^ Thank you and especially with Abha's record outside of Pakistan and England is about 30 so much for a great player plus he played absolutely horrideous in several nations like New Zealand, West Indies and most importantly India.
Yousuf plays better in all the countries, Abhas only played well in Pakistan, England and Australia. However, Yousuf has a better average in every nation other except Australia. There really is no way you can tell me Abhas is better especially because Yousuf has played better in every nation except Australia.
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You say Yousuf "is unworthy of his 50 average" because he can't play in Australia. Yet all the guys you list have holes too. Lara, Sobers and Richards all have bad averages in New Zealand, Ponting had big strive in India. And what makes Sachin's 39 in SA, Chappell's 40 and Gavaskar's 41 average in England SO much better than Yousuf's 33 in Australia?
It's really easy to pick apart a guy's record - and that's my whole point. ALL these guys have played for 10+ years and have had lots of time to straighten out any discrepancies in their records - yet they ALL have some relative weakness.
For what's it worth I agree with you that Yousuf's average is a little inflated from what I'd judge it's true value, but that's no reason to slight him entirely and to imply he's got big flaws that your 'complete' players don't.
Again you have look beyond the stats Abbas played in tougher era for batting than Yousuf by far. More difficult batting pitches & better bowling attacks. I've never heard anyone who saw Abbas bat rated Yousuf ahead of him. He was called the "Asian Bradman".
Plus given the many highlights i have seen of Abbas i would agree with those who said that.
You continue to avoid my facts. First off, if you know anything about Pakistan you would know that the pitches have been the same for many years. He played against more difficult batting pitches but he played terribly on them, the only nations he played well in was his own, where Yousuf play better. He played well in England where again Yousuf played better and again the only nation I think Abhas played better was in Australia, other than that Abhas could only play in Pakistan and thats it, Yousuf scored nearly everywhere he is a better batsmen hands down.
I ignored thats stats, because as i said before stats dont tell the whole truth in cricket. The bolded is a perfect example.
Their is no way you can compare the quality of English bowling in England that Abbas faced in 1971, 74 & 82 to that of which Yousuf faced in 2001 & 2006. Abbas faced a farrrrr superior English attack in his time.
Plus I've never heard anyone who saw Abbas bat rated Yousuf ahead of him. He was called the "Asian Bradman" by those who played with him or saw him bat live.
Nobody speaks so fondly of Yousuf right now even with all the runs he has made in recent years - but rather he has the "flat track bully" tag around him. This is significant.
This is my first post on planetcricket.org
1. Sunil Gavaskar
2. Virender Sehwag.
3. Rahul Dravid.
4. Sachin Tendulkar.
5. Vijay Hazare
6. Vinoo Mankad
7. M.S.Dhoni (C+WK)
8. Kapil Dev
9. Zaheer Khan
Okay so he batted well in England so what,
he still played terrible in INDIA and WEST INDIES. Like I said before Yousuf
scored against Amborse and Walsh two of the greatest pace bowlers in West Indies history. Abhas played absolutely horrendous against West Indies, especially against an Indian team that has always had a weak bowling attack. Maybe not always but never a very strong bowling attack.
quote said:Best batsmen bowled at: It would depend a lot on the conditions. There were so many good players: Geoffrey Boycott, Sunil Gavaskar, the two Chappell brothers Greg and Ian, and it took different circumstances to get them out. On a flat pitch, Gavaskar seemed immoveable. Ian Chappell in an aggressive mood could embarrass a bowler. But the great technically correct players were Boycott, Majid Khan, Zaheer Abbas the more I think about it, the more batsmen come to mind.
7. M.S.Dhoni (C+WK)
What do you mean by so what?. I dont like that response, him scoring runs againts that quality ENG attack is significant.
Abbas did indeed play poorly againts the Windies especially at his peak in the 1975 & 76/77 series. One thing you should not is that in 1980 he was passed his best when it comes to ability to play fast-bowling.
But i dont know. The West Indies fast-bowlers still rated him very highly. Take this quote from Michael Holding here:
Plus his innings in the 1979 World-Cup semi-final againts the windies bowlers in full-flight is always spoken off with great enthusiam. So although he didn't step up to them in tests, im not sure if he was really weak againts pace overall.
On his record vs India in India. I just that think thats one of those things. Since if he could dominate those same spinners in Pakistan (one pitches fairly similar to that of India). Its clear he could play them well.
Yousuf did well in the one series vs Windies in 2000. But one can make a strong argument that although both Ambrose & Walsh where still very good. They where still passed their ulitimate peaks (neither was bowling 90 mph anymore).
But i stand by my position that Abbas was better than Yousuf, there is enough evidence backing my position.
Your going by technique and his ability to score against a team when his stats show a different story. You are trying to honestly tell me that if Abhas played in this time he would have a better average that Yousuf. Your talking about how he could face pace bowling and spin bowling that doesn't make one difference.
Abhas could have been one of the most technically strong batsmen to ever play doesn't make a difference though. Reason being that Yousuf has a natural talent to score big runs, the problem is that Abhas could play the ball very well but he would get out for literally nothing.
quote said:His statistics, excellent as they are, don?t do him quite enough justice. Zaheer Abbas in his prime was a sublime stroke-player. Imran Khan once told me that ?I have never seen the ball timed any better than by Zaheer.?
There were batsmen like Miandad who batted extremely well and who scored over 50 runs a game. If Abhas was as good as Yousuf I think he would have scored somewhere near Miandad don't you think.