Best Bowler Ever.

[Shoaib87]

Ambrose and McGrath over Murali and Donald over Warne?

I feel posters in this thread are underrating spinners...

Yes thats because I believe
Great Fast Bowlers>Great Spinners

Warne to some extent depended on McGrath for his wicets.Check his stats for the matches in which McGrath didn't play & you'll get a fair idea what I'm trying to say!

 

[SciD]

I will only say about the ones I have seen live on TV or stadium.

Wasim Akram - fast bowler
Shane Warne - spinner

Nothing much to say about Wasim. He was great for any conditions (seaming pitch, hard pitch, sub continent flat track and when ball swung in air). Played in all formats of game with great ease and had best of batsman in trouble.

 

[ksduded]

When it comes to best bowler, I don't think stats can be the only gauge. There are a lot of factors involved (pitch, opposition, match condition etc.) which affects the averages.

The quality of Wasim is that he can bowl 6 different wicket taking deliveries in an over. Bowling a consistent line like McGrath (Asif etc.) means that you are amazing at one or two types of deliveries.... but Wasim was an artist with the ball. I would always take art over science when deciding the best.

 

[Dare]

Ambrose was pretty awesome, but faded rather quickly from around 1994, lost his pace and wasnt the threat he was in the late 80's/early 90's. The fear factor just went. On that famous 05 tour most of the Aussies were rather surprised at his lack of venom, and he was almost dropped until that ridiculous Trinidad greentop, but he showed in that 4th test that he was no threat anymore, our top 6 just milked him for 2 days.

Well the Aussies arent the only team in cricket.

I divided his career in 2 parts of 6 years each.

1988-end of 1994 48 tests, 219 wickets, average 21.08, SR 54, 11 fivefers and 3 10 wicket hauls.
1995-2000 50 tests, 186 wickets, average 20.88, SR 55.3, 11 fivefers

Against the Aussies in those same periods.

1988-1994 15 tests, 77 wickets, average 20.6, SR 52.2
1995-2000 12 tests, 52 tests, 22.05, SR 52.3

Numbers are similar all around.

 

[Fatal Shot]

I'll go with Imran Khan. His record is already quite brilliant, and one has to take in account that he missed some of his best years as a test bowler due to a stress fracture in his shin I believe. Despite that, he still came back and was a devastating bowler, who could bowl with both the new ball and old ball. If he had not missed those three years, he would have had around 500 Test wickets. One must take that into account when picking the best bowler. After him I would say Malcolm Marshall. Ball after ball, it just seemed that they were showing a action replay. He could decode a batsman's flaws faster than any other bowler I have seen. He was truly magical when on song, which he usually was. Consistency, like I have never seen in my life.

 

[Symptom_Control]

Shane Warne

 

[Dare]

Shane Warne

Good explanation too. Almost understood why he in your opinion is the best.

 

[Symptom_Control]

Warne just seemed to me , especially at his peak, as the most deadly bowler on any surface in any context. A great tactician and never gave up. His effort in the losing 2005 ashes as a great example. Plus he did more than anyone else to revive spin bowling when it seemed dead in the water

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

Warne just seemed to me , especially at his peak, as the most deadly bowler on any surface in any context. A great tactician and never gave up. His effort in the losing 2005 ashes as a great example. Plus he did more than anyone else to revive spin bowling when it seemed dead in the water

I hear that "revive" thing a lot. since warne's debut the only legspinner of note has been Kaneria, and possibly Mishra in recent times. Kumble and Mushtaq made their debuts two years before warne.

It was Qadir that kept spin bowling alive before the spin explosion of the early 90s which included Mushtaq amd Murali aswell as kumble and warne.

 

[Symptom_Control]

While no way wishing to disparage the other fine spin bowlers I think it was Warne's accuracy and effectiveness that he was able to aslo bring to one day matches that changed the mind-set of captains and selectors about the role of spin.
Plus I suppose its more correct to say that spin was dying outside asia, it never went away in those nations with a strong tradition
Lets not forget Stuart McGill too, a fine legspinner who must rue being in the same generation as Warne

But I accept that there is no way to really determine who was the best, I could easily accept the arguments for Murali, Hadlee, Marshall, Akram, Lillee, Ambrose who I have seen + my old dad always used to argue that Bill O'Reilly and Clarrie Grimmett were better than Warne. And Bradman rated O'Reilly as the best he faced with Harold Larwood and Alec Bedser not far behind so I would consider them up there too. Plus you can't ignore SF Barnes figures and reputation either.

Be hard to see anyone reaching those heights in future unless more is done to even the bias in favour of batsmen

 

[Prithvi]

Pacer: McGrath
Spinner: Kumble

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

ok, I would propose that the best ever is in this list

Barnes
O'Reilly
Lillee
Marshall
Holding
Ambrose
Imran Khan
Hadlee
Akram
Murali
Warne

Unlucky to miss out, but I think justified are

Garner - generally the most under-rated of the west indians but I think he is generally considered behind the three already listed
Grimmett - I think O'reilly was generally accepted as the superior pre-warne spinner
Waqar - can't be considered as Akram his opening bowling partner is considered the superior.
Mcgrath - great record but there isn't many aussies who would pick him as the greatest fast bowler even australia has produced. Walsh is in the same boat, though unlike mcgrath who has only lillee ahead of him Walsh has about 6 or 7 team mates ahead.
Indian spin quartet - lacked a stand out and I doubt anyone would put them ahead of murali or warne.
all english bowlers were mucked about a bit and none stood out for a signifcant time.
Kumble - great player, but playing alongside murali and warne makes it easy to discount him as the greatets spinner ever as he was not the greatest spinner of even his own era.

Of the ones I've listed

I would say Barnes (on ground of playing on stupid wickets and in days when the game was in it's infancy) and O'reilly (i think it's safe to say the best spinner ever is one of murali and warne) can be taken out

leaving us with

Lillee
Marshall
Holding
Ambrose
Imran Khan
Hadlee
Akram
Murali
Warne

can't really make a clear case for any of those above the others. Lillee is maybe the most precariously placed but even he has his trumpeters. Hadlees determination and discipline, Imrans inspiration, charisma and record, Holdings Action and speed, Ambroses menace, Marshalls stats, skill and longevity in a team where fast bowling competition was fierce as possible, Akrams artistry and pure talent, warnes intelligence, charisma and match winning ability, murali's sheer turn and skill, his record and that he took a minnow up to competing with the best teams almost single handedly.

I don't think anyone else can get into that shortlist, but the two I took out I suppose could end up going back in.

 

[shravi]

Man, I wish I was 20 years older. I wonder which young cricketers that are playing today will be held in such high regard in 20 or 30 years...

 

[pcfan123]

I hear that "revive" thing a lot. since warne's debut the only legspinner of note has been Kaneria, and possibly Mishra in recent times. Kumble and Mushtaq made their debuts two years before warne.

It was Qadir that kept spin bowling alive before the spin explosion of the early 90s which included Mushtaq amd Murali aswell as kumble and warne.

Just want to say that I also initially thought Mishra was one for the future but the man seems very limited. I don't think he will be the bowler I once thought he could be.

 

[Cricketman]

I think Ojha holds a lot of promise though.