Best Bowler Ever.

You've seen a lot of Cricket Robelinda, have you seen Marshall, Hadlee and Lillee play? I'm guessing you have, so I'll take your opinion as an expert one. I basically have to make my mind up on the pre- 2000's players by stats and limited highlights I've seen so it's good to hear from people who have seen the previous legends play.
 
Seen all of Marshall/Hadlee from 1978 onwards, most of Lillee, and all of McGrath obviously. McGrath is the odd one, he was an outstanding bowler, and his subcontinent record is excellent, but no way Hadlee or Marshall would be outbowled but him. Champion bowler all round the world, he would be my 3rd pick after those two, not many batsmen dominated McGarth( Hah!) not Lara or Tendulkar.
 
Robelinda said:
Well I would go with Hadlee and Marshall, wouldnt go with Wasim as he was mostly played with ease in aussie conditions and rarely dominated us here or even in Pakistan, but he never bowled badly though it has to be said, and his record looks decent on paper against Australia but our top order blunted him quite well in 95 and 99 where we beat Pakistan easily with big scores. In 1989/90 he was awesome at the MCG, but didnt have any answer to Dean Jones at Adelaide, twin tons knocked the stuffing out of Wasim then. He saved his best for other countries it seems, but from memory doesnt he average in the 30's against England??? Thats not good for a supposed best of all time, assuming i'm right about that 30 average......cricinfo here i come!

Hadlee and Marshall were almost unplayable in any conditions, guys like Lillee dont even compare, though I am a big Lillee fan.
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Wasim test bowling average against Australia is 25 and its 24 in Australia. Those stats do not suggest he was blunted by Aussies in Australia or Pakistan.
 
Did you see him bowl in those tests? Stats dont tell everything, he couldve got all tailend wickets, which he didnt always, but he didnt trouble us too much, average of 25 is hardly best of all time numbers. 4/100 in an innings gives you an average of 25, and that isnt exactly great bowling figures. Even on pitches he shouldve ripped through us like at the Gabba in 95 or Perth in 99 he was ineffective.
 
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Robelinda said:
Did you see him bowl in those tests? Stats dont tell everything, he couldve got all tailend wickets, which he didnt always, but he didnt trouble us too much, average of 25 is hardly best of all time numbers. 4/100 in an innings gives you an average of 25, and that isnt exactly great bowling figures. Even on pitches he shouldve ripped through us like at the Gabba in 95 or Perth in 99 he was ineffective.
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I have seen him bowl in 1999 series in Australia and I agree he was not that devastating but average of 24 or 25 against the top side at it peak is pretty good IMO.
 
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No doubt Akram is great, just dont agree he was the best ever. And the aussie side of 99 was not quite at its peak yet, Slater/Blewett doesnt compare at all to Hayden/Langer for example. Australia at the time was hardly performing, we had just lost to Sri Lanka in a test series for the first time and only drew with the WI the same year. On paper Pakistan posed a massive threat.
 
Its really hard to decide all time great when I started watching cricket from 1996 onwards :p
I haven't seen much of the old greats and I hate to champion for a player by looking at stats only. So from the modern era of players as we call it, I would go for Glenn Mcgrath simply because I have never seen a more disciplined bowler. He was effective where ever he bowled and batsmen had trouble facing him. For me he is the best bowler I have seen :p
 
IMO Akram was the best... When he was in form he was almost unplayable. There is a video of him on youtube where he flinged up dravid. First he had two plumb lbw shouts discarded on consecutive deliveries (inswingers from over the wicket,pitching on middle and hitting middle). So what he do next ball. He bowls a outswinger which pitches on leg, dravid goes to defend it, it shapes away,misses the bat and hits the top of off stump... Cuts the dravid in half... I was like WTF :eek: after seeing that video..

I just saw stats of Asif on cricinfo, boy he has some really commendable stats, had he not been in all those controversies of drugs i would surely have nominated him here. He has 102 wickets from 21 games at avg 23 and seven 5 fors,one 10 for..:hpraise
 
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I can only say based on what I've seen, and I've seen enough videos of Akram to say that he was the best. In full flight he was just amazing. He had all the tricks - pace, seam, conventional swing, reverse swing. Glen McGrath would not be far behind, but he was a completely different bowler. He was the most consistenly accurate bowler I've seen. He wasn't as "flashy" as Akram with all the tricks, but he was so consistent it's scary. I've only seen a few youtube clips of Marshall so I can't say he's the best.
 
Robelinda said:
Did you see him bowl in those tests? Stats dont tell everything, he couldve got all tailend wickets, which he didnt always, but he didnt trouble us too much, average of 25 is hardly best of all time numbers. 4/100 in an innings gives you an average of 25, and that isnt exactly great bowling figures. Even on pitches he shouldve ripped through us like at the Gabba in 95 or Perth in 99 he was ineffective.
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I dont think Akram was @ his peak in the 1999 tour to AUS though. His effectiveness as a test bowler was already in decline since 1997 i'd say.


Robelinda said:
Hadlee and Marshall were almost unplayable in any conditions, guys like Lillee dont even compare, though I am a big Lillee fan.
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True. But i've always felt Lillee could have been just as devastating in all conditions (especially the sub-continent). If circumstances & injuries didn't prevent him from playing there.
 
I used to say Marshall but recently I've been more convinced by Akram. I just think, in terms of being able to produce magic he was unmatched.

I'm not really as concerned about stats for bowlers as batsmen. Akram had more ways to get people out in my opinion, could set batsmen up and bowl jaffa's, he probably bowled more unplayable deliveries than anyone else in cricket ever.
 
Dare said:
This was brought up when cricinfo showed the "Legends of Cricket: Malcolm Marshall" episode.
Stats analysis: Malcolm Marshall | Specials | Cricinfo Magazine | Cricinfo.com
It sums up some of the greatest fast bowlers and some key stats. It is interesting that the best fast bowlers in Asia since 1970 doesn't have any fast bowlers from Asia.
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those stats are for overseas bowlers in asia.

imran would top that table with 205 wickets at 20.28 would sit at the top of that table. Waqar would come just under walsh in 3rd, and akram would come in under steyn and hadlee in 6th.
 
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