Darrell Hair reinstated as Test Match Umpire

[manee]

It's just an analogy. And I wouldn't call someone who played 1-2 decades ago for the same country a lead. Also, the ball isn't the lead in this situation, it is the fact that Imran, Waqar and Wasim used to play for Pakistan. Unless your theory is that all Pakistani fast bowlers are ball tamperers, in which case a tampered ball is indeed a lead; but I am sure that is not your theory.

Didn't really understand that, but I am saying that umpires should be more vigalant with a slightly dubiously treated ball with the case of reverse swing from Pakistan bowlers, especially to the massive extent as in the match (IIRC), more seriously than perhaps conventional swing from an English bowler. The problem lies in the five penalty runs which practically implies definate guilt rather than a ball in bad conditions.

 

[FreddieFan]

I, for one, am very glad to see Hair back. An umpire has to be, first and foremost, a good decision maker. Obviously, diplomatic skills are nice, but not essential. The best umpires (Bird especially) have both, but choosing one or the other, decisions come first.

I think Hair got a lot of unfair stick at the Oval. For a start, as umpire, he followed the rules, was supported at the time by Doctrove, and so hasn't done anything wrong. If the rules are wrong, that's a different matter, you can only follow the ones in place at the time.

When he asked for quite a substantial sum of money, I don't think that was unreasonable at all. All he asked for was the rest of his contract to be paid and he'd go quietly, giving the ICC an option. If they didn't want to, fair enough, he'd sit there getting paid as before whether the ICC were asking him to umpire or not. It's easy to see why the ICC would want to avoid such a situation and I think Hair was doing them a favour by offering to resign now - but who on earth would possibly do so in a way that hits themselves in the pocket?

The only thing I disagree about his reinstatement is the fact he will not be umpiring Pakistan. IMO, if the ICC are happy that he's good enough to be on the elite panel, you should be able to umpire any international in the world. Keeping him away from pakistan set's a dangerous precident, and with the power of the Asian bloc I wouldn't be at all surprised if a few teams get to pick and choose their umpires in a few years, a situation that must be avoided at all costs.

 

[vaibhav mehta]

It's just an analogy. And I wouldn't call someone who played 1-2 decades ago for the same country a lead. Also, the ball isn't the lead in this situation, it is the fact that Imran, Waqar and Wasim used to play for Pakistan. Unless your theory is that all Pakistani fast bowlers are ball tamperers, in which case a tampered ball is indeed a lead; but I am sure that is not your theory.


They are essentially selectively discriminating against people with browner skin and facial hair. And the whole point is that the fact that they already have profile set up for their ideal criminal. It is strange to see that all the "randomized secondary check" candidates in the US seem to be non-Caucasian people.

Let me clarify what I see your argument as:

1. Umpire sees tampered ball.
2. Umpire checks nationality of bowling team and finds them to be Pakistani.
3. Umpire makes connection with Waqar/Wasim/Imran.
4. Umpire calls ball tampering on the fielding team.

Now, I'm not suggesting that this is what Hair did, but that is what I read from your argument that Pakistani bowlers should be treated with more suspicion.

...
I think you are after me Sir...You Quote my message...But When I have said that????
Check it out again Sohum..

Anyway whoever you have answered but Nice post..
Nobody knows Discrimination word more than me..A Black guy living in country like Russia for 8 years..He Must have done Phd in Discrimination..

 

[sohail]

as long as he stays away from pakistan matches i couldnt care less what he does!!

 

[usy]

I don't really have strong views either way on this topic but...

Hair had a right to call Pakistan up for ball tampering. If he feels that the ball is unfit and has been tampered with, then it is his decision to change it. I think the problem arose at the five penalty runs, because at that point, a simply ball change becomes an accusation of cheating. Perhaps this area of the rules needs to be looked into. Pakistan had no right to stand in protest, since the rule of the umpires should not be disputed by the players. The umpires should have the ultimate power and the players do not have a right on the field to challenge it. If an umpire does something which is clearly out of order, then they will be pulled up for it by the Match Referee or the ICC, the players do not need to act to show their dismay - that is what media conferences are for.

Assuming he was wrong, what difference does it have to a bad LBW decision? It is not as if Pakistan have an innocent history in terms of ball tampering. I have seen footage of both Waqar and Wasim scratching the ball with their nails and Imran Khan has admitted to the act in one of his books. This is not senseless descrimination, this is sensible descrimination. If a team has players who has ball tampered over the past two decades, it is not unreasonable to pay extra attention in case they do in a third.

I think that in televised games, they should have a camera which follows the ball at all times; whether they implant a tiny tracking chip in the centre of the ball or someone has an extremely boring job is irrelevant; it is a necessity these days as the rules stand.

Hair should not have been banned, but realistically speaking, there is no way that he can fully command respect from Pakistan nor can he umpire a game without being under scrutiny and almost stealing the limelight from the players. An umpire needs to be nondescript and this is no longer possible with Hair. I don't think that he should have been reinstated so quickly, perhaps he should have umpired more low profile matches first.

just because you're Indian.. HAHA you said the same to me on Aussie/India case. Bling Bling!
kidding anyways, at the end he called us "cheats" so we hate him for that. But I are forgiving person..... :cool:

 

[sohum]

Didn't really understand that, but I am saying that umpires should be more vigalant with a slightly dubiously treated ball with the case of reverse swing from Pakistan bowlers, especially to the massive extent as in the match (IIRC), more seriously than perhaps conventional swing from an English bowler. The problem lies in the five penalty runs which practically implies definate guilt rather than a ball in bad conditions.

That is what I don't agree with. You are essentially introducing prejudice in your judgment. As I have said over and over again, the incidents of Pakistan's ball tampering have happened so long ago that they bear almost no relevance to such a situation happening today. Yet, because of their history they should be treated with suspicion? I'm sorry, but I disagree. I don't think at all that cases involving Pakistan should be treated differently if you are to be fair.

...
I think you are after me Sir...You Quote my message...But When I have said that????
Check it out again Sohum..

Hehehe, my bad. I had you on my clipboard.

 

[manee]

That is what I don't agree with. You are essentially introducing prejudice in your judgment. As I have said over and over again, the incidents of Pakistan's ball tampering have happened so long ago that they bear almost no relevance to such a situation happening today. Yet, because of their history they should be treated with suspicion? I'm sorry, but I disagree. I don't think at all that cases involving Pakistan should be treated differently if you are to be fair.

You are taking the sentiment and ignoring the idea that perhaps umpires should look at Pakistani reverse swinging balls, as in the match, with some scrutiny, when they check the ball at the end of every over.

just because you're Indian.. HAHA you said the same to me on Aussie/India case. Bling Bling!

:

 

[Cricketdude]

You are taking the sentiment and ignoring the idea that perhaps umpires should look at Pakistani reverse swinging balls, as in the match, with some scrutiny, when they check the ball at the end of every over.



:

You seem like your saying that if the balls reverse swinging they've done something with the ball.

Why should umpires take a look at it as it will leak anyway in the media.

 

[manee]

You seem like your saying that if the balls reverse swinging they've done something with the ball.

Why should umpires take a look at it as it will leak anyway in the media.

An umpire checks the ball after every over. Obviously, the umpires do not pay particularly close attention when they do this but the mitigating factors of what the ball is doing and possibly who is doing it should be taken into account to decide how much scrutiny there should be over a ball.

 

[Cricketdude]

An umpire checks the ball after every over. Obviously, the umpires do not pay particularly close attention when they do this but the mitigating factors of what the ball is doing and possibly who is doing it should be taken into account to decide how much scrutiny there should be over a ball.

What happens if a lollie or something was on the ground because it got throwed there and the ball hit it and then the ball was swinging like a frizby?

 

[manee]

What happens if a lollie or something was on the ground because it got throwed there and the ball hit it and then the ball was swinging like a frizby?

I think you are underestimating how unlikely that is but the ball would be replaced with a ball of similar age with no penalty runs to either team. I think that umpires should replace dubious balls more often though and eliminate the penalty runs rubbish all together.

 

[Cricketdude]

I think you are underestimating how unlikely that is but the ball would be replaced with a ball of similar age with no penalty runs to either team. I think that umpires should replace dubious balls more often though and eliminate the penalty runs rubbish all together.

Yes but if they tried to tamper it and get away with it or not away with it, it still means he tampered it and should be banned for as serious it was.

What if the umpires didnt notice at the time?

 

[manee]

Yes but if they tried to tamper it and get away with it or not away with it, it still means he tampered it and should be banned for as serious it was.

What if the umpires didnt notice at the time?

Deal with it off the field if there is suspicion of tampering.

Allow me to reiterate my 2006 stance that he had no right to assume ball tampering in the situation, given the exact circumstances. Upon reviewing the situation, it would seem that he did not see any sort of ball tampering.

 

[sohum]

You are taking the sentiment and ignoring the idea that perhaps umpires should look at Pakistani reverse swinging balls, as in the match, with some scrutiny, when they check the ball at the end of every over.

I understand your point, but I disagree with it. I don't agree that umpires should more thoroughly check the ball when Pakistan is bowling and it is reverse-swinging. That basically seems unfair and shows that the umpire has a pre-conceived prejudice.

 

[vaibhav mehta]

Well It has been case of Pre-conceived prejudice because We have not any proof catch by camera that Ball Tempering really happened..
Secondly You can't hide the ball from camera in nower days..They will catch you in your pocket even..So Basically no body have visualized proof that Ball tempering was happened..
If Swinging ball was the case then all the cricket world have forgot that Reverse Swing was invented by Pakistani...
On other hand,
Well I think ICC appointing these officials..After fair amount of Examinations...So all these Errors are indirectly by them...If they have appointed someone to Judge then they should not thrown him away for one Mistake...And Suppose if they have done then Gosh why they have brought them Back???/
Its laughing thing...Like Admin have made someone Mod here then due to some Errors they Banned him....After some amount of time they realized that they did wrong so they have brought back again as Mod.....
Is this really make any sense??/