Commonwealth Bank Series
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Mars Maximus
International Coach
brad352 said:
I think maybe Sureshot wants just that lol
davefryer
School Cricketer
What a load of rubbish! There has been many succesful bowling captains. Just because Freddie made a few mistakes - not many- and mainly to do with field placement the U.K. cricket fans want to demolish him. Not to mention the selectors. I thought that he was one of the few that stood up and had a real go in the Test series.puddleduck said:
puddleduck
Chairman of Selectors
How is it a load or rubbish? His record as captain is won 2 tests, drawn 2 tests lost 7. He has yet to win a series as captain. In Odis he has lost I think it's 5 out of 6.
I think you'll find instead of demolishing what I want is for him to be left to play his own game. He can inspire players without the need to be captain, that is what he does as a player, so at the moment if he has a bad day we lose not only our captain but our main source of inspiration.
I think it's fairly obvious that his aggression drops when he's skipper, and his performances as a player alone have been mediocre at best.
Let's also take a look at the most successful captains in history.. Steve Waugh, Clive Lloyd, Ganguly, Hansie Cronje, Vaughan, Fleming, Ponting, Brearley... hmm notice a trend at all?
Let's look at chaps who as captain haven't done as well as their talent suggested they might, Flintoff, Botham, Sobers... notice a trend at all?
Of course he stood up and had a go in the test series, that's what Freddie will always do, but he will always do that as a player, and it's certainly not rubbish to suggest that his fielding placements, and bowling changes were never up to scratch, as well as the fact that he is believed to have been one of the biggest advocates for playing Giles ahead of Panesar.
Basically Dave, I shall return your comment back to you.. what a load of rubbish
Edit - If you had seen my posts for a good while now, you would also see that I was against his appointment even for the India tour where we got a fairly decent result drawing in India. Even then his field placements were defensive, and in the drawn test it was lack of attacking instincts as captain that cost us the test. Against Kumble, someone who doesn't like it short they banged it in but without a short leg, and for a good 30 minutes the ball kept popping up to the vacant short leg position. He went on to hit a vital partnership and in the process save the match for India.
Against Sri Lanka, he then showed his lack of ingenuity essentially bowling himself for the majority of the match and for the second series including the India one hid Monty Panesar and underbowled one of our geniune wicket taking options.
Basically mate, I wouldn't tell me I'm talking rubbish when I have undoubtedly seen a lot more of Englands cricket, and especially Freddies captaincy in the last year than you have.
I think you'll find instead of demolishing what I want is for him to be left to play his own game. He can inspire players without the need to be captain, that is what he does as a player, so at the moment if he has a bad day we lose not only our captain but our main source of inspiration.
I think it's fairly obvious that his aggression drops when he's skipper, and his performances as a player alone have been mediocre at best.
Let's also take a look at the most successful captains in history.. Steve Waugh, Clive Lloyd, Ganguly, Hansie Cronje, Vaughan, Fleming, Ponting, Brearley... hmm notice a trend at all?
Let's look at chaps who as captain haven't done as well as their talent suggested they might, Flintoff, Botham, Sobers... notice a trend at all?
Of course he stood up and had a go in the test series, that's what Freddie will always do, but he will always do that as a player, and it's certainly not rubbish to suggest that his fielding placements, and bowling changes were never up to scratch, as well as the fact that he is believed to have been one of the biggest advocates for playing Giles ahead of Panesar.
Basically Dave, I shall return your comment back to you.. what a load of rubbish
Edit - If you had seen my posts for a good while now, you would also see that I was against his appointment even for the India tour where we got a fairly decent result drawing in India. Even then his field placements were defensive, and in the drawn test it was lack of attacking instincts as captain that cost us the test. Against Kumble, someone who doesn't like it short they banged it in but without a short leg, and for a good 30 minutes the ball kept popping up to the vacant short leg position. He went on to hit a vital partnership and in the process save the match for India.
Against Sri Lanka, he then showed his lack of ingenuity essentially bowling himself for the majority of the match and for the second series including the India one hid Monty Panesar and underbowled one of our geniune wicket taking options.
Basically mate, I wouldn't tell me I'm talking rubbish when I have undoubtedly seen a lot more of Englands cricket, and especially Freddies captaincy in the last year than you have.
Last edited:
davefryer
School Cricketer
Jeez you blokes are harsh! I don't know if you've ever been a bowler but believe me, everyone can get carted. Don't you remember Glen getting belted for about 150/1 in India? Or Warne getting whacked all over the park for (at one stage) 126/0 and ending up with one wicket for the day? Stuart Clarke is going to torment batsmen all over the world before he's finished.John Adams said:Yea amazing how Clark couldn't hack the one day pressure, so it seemed. That just shows he's no Glen McGrath! Coz Glen bowls superbly in all formats of the game. I'll miss him after the World Cup.
puddleduck
Chairman of Selectors
davefryer said:
I will agree with you here however, give Stuey a chance lads! In the test series he showed he had superb control with the ball, so if he can adjust his lengths to include an on demand yorker he can still be a big success in Odi cricket. If however he continues to just put the ball on a length then yes he may struggle. However he certainly seemed to show in the test series that he would have the ability to adapt.
Mars Maximus
International Coach
Yea I am so harsh! No quarter! Clark should of got 5 wickets at Hobart! lol nah yea I guess I was kinda harsh, it's just that after the stunning test series, I thought maybe he could've bowled the same magic in the one dayers. Well I'm sure one day he will
RoboRocks
Chairman of Selectors
puddleduck said:
Agreed, McGrath did.
Stuart Clark can too.
davefryer
School Cricketer
O.K. Point(s) taken and I acknowledge that you have a great deal more Knowledge of the nuances of English cricket than I do. I suppose that what I was trying to convey is that it was great to see a big-hearted fella having a real rip for his team when the rest of them were falling down around him.puddleduck said:How is it a load or rubbish? His record as captain is won 2 tests, drawn 2 tests lost 7. He has yet to win a series as captain. In Odis he has lost I think it's 5 out of 6.
I think you'll find instead of demolishing what I want is for him to be left to play his own game. He can inspire players without the need to be captain, that is what he does as a player, so at the moment if he has a bad day we lose not only our captain but our main source of inspiration.
I think it's fairly obvious that his aggression drops when he's skipper, and his performances as a player alone have been mediocre at best.
Let's also take a look at the most successful captains in history.. Steve Waugh, Clive Lloyd, Ganguly, Hansie Cronje, Vaughan, Fleming, Ponting, Brearley... hmm notice a trend at all?
Let's look at chaps who as captain haven't done as well as their talent suggested they might, Flintoff, Botham, Sobers... notice a trend at all?
Of course he stood up and had a go in the test series, that's what Freddie will always do, but he will always do that as a player, and it's certainly not rubbish to suggest that his fielding placements, and bowling changes were never up to scratch, as well as the fact that he is believed to have been one of the biggest advocates for playing Giles ahead of Panesar.
Basically Dave, I shall return your comment back to you.. what a load of rubbish
Edit - If you had seen my posts for a good while now, you would also see that I was against his appointment even for the India tour where we got a fairly decent result drawing in India. Even then his field placements were defensive, and in the drawn test it was lack of attacking instincts as captain that cost us the test. Against Kumble, someone who doesn't like it short they banged it in but without a short leg, and for a good 30 minutes the ball kept popping up to the vacant short leg position. He went on to hit a vital partnership and in the process save the match for India.
Against Sri Lanka, he then showed his lack of ingenuity essentially bowling himself for the majority of the match and for the second series including the India one hid Monty Panesar and underbowled one of our geniune wicket taking options.
Basically mate, I wouldn't tell me I'm talking rubbish when I have undoubtedly seen a lot more of Englands cricket, and especially Freddies captaincy in the last year than you have.
Perhaps you're correct about leaving him to play and not captain but I can tell you that he's won a lot of points over here for his efforts. I still think that the English selectors tool around with the team way too much. You can't have a cohesive team if they don't remain together for a reasonable time.
Can anybody name the young leg-spinner who took 6/35 in yesterdays' Australian state match. This is a guy I've been watching since he ripped through the order in an under 19's match two and a half years ago.
Cricket_god
Associate Cricketer
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2005
- Location
- heaven
puddleduck said:How is it a load or rubbish? His record as captain is won 2 tests, drawn 2 tests lost 7. He has yet to win a series as captain. In Odis he has lost I think it's 5 out of 6.
I think you'll find instead of demolishing what I want is for him to be left to play his own game. He can inspire players without the need to be captain, that is what he does as a player, so at the moment if he has a bad day we lose not only our captain but our main source of inspiration.
I think it's fairly obvious that his aggression drops when he's skipper, and his performances as a player alone have been mediocre at best.
Let's also take a look at the most successful captains in history.. Steve Waugh, Clive Lloyd, Ganguly, Hansie Cronje, Vaughan, Fleming, Ponting, Brearley... hmm notice a trend at all?
Let's look at chaps who as captain haven't done as well as their talent suggested they might, Flintoff, Botham, Sobers... notice a trend at all?
Of course he stood up and had a go in the test series, that's what Freddie will always do, but he will always do that as a player, and it's certainly not rubbish to suggest that his fielding placements, and bowling changes were never up to scratch, as well as the fact that he is believed to have been one of the biggest advocates for playing Giles ahead of Panesar.
Basically Dave, I shall return your comment back to you.. what a load of rubbish
Edit - If you had seen my posts for a good while now, you would also see that I was against his appointment even for the India tour where we got a fairly decent result drawing in India. Even then his field placements were defensive, and in the drawn test it was lack of attacking instincts as captain that cost us the test. Against Kumble, someone who doesn't like it short they banged it in but without a short leg, and for a good 30 minutes the ball kept popping up to the vacant short leg position. He went on to hit a vital partnership and in the process save the match for India.
Against Sri Lanka, he then showed his lack of ingenuity essentially bowling himself for the majority of the match and for the second series including the India one hid Monty Panesar and underbowled one of our geniune wicket taking options.
Basically mate, I wouldn't tell me I'm talking rubbish when I have undoubtedly seen a lot more of Englands cricket, and especially Freddies captaincy in the last year than you have.
Which test in india are you commenting on the first test was on a pitch which would have given no result even after 10 days of cricket,the second
test india won and the third england won
His captaincy was outstanding the way he played and carried the team was commendable its takes time for captains to mature and being a allrounder he can understand both views of batsman and bowler.
Also tactical errors or decisons you are taking about are instinct decisons which differ from captain to captain .On some days it pays up on other it backfires .i would not judge a captain in a few matches where he did not knew how much time he would be captain.
puddleduck
Chairman of Selectors
It was either the first or second test, India were allowed to drift for a good 10-20 overs and add a big lower order partnership that effectively ended any chances of an England win. It was little moments throughout that series, then the Sri Lanka series and this Australia series where throughout he has been defensive, often lacking in trust for his spin bowler. As you say it is instinct, and on more than a few occassions his instinct has been shown to be defensive, and the wrong call.
In India, he did play well and lead from the front but as I said before, he can do that as a player, and inspire, if he is captain as well and gets bogged down as the Aussies have done, not only is the main source of inspiration gone, but so has your captain with it.
In India, he did play well and lead from the front but as I said before, he can do that as a player, and inspire, if he is captain as well and gets bogged down as the Aussies have done, not only is the main source of inspiration gone, but so has your captain with it.
davefryer
School Cricketer
wfdu_ben91 said:
Yeah, Magilla is a great bowler and I believe that he actually gets more lateral movement than Warnie but he has never mastered the flight, pace, and loop as well as him. He would have been Australias' #1 spin bowler for years if he hadn't been born around the same time as Shane. He can hold up an end with defensive strokes but you could never call him a batsman. I'd love to see him play but I don't think it's going to happen 'cos he's made a career outside cricket and is now married. He was also considered to be an abrasive sort of team mate. He may have a crack again but I doubt it. Having said that, he's about the right age to really smash a lineup with his experience. Only a couple of weeks ago he took six wickets for bugger all in State cricket.
Cricket_god
Associate Cricketer
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2005
- Location
- heaven
davefryer said:
Macgill is not a great bowler he might become a great bowler but his control
is no where compared with kumble or warne.He may turn it big but he dishes 2 loose deliveries each over .in odis he would be hammered.
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