England announce squads for ODI's and Champions Trophy

[aussie1st]

Sorry meant to say 'early'. We still haven't announced our one yet and I don't think any other side has either.

 

[Howsie]

Yes he did look like a flat out hack in the T20, but now he is starting to play decent strokes, he's never gonna be an incredibly classy batsmen to watch like Tendulkar or Lara but he's gonna hit it hard and if it goes, it's gonna go a distance.

I also think your being a little harsh on your views on English ODI cricket, as Mercules said, after Pietersen, Shah has been our best ODI batsmen, Bopara is doing alright for us, would much rather have Strauss skippering than Colly. Rashid doesn't even playing ODI cricket? Morgan has only played a few games, and actually Denly's been performing for a while now.

I know Wright's never going to look pretty when scoring runs but I just doubt his abilty to actually score big runs in international cricket. And to call him a match winner with the ball is quite amusing tbh.

I don't think I'm being that harsh either TBF, is their anyone in the England team that would strike fair to the opposing team. Flintoff's the only world class player in my books. England doesn't have a batsmen that can take the game away from the oppsoing team (In international cricket anyway).

 

[Ollie_H]

I know Wright's never going to look pretty when scoring runs but I just doubt his abilty to actually score big runs in international cricket. And to call him a match winner with the ball is quite amusing tbh.

I don't think I'm being that harsh either TBF, is their anyone in the England team that would strike fair to the opposing team. Flintoff's the only world class player in my books. England doesn't have a batsmen that can take the game away from the oppsoing team (In international cricket anyway).

Well, Sureshot is likely to be slightly biased as he works for Sussex, so I think we could slightly let him off there , I'm sure you think things that we find amusing. Not having many world class players is something we have to live with being English. I think your being harsh on Jimmy, and his stats are harsh on him and as us generally being English we put him in the side too early, then cooley tried to tinker with action and completely screwed him up, only now are we anywhere near the finished article.

 

[King Pietersen]

Wow, deluded much? You bemoan England's selectors for more poor selections, then mention David Masters! You also include Graham Napier in the T20s, despite him having a woeful season and a player who has never had the quality to be an England player.

I seriously don't see why David Masters is such a bad shout. He's had an excellent season in OD cricket, has an incredible economy rate and is incredibly consistent. McGrath still managed to succeed in ODi's into his 30's, bowling at a pace similar to Masters, and that's exactly the kind of bowler Masters is. Not as skilled as McGrath obviously, but he could definitely do a job for England.

As for Napier, where's your proof that he's not got the quality to be an England player? He's not been given a chance to prove himself. He's never been consistent with the bat, but I didn't pick him for his batting, he'd be in as a bowling all-rounder capable of giving it a whack down the order. His bowling is miles better than Luke Wright's and he'd be far more of a match winner with the ball than Wright. His bowling record this season is far from woeful, which people seem to forget is comfortably his strong point, and would certainly stand up on the International stage I believe.

Wright is also far more than a hack and his batting has improved immensely this season. Averaging 40 odd in the championship, and with several match winning performances with both bat and ball in all forms. If we're going on players who hae good domestic form, Wright has to play. He's a match winner with both the bat and the ball.

He has improved, but to say he's a match winner with bat and ball at international level is a pretty silly statement to make. He might be able to do it at County level, but what's he done for England to prove he can do it? A couple of overs at the end of an innings, most notably at Napier, and a few slogged 50's. He's certainly not proven himself to be a match winner at the highest level.

Ed Joyce proved last night why I want him in the side. Was a fantastic innings, he's in incredible form in One Day cricket this season. Really should have been called up ahead of Denly and Bresnan tbh. I'd much rather have seen Trott and Joyce in this squad.

 

[Howsie]

Well, Sureshot is likely to be slightly biased as he works for Sussex, so I think we could slightly let him off there , I'm sure you think things that we find amusing. Not having many world class players is something we have to live with being English. I think your being harsh on Jimmy, and his stats are harsh on him and as us generally being English we put him in the side too early, then cooley tried to tinker with action and completely screwed him up, only now are we anywhere near the finished article.

He did average 74 with the ball. I'll never rate him as a good one day bowler because of the fact he gets hit around so much, he has way too many bad days.

1.Strauss
2.Bopara
3.Pietersen
4.Shah
5.Collingwood
6.Prior
7.Flintoff
8.Broad
9.Swann
10.Anderson
11.Sidebottom?

That's England's full strength team right, Trott hasn't played before so I haven't included him.

Strauss and Bopara are both pretty iffy, Pietersen may be close to the most overated one day batsmen in the world. Last two years he's averaged 38 with a SR of 80, hardly world class. Shah's decent but he hasn't really taken a team apart before. Collingwood is pretty meh these days, Prior hasn't done anything of note for England in one day cricket. Broad, yes he may have the most wickets over the last two years but do you think teams actually fear him when they play England? Swann's a good spinner, Anderson is Anderson And I'm not quite sure who you're other seamer is but Sidebottom is pretty good.

It's just not that much of a good team, England should just try and stick with the same team for a while.

 

[King Pietersen]

England don't actually know what their full strength ODi team is though, that's the problem. We're stuck with Prior in the side, but don't know where to bat him when Pietersen's in the side. He's not good enough to open but he's not an ODi number 7, and our middle order is solid so it's hard to find a place for him there, when Pietersen's playing. Anderson's not a great One Day bowler, but he'll continue to get picked on Test form.

In 12-18 months, I see us going into ODi's with a side something like (or I hope we are anyway):

1. Ravi Bopara
2. Craig Kieswetter +
3. Jonathan Trott
4. Kevin Pietersen * (hopefully OD/T20 captain)
5. Owais Shah
6. Samit Patel
7. Andrew Flintoff
8. Stuart Broad
9. Graeme Swann
10. Ryan Sidebottom
11. Jimmy Anderson

Also, I love the way you just dismiss Broad as 'teams don't fear him'. They may not fear him in Test cricket, but international players know how good an ODI bowler Stuart Broad is, and although he's not our best OD bowler, that's still firmly Flintoff, he's definitely our 2nd best ODi bowler, and one of the best ODi openers in world cricket as far as I'm concerned, and the stats back me up. So I'm sure people fear him far more than you think they do.

As individual players they may not leap out at you, but I think we should be doing a hell of alot better in ODi's. We've got a good bowling attack, with good death bowlers and a batting line-up, that when Pietersen is included does look strong. If we had a good OD captain (Pietersen) I think we'd go far. We have shown glimpses of ODi form, with a superb series thrashing of South Africa, a win in Australia, a home series win against India, but then we're far too inconsistent. To follow that superb win against South Africa with the god awful series against India just showed how our ODi side need to improve. We can go from looking the business 1 series, to being whipping boys the next, and that needs to change.

 

[Ollie_H]

KP I think I just jizzed a little over that side! As much as I might hate Broad in test match cricket I do agree I think he is a fantastic ODI bowler. I really would like KP to be our ODI/T20 captain like you said, I hope strauss proves us all wrong in the ODI said but the key word for the English side is hope.

 

[Sureshot]

In hindsight I was probably a bit biased with Wright. Doesn't change the fact I think he can be a match winner and is in excellent form this season. If he keeps having seasons like this he'll be in the Test team soon enough as well. I really can't express how well he has done, particularly in FC cricket.

 

[Howsie]

Stuart Broad over the last two years:

66 wickets at 25.39

That's good, I'm not saying he's a bad one day bowler. But I very much doubt teams would look to play him out because they "fear" him. His economy rate over the last two years is a rather high 5.06. So that means on average he's getting 2/3 wickets for 50 of his ten overs.

Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Johnson, Mills, and Kulasekara all have very similar stats. Infact their bowling averages are actually far lower. Mill's and Johnson's are two lower, and Kulasekara's is four lower. Do you think teams fear the likes of Mills and Kulasekara, I doubt it. I don't see what's wrong with saying teams wouldn't fear Broad before a game.

 

[Owzat]

I agree that we shouldn't be constantly looking towards the future, I didn't want Ramprakash in the side because I didn't think he was the right man. But that's a different matter..

Ramprakash was short term and not even a guaranteed solution, ideally the players will have enough experience in county cricket, have put in consistent performances over at least two seasons but still be relatively young. If they are a batting or bowling phenomenon then they should be in their county and scoring runs or taking wickets earlier than most.

I doubt England would win the ODI series or T20 based on who hasn't been picked, we've not been in major force in limited overs for many years, not since 1992. Selection policies are very hit and miss, picking mostly England Test players who don't even participate much in the domestic T20. I mean what was the Stanford farce selection policy about?

 

[adyhorn]

Am I the only one who thinks Mascarenhas has been harshly treated? I would put him in for Rashid and Dan, if you're going to pick Foster I think that Ben Scott should be given a game. He's the same level of keeper, can stand up to quicks, and is a similar style batsman.

 

[King Pietersen]

I've seen Ben Scott, and he's not as good a keeper as Foster. He's solid, but he's no James Foster. Prior should have the gloves in ODi's till Kieswetter's qualified, and Foster should have them in T20's till Kieswetter's qualified. I really don't think Ben Scott is anywhere near contention, certainly wouldn't be one of the guys I'd have my eye on. I'd be thinking Prior, Foster, Kieswetter, Davies, Ambrose and even Chris Read ahead of Scott.

 

[Sureshot]

Scott is a decent keeper. Shame he doesn't know which end of the bat to use (rather exaggerated, but making my point).

 

[Themer]

I'm actually quite pleased with our ODI selection for these ODI's vs Australia and Champions Trophy. From a long term view the team is going in the right direction and there are some decent talents coming through, good to see Denly in there and Luke Wright who's having a very good season. Still a bit sad though that Samit Patel's still being left out he's got the talent and for me could become a very solid middle order batsmen who is a decent bowler. Better than Collingwood in my opinion currently.

 

[adyhorn]

I've seen Ben Scott, and he's not as good a keeper as Foster. He's solid, but he's no James Foster. Prior should have the gloves in ODi's till Kieswetter's qualified, and Foster should have them in T20's till Kieswetter's qualified. I really don't think Ben Scott is anywhere near contention, certainly wouldn't be one of the guys I'd have my eye on. I'd be thinking Prior, Foster, Kieswetter, Davies, Ambrose and even Chris Read ahead of Scott.

Read? Come on, he's much better than Read. And I've probably not seen as of Foster as you, but I'd say they are about the same in terms of keeping and Foster is the better batsman. And I agree about Kieswetter, he will be epic.

Scott is a decent keeper. Shame he doesn't know which end of the bat to use (rather exaggerated, but making my point).

Agreed. If Foster and Scott could make more runs they would be the two at the top of the pecking order.