All Time XI of different cricketers

[King Pietersen]

In the 2nd Test XI . If I include Sachin then there is no way I can leave out Ponting and Lara. Which would mean leaving out Imran, Viv.

Why would you have to include Ponting and Lara too? You pick the best batsmen available, just because they're from the same era doesn't mean you have to pick all of them, by that token you'd have to pick Kallis too.

The lack of Sachin isn't what confused me though, more the selection of Hayden. Care to give your reasoning behind that, when there are guys like Jack Hobbs, Herbert Sutcliffe, Barry Richards, Arthur Morris, Len Hutton, Bill Ponsford, Bob Simpson, Gordon Greenidge and from the modern era Graeme Smith and Virender Sehwag. I personally rate all of those ahead of Matthew Hayden in Test cricket.

 

[stereotype]

I would take Hayden over Smith and Sehwag anyday from the modern era. I would find it tough picking him in an all time XI but for the last 20 years he is one of the first picked and imo picks himself.

Hayden and Langer is one of the most successful opening partnerships of all time, I would pick Sehwag ahead of Langer though.

 

[Dare]

Why would you have to include Ponting and Lara too? You pick the best batsmen available, just because they're from the same era doesn't mean you have to pick all of them, by that token you'd have to pick Kallis too.

I put no difference between Lara, Ponting and Tendulkar. If I include one then they are all going in. With Sobers and Imran there then there is just no room for any other all-rounders.
If I did another all time XI again in about 2 weeks there would probably only be 3 same guys, Sobers, Bradman and Imran. The others might look different because there are so many good players in history.

The lack of Sachin isn't what confused me though, more the selection of Hayden. Care to give your reasoning behind that, when there are guys like Jack Hobbs, Herbert Sutcliffe, Barry Richards, Arthur Morris, Len Hutton, Bill Ponsford, Bob Simpson, Gordon Greenidge and from the modern era Graeme Smith and Virender Sehwag. I personally rate all of those ahead of Matthew Hayden in Test cricket.

Sehwag and Smith arent there yet, Hayden scored 30 centuries and 29 half centuries the other 2 are just catching up. Richards with his less then 5 tests isn't getting anywhere close to my XI.
The others might as well be put in the XI because it wouldn't be a loss for the team.
Hayden is one of the greatest openers ever and I don't see that big of a problem for him being included in the XI.
I know that you would include Richards in yours because you always have him in there and to me that is more confusing that the Hayden decision, the dude played 4 tests.

 

[ballers101]

Well it's just that I prefer Dhoni down the order over Gilly. Sure Gilly is the better keeper, no doubt but Dhoni can bat extremely well under pressure especially down the order with 10-12 overs remaining. My money's on Dhoni (even though I prefer to watch Gilly over Dhoni).

Plus: Flat track bully or not, an average of 51 is kind of hard to ignore wouldn't you agree? Especially if the guy's runs per innings is more than Gilly's average.

Okay listen Dhoni does not open if I am not mistaken, he bats in the later overs where it is MUCH easier to bat. Gilly is a better wicketkeeper hands down and when it comes to batting lets see something. Okay Dhoni plays well under pressure, but like I said he comes in at 6th or 7th where the teams needs maybe 40 off 40 and you still have some batting left. Where Gilly comes in need 300 off 300 and he is first to face the new ball. Yes Dhoni has a very good average but that means nothing because he comes in with very little delieveries left and he scores maybe 20 or 30 and he doesn't get out. Where unless Gilly gets a 150 not out he will almost every single match get out.

Let me put this into better perspective, if Dhoni were to open or go in at 3 he would have an average at best close to Gilly's. Also, Micheal Hussey has an average of 54 and he plays even better under pressure than many players however, he's not on your list can you explain why. The reason being that he isn't a better cricketer hands down to the Pontings, Tendulkars, Haydens etc.

 

[Dare]

Dhonis numbers are great at #3,4 and 5. He scored all but one of his centuries at those positions, http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28081.html?class=2;template=results;type=batting
Not saying he is better then Gilly just pointing it out.

 

[stereotype]

Why Gilly is usually picked isn't because of his average but his performance in big and crucial situations. When on the big stage and you need to perform Gilchrist has delivered and then some in both tests and ODIs along with the gloves. Naming a greatest ever side the players that deliver in the clutch are the ones that should be considered overall ahead of guys with strong career averages in lesser events.

If we see more of that from Dhoni then maybe he can rank along side Gilchrist but until then I think it is a bit of an unfair comparison.

 

[ballers101]

Dhonis numbers are great at #3,4 and 5. He scored all but one of his centuries at those positions, Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com
Not saying he is better then Gilly just pointing it out.

Well if you play 16 matches as a 3rd and 12 matches as a 4th it really kind of shows you that he generally didn't play enough matches to get into that situation where he would get out. Now at the 5th position as well he only played 36 matches and actually I am extremely surprised that he scores less at 6 then he does at the higher positions considering he usually comes in with barely any overs left in the match.

 

[Dabi]

Okay listen Dhoni does not open if I am not mistaken, he bats in the later overs where it is MUCH easier to bat. Gilly is a better wicketkeeper hands down and when it comes to batting lets see something. Okay Dhoni plays well under pressure, but like I said he comes in at 6th or 7th where the teams needs maybe 40 off 40 and you still have some batting left. Where Gilly comes in need 300 off 300 and he is first to face the new ball. Yes Dhoni has a very good average but that means nothing because he comes in with very little delieveries left and he scores maybe 20 or 30 and he doesn't get out. Where unless Gilly gets a 150 not out he will almost every single match get out.

Let me put this into better perspective, if Dhoni were to open or go in at 3 he would have an average at best close to Gilly's. Also, Micheal Hussey has an average of 54 and he plays even better under pressure than many players however, he's not on your list can you explain why. The reason being that he isn't a better cricketer hands down to the Pontings, Tendulkars, Haydens etc.

*Sigh* Mate, please read my post the next time you decide to rant. I said I prefer Dhoni over Gilly down the order. I know it's easier to bat lower down the order and I know Dhoni's average is inflated due to the not outs. I know he's not as good as Gilly at playing the swinging ball BUT like I said down the order he's better. Secondly I clearly stated that Dhoni's runs per innings (the actual number of runs he makes per innings, not the average) is greater than Gilly's average (including not outs). That is an impressive feat, especially if you look at the other side of the coin; the fact that you have to hit no matter what and you have like 5-10 overs remaining can also be a disadvantag to batsmen!

 

[King Pietersen]

Sehwag and Smith arent there yet, Hayden scored 30 centuries and 29 half centuries the other 2 are just catching up. Richards with his less then 5 tests isn't getting anywhere close to my XI.
The others might as well be put in the XI because it wouldn't be a loss for the team.
Hayden is one of the greatest openers ever and I don't see that big of a problem for him being included in the XI.
I know that you would include Richards in yours because you always have him in there and to me that is more confusing that the Hayden decision, the dude played 4 tests.

Hayden and Sehwag are very similar cricketers, both are essentially flat track bullies with limited techniques. Hayden may have a good record, but if you go through his record in detail, you'd notice that the large proportion of his runs come on flat tracks or against average bowling. It's no co-incidence for me that guys like Hayden and Sehwag have averages over 50 in this era of flat pitches, poor fast bowling stocks and bigger bats. They'd not have been the same players in times gone by. Hence why I don't rate Hayden above any of those names listed. Don't get me wrong, very good opener that scored a lot of runs, but he's nowhere near the top 2 opening batsmen of all-time AFAIC.

Oh, so we're going purely by stats then. Couldn't care less that Richards only played 4 Tests, I've posted my reasons for picking him earlier in this thread. If you're going by stats, which it seems you are with Hayden (as it can't be down to his technique) then you'd have been better off picking Sutcliffe or Hobbs, both have superior records to Hayden.

 

[ballers101]

*Sigh* Mate, please read my post the next time you decide to rant. I said I prefer Dhoni over Gilly down the order. I know it's easier to bat lower down the order and I know Dhoni's average is inflated due to the not outs. I know he's not as good as Gilly at playing the swinging ball BUT like I said down the order he's better. Secondly I clearly stated that Dhoni's runs per innings (the actual number of runs he makes per innings, not the average) is greater than Gilly's average (including not outs). That is an impressive feat, especially if you look at the other side of the coin; the fact that you have to hit no matter what and you have like 5-10 overs remaining can also be a disadvantag to batsmen!

Alright I'll keep that in mind all I was trying to prove was that given the opportunity Gilly would bat extremely well down the order as well, we see in Tests he bats well down the order as well. So he should be able to use those abilities in ODIs as well. Given the opportunity he would bat most likely like Dhoni down the order. Also, his average at the 6 is over 40 so if he batted down the order its not like he would play terrible

 

[Dabi]

Alright I'll keep that in mind all I was trying to prove was that given the opportunity Gilly would bat extremely well down the order as well, we see in Tests he bats well down the order as well. So he should be able to use those abilities in ODIs as well. Given the opportunity he would bat most likely like Dhoni down the order. Also, his average at the 6 is over 40 so if he batted down the order its not like he would play terrible

I didn't say Gilly wouldn't be able to adapt or anything, I just feel Dhoni is better suited lower down the order for that sort of cameo knock. I do have Gilly in my All time Test XI, I wouldn't have if I thought he wasn't good enough.

 

[khalek]

I didn't say Gilly wouldn't be able to adapt or anything, I just feel Dhoni is better suited lower down the order for that sort of cameo knock. I do have Gilly in my All time Test XI, I wouldn't have if I thought he wasn't good enough.

3rd Test: Australia v England at Perth, Dec 14-18, 2006 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

3rd Test: Australia v Pakistan at Sydney, Jan 2-5, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

Those are just couple of them, I am sure there must be many more.

 

[Dabi]

3rd Test: Australia v England at Perth, Dec 14-18, 2006 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

3rd Test: Australia v Pakistan at Sydney, Jan 2-5, 2005 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

Those are just couple of them, I am sure there must be many more.

Dude, that's TEST Cricket, I'm talking about One Day cricket. I do have Gilly as the Test keeper, I'm not saying Dhoni is a better batsman.

 

[khalek]

Ok.

Then it's a baseless comparison cause Gilly wasn't a lower order batsman in ODIs and Dhoni doesn't open the innings so you can't just guess their abilities to finish off games or playing cameos down the order.

What I mean is that they both play in different positions in ODI cricket so it's up to you to decide how you wanna use in your playing XI. Personally, I feel Gilly could have done as good as Dhoni coming down the order and finishing games.

 

[King Pietersen]

Exactly, hence why he picked Dhoni, as he's a keeper that bats down the order. I pick Dhoni for my ODi side too, as I have Tendulkar and Hayden opening and Gilchrist isn't a proven ODi batsman down the order.