here]...

This is the reason why I feel making it difficult or "Master" the spin is not something thats required to the game rather its the pitching and the consistency shown on his delivering abilities which requires the attention..

I am a big fan of bowling and I believe in gameplay plan like field positions, getting the best out of deliveries like landing the ball in the right place giving it that flight to give that turn which is possible than a system which makes me concentrate on whether I am timing the circle correctly or not..This change definitely frustrated me more than anything else...I just closed the game after that, people saying its a learning curve , why is that required..Are you as a batsman going to struggle playing dilscoop off the first ball of the match against a 145Kmph delivery,no..Then why for spin...There is a need to control the RPM which amazes me because I am able to land in a zone and turn the first ball really well say 2800RPM next ball I "CONTROL" the spin rotation and limit to yellow zone to get lower but land similar zone to the earlier one but the batsman would be playing for the spin he faced previous delivery and misses to WK by a whisker..If this kind of gameplay doesnt make you jump in the air I am not sure what will..
Thats the reason I request BA to revert back to the previous spin system and give the control to the bowler to bowl however he wants to..

I agree for a skilled spinner its quiet easy for him to put enough RPM on ball without much effort , however its totally opposite for even a skilled pacer to control swing/seam.
I have an idea regarding last second LS rotation (just a split second before release) in order to bowl perfect swing seam deliveries , for inswing you have to flick the LS from 12'oclock to 3'oclock for outswing its 12 to 9 oclock for leg cutter its 9 to 6oclock and for offcutter it should be 3 to 6 oclock , you have to flick the LS just before releasing the ball if you flick it late (that is after the release) then there will no swing/seam , if you flick it too early then there will be very minimal swing if at all (depends on skills and condition) and if it is in b/w then there will normal swing unless you hit the perfect timing which can result in massive movement.

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

I agree for a skilled spinner its quiet easy for him to put enough RPM on ball without much effort , however its totally opposite for even a skilled pacer to control swing/seam.
I have an idea regarding last second LS rotation (just a split second before release) in order to bowl perfect swing seam deliveries , for inswing you have to flick the LS from 12'oclock to 3'oclock for outswing its 12 to 9 oclock for leg cutter its 9 to 6oclock and for offcutter it should be 3 to 6 oclock , you have to flick the LS just before releasing the ball if you flick it late (that is after the release) then there will no swing/seam , if you flick it too early then there will be very minimal swing if at all (depends on skills and condition) and if it is in b/w then there will normal swing unless you hit the perfect timing which can result in massive movement.

That post was totally focusing on spin with regard to the changes made in the recent update...

 

[kamrul]

Everything of the academy is top notch.

But one thing is bothering me a bit. Normally those who have played proper cricket in real life knows that you can hardly hit a six of the back foot. Back foot lofted shots can also be termed as back foot punch shots (lofted) . It's normally used to clear the inner circle. I have never seen a batsman playing full swing lofted shots of the back foot. I feel that if the existing back foot lofted shot animations could be replaced with back foot punch animation, it would feel better.

In DBC14 AI could play such back foot punch shots , it adds to realism. And the follow through after playing back foot lofted shots just doesn't feel right. (Check the red circle in the attached pic) . May be it's still under development , if not then wanted BA to know about this issue.

Back foot lofted shots shouldn't be used to hit sixes. Should be used just to punch the ball away over the inner circle fielder for a single,double or may be a four, but not for a six ( if the stadium is too small , then may be)

 

[rishabh9627]

Yes a green pitch will help ball retain its shine longer but the amount of swing will still be dependent on conditions other than the pitch. If the green pitch is in subcontinent you will barely see enough swing but in an English or New Zealand stadium I would expect the ball to swing around a lot more.

this is bcoz of pitch condition
recall in dbc14 there was an option of choosing the pitch condition
to be pristine, uneven , wearing or worn out.
in england pitch conditions are pristine nd in subcontinent most of the times uneven or wearing

 

[cricket_online]

this is bcoz of pitch condition
recall in dbc14 there was an option of choosing the pitch condition
to be pristine, uneven , wearing or worn out.
in england pitch conditions are pristine nd in subcontinent most of the times uneven or wearing

I get it that a green pitch will allow the ball to retain shine thus allowing it to swing for a longer time. my point was that the swing by itself is not dependent on the pitch. Seam yes, swing no. A green pitch will allow the ball to swing for longer duration but it won't help with the swing, which is dependent on atmospheric conditions such as cloud cover, humidity level etc.

 

[whiteninness]

A very fundamental pillar that I have instilled at BA is every game we develop is a highlights reel of the sport.

G'day Ross. First, great to see BA back with another classic game. Second, "thanks" for ruining Melbourne's season last week... (although one may argue that we ruined it ourselves)

I'm very curious about this philosophy you have instilled. I feel like it is the right, if not essential, way to approach most sports games like AFL, rugby, soccer etc. where the user is is never expected to play all of a ~2 hour game. If you want realistic scores from ~20 minutes of play time then of course the offensive nature needs to be ramped up, much like a highlights real. Less congestion in AFL, unrealistically accurate passing in soccer etc.

In a cricket game though, we really are playing the game in full. Thankfully it doesn't actually take five days to play a test match, as one may play one ball every say 10 seconds, not one minute. But nevertheless, we are actually playing the entire five days worth of cricket. I therefore see issues of balance arising if this highlights philosophy is at play.

To think of an example off the top of my head from DBC14

• AI batsmen don't leave the ball anywhere near as much as they should in tests, because that is "boring" cricket
• However, if real life batsmen played at the ball that frequently they would be nicking the ball a lot and out
• So, to avoid unrealistically small AI totals the rate of nicks is significantly reduced, to the point where slips are basically a waste

In the context of that to which you were responding - epic pace and swing - one is left with in DBC14 I believe a frustrating situation where as a bowler you may deliver 145 km/h inswinging yorkers from Mitchell Starc over and over and, for the necessary sake of balance, the AI has an unrealistically defence. I would personally rather just have the two abilities brought to more realistic values. I think balance would come more naturally then, and also provide more excitement from the rarer occasions of true highlights.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

G'day Ross. First, great to see BA back with another classic game. Second, "thanks" for ruining Melbourne's season last week... (although one may argue that we ruined it ourselves)

I'm very curious about this philosophy you have instilled. I feel like it is the right, if not essential, way to approach most sports games like AFL, rugby, soccer etc. where the user is is never expected to play all of a ~2 hour game. If you want realistic scores from ~20 minutes of play time then of course the offensive nature needs to be ramped up, much like a highlights real. Less congestion in AFL, unrealistically accurate passing in soccer etc.

In a cricket game though, we really are playing the game in full. Thankfully it doesn't actually take five days to play a test match, as one may play one ball every say 10 seconds, not one minute. But nevertheless, we are actually playing the entire five days worth of cricket. I therefore see issues of balance arising if this highlights philosophy is at play.

To think of an example off the top of my head from DBC14

• AI batsmen don't leave the ball anywhere near as much as they should in tests, because that is "boring" cricket
• However, if real life batsmen played at the ball that frequently they would be nicking the ball a lot and out
• So, to avoid unrealistically small AI totals the rate of nicks is significantly reduced, to the point where slips are basically a waste

In the context of that to which you were responding - epic pace and swing - one is left with in DBC14 I believe a frustrating situation where as a bowler you may deliver 145 km/h inswinging yorkers from Mitchell Starc over and over and, for the necessary sake of balance, the AI has an unrealistically defence. I would personally rather just have the two abilities brought to more realistic values. I think balance would come more naturally then, and also provide more excitement from the rarer occasions of true highlights.

Great post and I totally agree. I was going to say something along the same lines but didn't want to seem too critical of BA's philosophy...

When you're playing full length matches where you can save your progress, the gameplay doesn't need to be exaggerated to produce more action/highlights imo. Cricket can be shortened and more frenetic simply by changing the format...

I don't support the idea that you should swing the ball a mile every time you want because it makes it like a highlights reel. For me it just makes those deliveries feel less special. If everything's a highlight, nothing is.

 

[ashar rizwan]

Made a video ft. Helicopter shot, switch hit and a special message.

How do you know that they hacked your machine.[DOUBLEPOST=1472338832][/DOUBLEPOST]

Made a video ft. Helicopter shot, switch hit and a special message.

How to you know that they hacked the machine.

 

[Col. Hans Landa]

Because the machine sent out an email saying that I won a $100,000 lottery.

 

[FollowOn]

Agreed bowling will lose its charm if bowler is able to bowl those wow deliveries again and again without actual impact, in fact wickets will begin to feel more like random rather happen due to special deliveries.

 

[BigAntStudios]

G'day Ross. First, great to see BA back with another classic game. Second, "thanks" for ruining Melbourne's season last week... (although one may argue that we ruined it ourselves)

I'm very curious about this philosophy you have instilled. I feel like it is the right, if not essential, way to approach most sports games like AFL, rugby, soccer etc. where the user is is never expected to play all of a ~2 hour game. If you want realistic scores from ~20 minutes of play time then of course the offensive nature needs to be ramped up, much like a highlights real. Less congestion in AFL, unrealistically accurate passing in soccer etc.

In a cricket game though, we really are playing the game in full. Thankfully it doesn't actually take five days to play a test match, as one may play one ball every say 10 seconds, not one minute. But nevertheless, we are actually playing the entire five days worth of cricket. I therefore see issues of balance arising if this highlights philosophy is at play.

To think of an example off the top of my head from DBC14

• AI batsmen don't leave the ball anywhere near as much as they should in tests, because that is "boring" cricket
• However, if real life batsmen played at the ball that frequently they would be nicking the ball a lot and out
• So, to avoid unrealistically small AI totals the rate of nicks is significantly reduced, to the point where slips are basically a waste

In the context of that to which you were responding - epic pace and swing - one is left with in DBC14 I believe a frustrating situation where as a bowler you may deliver 145 km/h inswinging yorkers from Mitchell Starc over and over and, for the necessary sake of balance, the AI has an unrealistically defence. I would personally rather just have the two abilities brought to more realistic values. I think balance would come more naturally then, and also provide more excitement from the rarer occasions of true highlights.

I think you'll find the AI far better in DBC17, the idea I am putting forward is that there is a defence available but not always performed - for me the defence of a perfect ball is a highlight in itself, as is the judgement to leave a ball.

PS: I think the Cats would have got you in any case, it was amazing to see a full MCC members last week - you guys certainly came out for the expected kill! (I don't even want to talk about yesterday - an abysmal performance, was not happy at all, Blues put the cue in the rack the week before.)

 

[LittleBigPlanet]

given the fact that swing is dependent on atmospheric conditions and cloud cover

All Im saying is thats incorrect. It doesn't matter how good the "atmospheric conditions" are for swing bowling, if the pitch is too abrasive, you can't maintain the ball enough for it to utilise the "atmospheric conditions".

The ball will still swing without "atmospheric conditions" on "pitches" conducive of swing, ie; green tops, longer grass coverage, softer type"pitches". Because the ball is maintained a lot longer.

It swings more in nz and eng and the gabba, because the "pitches" have more moisture and are less abrasive.

Any country can doctor a pitch to be more conducive of swing, you don't need "atmospheric conditions"... All you need is a hose and some covers and a good curator.

"Pitches" not "atmospheric conditions" have the most bearing on "how much"or "how long".

Yes "atmospheric conditions" can enhance swing, but not if the pitch isn't right.

It has no bearing on reverse swing whatsoever.

That's a fairly comprehensive description pal, you would only be arguing for the sake of it, if you were too.

I'm glad your actually arguing on something that is beneficial to strategy for DBC though, instead of some "others" that are crapp!ng on about mixed gender cricket that's a complete waste of time and money and all about politically correct bs. Its easy to be diplomatic!!!

 

[whiteninness]

There is also no proven scientific connection between overcast conditions and cricket ball swing.

The closest you get is an indirect connection where perhaps clouds are indicative of past rainfall which would have softened the grass keeping the ball newer for longer. And, like above, this wouldn't affect reverse thing.

It's really old cricketing folk law more than anything, clouds = swing...

 

[LittleBigPlanet]

Agreed, although i think that there is commonly accepted theory that the thicker the air (humidity) that it multiplys the effect of the airflow... somehow?! I guess the denser the air the more it catches on the "rough side". Anyway none of that matters if you cant maintain a "shiny side" on "pitches" that are too abrasive anyway.

Cricket is such a "fickle" sport in practice and in theory...

 

[FollowOn]

Will there be different animations for tailenders and lower orders? will be cool to watch if they bat like real taileneders