Captains

[sohum]

Since when do Aussies know about the spirit of the game??? Vaughan got a lucky break I must admit but he is a good leader. The Aussies are still the best cricket team but definitely dont have the best captain. You dont have to be a good batsman to be a good captain.

I disagree. I don't think there would be any captain in the world who would merit selection purely based on captaincy. If you're not one of the top batsmen, bowlers or wicket-keepers in your country and your captaincy is just above average, you wouldn't be in my final XI.

 

[andrew_nixon]

I disagree. I don't think there would be any captain in the world who would merit selection purely based on captaincy.

Not these days, but Mike Brearly certainly managed it back in the early 80s.

 

[tsyrmas]

Since when do Aussies know about the spirit of the game??? Vaughan got a lucky break I must admit but he is a good leader. The Aussies are still the best cricket team but definitely dont have the best captain. You dont have to be a good batsman to be a good captain.

since whenever a batsmen gets hit, the coordine go and see if he is ok. and tell me, who borght on more sub feilfers in the ashes? and also, who brought on maore unnessisary sub fielders.???? btw, this is not a retorical question, i actually want an answer

 

[skunk_pietersen]

Heres your answer: Yes he did do this but it was a loophole in the rules. The Aussies did it well before Vaughan was even captain of England. Cast your memory back to the Sydney test when the English were in Australia last (2002/2003). If u dont remember, Hussey and Hogg (sub fielders) took the field in that test for the two pace bowlers Gillespie and McGrath for half the day (England won that final test). The rule also states that the amount of time these players are off the field is the time they can bowl again in the innings. Do u catch my drift?? If not I'll give you another example when the Aussies have used sub fielders. How many times has Brett Lee or more recently Stuart Clark and Nathan Bracken been named 12th man in the test side and never actually brought the drinks out?? They haven't been there to do this. Instead they've been playing Pura Cup for NSW! Now dont tell me that the Aussies don't play a tough game and are all sportsmanlike. Just take a look at the boxing day test against South Africa. Over-appealing and dissent. Is that in the sprit of the game? I think not.
The English dished it back out and it started with the Twenty20 clash and the Natwest series before the real cricket started. Look at the selectors (Ponting being one of the peoiple that has a say). Why was there no MacGill? Why did they go off for bad light at the Oval when they needed to win and retain the ashes? Was this in the game plan? If it was it was pretty crap. The Aussies got outplayed and outcaptained during the Ashes and they can only blame themselves. The English, South Africans and the New Zealanders haven't lost to Bangladesh yet either!!

 

[langerrox]

Because of that one stroke of genius doesn't make Vaughan the best captain, His done it once, when he did captain in pakistan they werent as good as the ashes.

 

[skunk_pietersen]

One stroke of genius? You dont work for the press do u? It would make a good headline in the Sun. Sure, his side did not win in Pakistan but England were considered the best side for the calendar year having won six series straight wasn't it?? I'm still not convinced by Ponting. Vaughan is a great captain- not as good as Steve Waugh or Taylor and Border before him. Currently (as far as seasoned performers go) Fleming of New Zealand is a very well accomplished captain but we must all remember that cricket is a team sport and you can only do what you can with what you've got. Remember this word: UTILISATION. Ponting doesn't do this. Why does he bowl Warne for so many overs? Why did he bowl Hussey on the first day of the Sydney Test? It doesn't make sense. Although I must agree (and so do the English) that the Aussies are still the best in the world. I can't argue with that. They just dont have a good captain. If anything, Warne should be captain not that he doesn't do it already.

 

[tsyrmas]

Heres your answer: Yes he did do this but it was a loophole in the rules. The Aussies did it well before Vaughan was even captain of England. Cast your memory back to the Sydney test when the English were in Australia last (2002/2003). If u dont remember, Hussey and Hogg (sub fielders) took the field in that test for the two pace bowlers Gillespie and McGrath for half the day (England won that final test). The rule also states that the amount of time these players are off the field is the time they can bowl again in the innings. Do u catch my drift?? If not I'll give you another example when the Aussies have used sub fielders. How many times has Brett Lee or more recently Stuart Clark and Nathan Bracken been named 12th man in the test side and never actually brought the drinks out?? They haven't been there to do this. Instead they've been playing Pura Cup for NSW! Now dont tell me that the Aussies don't play a tough game and are all sportsmanlike. Just take a look at the boxing day test against South Africa. Over-appealing and dissent. Is that in the sprit of the game? I think not.
The English dished it back out and it started with the Twenty20 clash and the Natwest series before the real cricket started. Look at the selectors (Ponting being one of the peoiple that has a say). Why was there no MacGill? Why did they go off for bad light at the Oval when they needed to win and retain the ashes? Was this in the game plan? If it was it was pretty crap. The Aussies got outplayed and outcaptained during the Ashes and they can only blame themselves. The English, South Africans and the New Zealanders haven't lost to Bangladesh yet either!!

keep your hat on buddy. this isn't the "why Australia lost the ashes" thread. this is about captains. no i don't remember hussey and hogg fielding in Sydney. and even so, thats one occasion. i can name 5 that england have done it. test no. 1,2,3,4 and 5 of the ashes series in 2005. thats not in the spirit of the game. i'm sure on one or two occasions most teams have taken off the bowlers, but Vaughan did it consitantly over one whole series. i will not deny that Australia sledge, but thats part of the game, and everyone does it. however, how often do you see ponting doing the things that vaughan did in the ashes. VERY RARELY, if ever. Vaughan was the only individual of three, including Ponting and an ICC representative not to sign an agreemant to reinforce the spirit of cricket into the ashes.

One stroke of genius? You dont work for the press do u? It would make a good headline in the Sun. Sure, his side did not win in Pakistan but England were considered the best side for the calendar year having won six series straight wasn't it?? I'm still not convinced by Ponting. Vaughan is a great captain- not as good as Steve Waugh or Taylor and Border before him. Currently (as far as seasoned performers go) Fleming of New Zealand is a very well accomplished captain but we must all remember that cricket is a team sport and you can only do what you can with what you've got. Remember this word: UTILISATION. Ponting doesn't do this. Why does he bowl Warne for so many overs? Why did he bowl Hussey on the first day of the Sydney Test? It doesn't make sense. Although I must agree (and so do the English) that the Aussies are still the best in the world. I can't argue with that. They just dont have a good captain. If anything, Warne should be captain not that he doesn't do it already.

well, when you have got the best spinner ever in your team, and he can dismiss any batsmen in the world, why wouldn't you use him? are you saying that he would bowl less overs playing for england? or any team?

 

[langerrox]

One stroke of genius? You dont work for the press do u? It would make a good headline in the Sun. Sure, his side did not win in Pakistan but England were considered the best side for the calendar year having won six series straight wasn't it?? I'm still not convinced by Ponting. Vaughan is a great captain- not as good as Steve Waugh or Taylor and Border before him. Currently (as far as seasoned performers go) Fleming of New Zealand is a very well accomplished captain but we must all remember that cricket is a team sport and you can only do what you can with what you've got. Remember this word: UTILISATION. Ponting doesn't do this. Why does he bowl Warne for so many overs? Why did he bowl Hussey on the first day of the Sydney Test? It doesn't make sense. Although I must agree (and so do the English) that the Aussies are still the best in the world. I can't argue with that. They just dont have a good captain. If anything, Warne should be captain not that he doesn't do it already.

i never said that ponting was a good captain, i believe he isnt, im just saying that vaughan isnt great either, Fleming would be one of the best around

 

[skunk_pietersen]

well, when you have got the best spinner ever in your team, and he can dismiss any batsmen in the world, why wouldn't you use him? are you saying that he would bowl less overs playing for england? or any team?

You are a smart one aren't you? I know what the thread is about. There is no need to insult my intelligence. You wanted a response so u got one. In further response to the above quote, if you had such a cricketing brain, what would u do? Would you honestly bowl one person for 30 to 40 overs per day for meagre results? I wouldn't think so. After a while, any batsman in the world can read warne. Look at the Perth test and the Oval test for further proof.

Warnie will always take wickets cos he is (as u say) a great cricketer.

i never said that ponting was a good captain, i believe he isnt, im just saying that vaughan isnt great either, Fleming would be one of the best around

Fair enough. But every captain has weaknesses. Vaughan showed that at Old Trafford and at Edgbaston. Fleming couldn't do back in 2004/2005 what he did back in 2001/2002 simply because both sides had dramatically changed (with regards to players).

keep your hat on buddy. this isn't the "why Australia lost the ashes" thread. this is about captains. no i don't remember hussey and hogg fielding in Sydney. and even so, thats one occasion. i can name 5 that england have done it. test no. 1,2,3,4 and 5 of the ashes series in 2005. thats not in the spirit of the game. i'm sure on one or two occasions most teams have taken off the bowlers, but Vaughan did it consitantly over one whole series. i will not deny that Australia sledge, but thats part of the game, and everyone does it. however, how often do you see ponting doing the things that vaughan did in the ashes. VERY RARELY, if ever. Vaughan was the only individual of three, including Ponting and an ICC representative not to sign an agreemant to reinforce the spirit of cricket into the ashes.

so u can count then?? :happy

 

[tsyrmas]

You are a smart one aren't you? I know what the thread is about. There is no need to insult my intelligence. You wanted a response so u got one. In further response to the above quote, if you had such a cricketing brain, what would u do? Would you honestly bowl one person for 30 to 40 overs per day for meagre results? I wouldn't think so. After a while, any batsman in the world can read warne. Look at the Perth test and the Oval test for further proof.

Warnie will always take wickets cos he is (as u say) a great cricketer.

im no more intelligent then the next guy, and if you know what the thread is about stick to it. if, after a while any batsmen can read warne, then why does he take countless amounts of wickets against england? they have been facing him for over a decade, and still, they show no signs of conquering the master. he very rarely produces meagre results, and with warne, theres always a chance of getting a wicket. may i remind you that the perth wicket is the best seamers wicket in the world. honestly mate, you are embarrasing yourself.

 

[skunk_pietersen]

Dude i'm not the one who's repeating myself. The thread is about captains not Warne and i'm not your mate. Why dont you go back to your city of churches and your crappy west end beer. For the record, coopers isn't that good either. You also have a creek for a river.

Oh, and didn't I say that Warnie will always take wickets? Shane Warne takes wickets against all opposition not just the English in all conditions. 1 for 136 is pretty crap after 36 overs work. Grow a brain and learn to read- this thread is about CAPTAINS!!! derr

 

[tsyrmas]

Dude i'm not the one who's repeating myself. The thread is about captains not Warne and i'm not your mate. Why dont you go back to your city of churches and your crappy west end beer. For the record, coopers isn't that good either. You also have a creek for a river.

Oh, and didn't I say that Warnie will always take wickets? Shane Warne takes wickets against all opposition not just the English in all conditions. 1 for 136 is pretty crap after 36 overs work. Grow a brain and learn to read- this thread is about CAPTAINS!!! derr

i know you aren't my mate, i was being sarcastic. i am above tards like you. why don't you go bacl to your feral footy clubs, disgusting accent, overcast skies and VB Victorian *******/bogan beer and stop posting here. you doin no good. people do not want to read about the landscape of SA, nor the churches or beer quality. i can read, im not a victorian.

you were the one that went off on the tangent of bowling warne. i simply corrected your obvious errors. jus for the record, can you please name a better bowler then warne playiong today?

 

[andrew_nixon]

OK children, take this sad and pathetic argument away from the forums please.

 

[Sureshot]

i never said that ponting was a good captain, i believe he isnt, im just saying that vaughan isnt great either, Fleming would be one of the best around

What part of his captaincy doesn't make him great then?

He worked out Gilly.
Does great field placings quite often.
And often his change of bowlers in the Ashes produced a wicket.

His batting is declining, but that doesn't affect his ability to captain.

 

[kodos]

i never said that ponting was a good captain, i believe he isnt, im just saying that vaughan isnt great either, Fleming would be one of the best around

I agree, but i still think Vaughan is a better captain that Ponting. Fleming is the best in the world atm