Batting too easy on Hard/Hardest difficulty levels

[grkrama]

To me it's a simple exercise in data gathering, analysis and cricketing logic. If I've to go about addressing the logic this is what I would do at a simplistic high level...

1. Look at various shots and determine their success/failure rates. Say cover drive is successfully played 70% of the times. That means there's 30% chances it's miscued. Then figure out how many times the miscue results in an edge. Say 15% of the miscues result in an edge.
2. Then factor in the conditions. in flattish and non-overcast conditions this failure rate drops down to 5% and in green, overcast condition it bumps up to 20-25%
3. Then look at the length of the delivery. Fuller the length, the failure rate goes down further and it increases the shorter the length you are trying to cover drive.
4. Factor in the line of the delivery. If line is closer to the batsman, failure rate drops else it increases.
5. Factor in seam/swing.
6. Factor in batsman's strengths & weaknesses.

The thing is there can't be a simplistic answer/solution to edges. It can't be "cover drive on a green pitch is an automatic edge". Oh and this has to be done for all shot types andAnd that's why I suggest giving more control to the end users by adding a 'Edge Frequency' modifier. Either one generic modifier for all edges or two - one for drives and one for horizontal (cuts & pulls). Or maybe give a 'Edge frequency' modifier for each common shot type - cover drive, straight drive, on drive, glance/flick, cut, pull/hook. I'm more in favor of going the modifier route to solve the problem as Big Ant can crowd source the gameplay balancing and also folks can adjust their own gameplay experience.

This has been the key issue in dbcs, the edge system doesn't show of this kind of depth.
. So most changes affect the whole batting in general. And you would start edging full deliveries that are there sitting upto be driven with no lateral movement..

The length line pace lateral movement distinction really needs to get with the edge system

 

[cricket_online]

This has been the key issue in dbcs, the edge system doesn't show of this kind of depth.
. So most changes affect the whole batting in general. And you would start edging full deliveries that are there sitting upto be driven with no lateral movement..

The length line pace lateral movement distinction really needs to get with the edge system

The core fundamental about edges in cricket is how far the ball pitched away from the batsman while he drove at it. E.g., a ball can be good or short of good length and batsman would need to play on the up and thus more chances of an edge if there's any lateral movement. In this case the ball is pitched away from batsman on y-axis (vertically). Or a ball can be slightly fuller but wide of the off stump so batsman has to reach for it to drive it and may not be able to cover for the lateral movement. In this case the ball is pitched away on the X-axis (horizontally). That's why any edge system has to factor in how far away the ball pitched (combination of x & y axis), whether there was any lateral movement (swing/seam) and whether the batsman reached to the ball (footwork).

That's why most decent batsmen can dispatch half volleys as they've covered the ball for the lateral movement coz even if the ball moves there's not enough distance for the ball to go to beat the batsman and get an edge. Similarly batsmen can still play through the ball even if their feet don't reach the pitch of the ball as long as there's no seam/swing on offer coz if there's lateral movement, the batsman will eventually edge the delivery. This logic has to be built in for an edge system to work. I should be able to nail half volleys on a green mamba if I've the movement covered and also drive with impunity good length deliveries on a flat track. There's no easy answer as line, length, conditions, type of delivery, batsman's strength & quality all go in determining the outcome of a shot. A simplistic logic of say "if green length and green track = edge" will and should not suffice.

IMO this balance between bat and ball and determination of outcome of a particular shot is the fundamental piece on which the game should be built. You've to get it right for other things to work. No amount of great field sets or "next gen AI" can help if the basic balance between bat & ball, which includes the edge system & determination of the shot, is not nailed. This shot and shot result determination logic should be the heart of the game IMO and everything else needs to be built on top of it.

 

[Mondy]

It seems to me that the game the beta testers were praising a couple of months back is not the game we are playing now.

 

[sonimrajk]

This is the most needed thread in the current situation. I really played only few matches after the release and was waiting for the patch to arrive as the batting is very easy in the game.
The patch arrived in this week but the batting is still very easy. I may have to again wait for the next patch as batting is somewhat boring because of lack of edges and easy six hitting issue.
As a serious buyer I really want all my friends to have this game. But i am unable to recommend this to my friends at this point due to this easy batting issue and co op issues.
I believe in bigant and i am hoping they will fix these issues soon.

 

[blockerdave]

It's actually a simple solution. Play legend hardest after half a bottle of wine and two strong Irish coffees. I was 19/4 after 15 overs.

 

[sonimrajk]

@WealeyH hi, i just saw your video on batting modifiers testing. Can you please let me know the modifiers you used?

 

[sonimrajk]

@WealeyH hi, i just saw your video on batting modifiers testing. Can you please let me know the modifiers you used?

Found your settings in other thread.
15 for delivery marker
50 for timing
90 for shot choice
60 for rest

Also can you plz let me know in which difficulty mode you enabled batting modifiers?

 

[cricket_online]

@WealeyH hi, i just saw your video on batting modifiers testing. Can you please let me know the modifiers you used?

I would love to know too. I assumed Wealy was posting video of the beta version.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

The core fundamental about edges in cricket is how far the ball pitched away from the batsman while he drove at it. E.g., a ball can be good or short of good length and batsman would need to play on the up and thus more chances of an edge if there's any lateral movement. In this case the ball is pitched away from batsman on y-axis (vertically). Or a ball can be slightly fuller but wide of the off stump so batsman has to reach for it to drive it and may not be able to cover for the lateral movement. In this case the ball is pitched away on the X-axis (horizontally). That's why any edge system has to factor in how far away the ball pitched (combination of x & y axis), whether there was any lateral movement (swing/seam) and whether the batsman reached to the ball (footwork).

The mechanic I usually suggest for this is something like :

Measure the lateral / vertical deviation which occurs between the batsman and point x in the delivery (simulating reaction time window), and adjust the contact accordingly. The better the batsman, the nearer point x is to him.

A top batsman might, for example, be able to react to deviation which occurs just .15 of a sec away from him, whereas a doofus might not be able to react to deviation occurring .25 of a sec from him.

Measuring how much the batsman has got into line as well is a very good idea, though. Essentially, the more in line (on axis, so to speak) a batsman is, the more easily he is able to detect and respond to movement.

I've no idea how the BA system works, though. No idea how much of this sort of thing is designed into it.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

The core fundamental about edges in cricket is how far the ball pitched away from the batsman while he drove at it. E.g., a ball can be good or short of good length and batsman would need to play on the up and thus more chances of an edge if there's any lateral movement. In this case the ball is pitched away from batsman on y-axis (vertically). Or a ball can be slightly fuller but wide of the off stump so batsman has to reach for it to drive it and may not be able to cover for the lateral movement. In this case the ball is pitched away on the X-axis (horizontally). That's why any edge system has to factor in how far away the ball pitched (combination of x & y axis), whether there was any lateral movement (swing/seam) and whether the batsman reached to the ball (footwork).

That's why most decent batsmen can dispatch half volleys as they've covered the ball for the lateral movement coz even if the ball moves there's not enough distance for the ball to go to beat the batsman and get an edge. Similarly batsmen can still play through the ball even if their feet don't reach the pitch of the ball as long as there's no seam/swing on offer coz if there's lateral movement, the batsman will eventually edge the delivery. This logic has to be built in for an edge system to work. I should be able to nail half volleys on a green mamba if I've the movement covered and also drive with impunity good length deliveries on a flat track. There's no easy answer as line, length, conditions, type of delivery, batsman's strength & quality all go in determining the outcome of a shot. A simplistic logic of say "if green length and green track = edge" will and should not suffice.

IMO this balance between bat and ball and determination of outcome of a particular shot is the fundamental piece on which the game should be built. You've to get it right for other things to work. No amount of great field sets or "next gen AI" can help if the basic balance between bat & ball, which includes the edge system & determination of the shot, is not nailed. This shot and shot result determination logic should be the heart of the game IMO and everything else needs to be built on top of it.

This is the impression I got of the way bowling worked in 17 and it seems from what you say that it's not significantly changed, it was an extremely simplistic system based almost entirely on input timings + RNG. Not much connection between the physics of what you saw on the screen and the end results, rather the "game logic" behind the scenes dictated things based on the simplistic systems that bear little/no relation to the reasons edges happen in real life (as you elaborated on).

I was already skeptical about this game, mostly due to the bowling length control mechanics being worse than DBC14, but it doesn't even sound like it's even an all-round polished/finished product with properly balanced gameplay... I could have been tempted were that the case, but I'm not buying into it with the hope of patches fixing things down the road - 17 did get improvements but is IMO still very lacklustre even in it's "final" version.

 

[blockerdave]

it's why the 2 most dangerous things in cricket are late movement and uneven bounce, because they change the calculation the batsman made and mean he isn't in the right place.

 

[Wealey]

I would love to know too. I assumed Wealy was posting video of the beta version.

No was legend PS4

 

[sonimrajk]

Playing a odi with tweakes suggested by wealey. I m 101-8 for 21 overs.
Thanks @WealeyH for your inputs. I may need to tweak a little bit to make it ideal for odi.
I have a question. I m using pitch marker but the ball is not pitching at the marker point when spinner is bowling. Its moving away a lot. Do you have any idea which setting controls this?

 

[chaman82]

My current settings if any one interested in "pro cam no HUD" gameplay on PS4 with latest patch.

User batting level - easy

Shot power - 30

Shot timing - 0

Shot difficulty - 100

Footwork - 100

Bowl quality - 100.

The above is providing challenging test batting experience. Majority of wkts are thru edges.

Also major problem playing in pro cam was the sight screen issue due to shadows in
day game and loss of framerate when playing under lights.

Solved the above by creating custom stadium with big modern sight screen, no fence and no flood lights.
Ball ( I use the yellow colour) is clearly visible now in night games from both the ends.

Also made my Batting team running attributes to 0 to avoid those easy singles and 3s

 

[cricket_online]

The mechanic I usually suggest for this is something like :

Measure the lateral / vertical deviation which occurs between the batsman and point x in the delivery (simulating reaction time window), and adjust the contact accordingly. The better the batsman, the nearer point x is to him.

A top batsman might, for example, be able to react to deviation which occurs just .15 of a sec away from him, whereas a doofus might not be able to react to deviation occurring .25 of a sec from him.

Measuring how much the batsman has got into line as well is a very good idea, though. Essentially, the more in line (on axis, so to speak) a batsman is, the more easily he is able to detect and respond to movement.

I've no idea how the BA system works, though. No idea how much of this sort of thing is designed into it.

When I was coached as a kid I the one thing which was drummed into me was to get your feet to the pitch of the ball. The reasoning was that once your feet reached the pitch of the delivery, your head would be close or on top of the delivery and hence you will be in a much better position to judge & middle the shot. The farther you are away from the pitch of the ball, the more you have to rely only on your eye and you are bound to end up making a mistake, especially if there's lateral movement.

One way of implementing is to determine where the feet of the batsman is when they play a shot and have a sort of "shot radius" within which he can cover for any movement. The farther the delivery is from that optimal range the more chance of him not middling the ball and end up edging it. Better batsmen will have a larger "shot radius" compared to average ones. Thus if you get a ball outside off, you have to move up and right (as a right hander) and this will get you within the "shot radius" but if you move your feet in the wrong direction (say only up and not up & right on left stick) or not move them in time, the ball will be outside the shot radius and thus more risky. Given that every batsman will have his own shot radius, you will need to account for it and judge line & length accordingly when you play the shot.