England in India

[Stephen Bailey]

and I dont want stevie or someone to remind me that this is the "England in India" thread.

Yep, I'm here and waiting to pounce!

Just a question - is the Super Sub rule going to be used for this series? The ICC have scrapped it. Hope its scrapped for this series!

I certainly hope so. I would imagine that is the case too.

 

[JamesyJames3]

Yep, I'm here and waiting to pounce!



I certainly hope so. I would imagine that is the case too.

You hope it is going to be used? Are you insane? (stupid question )

I hope the power plays one is got rid of too. I prefered the 15 over straight restrictions.

 

[pal]

The England test team is clearly better than the Indian test team.

 

[Stephen Bailey]

You hope it is going to be used? Are you insane? (stupid question )

I hope the power plays one is got rid of too. I prefered the 15 over straight restrictions.

Read the bit I quoted from Sai, I'm in agreement with him. I hope it's gone!

 

[JamesyJames3]

Read the bit I quoted from Sai, I'm in agreement with him. I hope it's gone!

I did, and he asked the question is it to be used, and you said : I hope so!! Foo'!

The England test team is clearly better than the Indian test team.

Thats very honest of you pal. I think England have the most balanced test side in the world, and now probably have the best squad of players to create that balance. Having players like Cook, Shah and even Udal in backup isnt bad!

 

[MohdIrshaad]

I think Sachin's an ageing lion who should leave the stage and not give hyenas like "Chucker Akhtar" the last laugh.

Hmm.. Its guys like Udal, Hoggard and Razzak that are having the last laugh!

 

[SaiSrini]

The England test team is clearly better than the Indian test team.

Considering that England lost their top players like Tresco, Vaughnie, Jones and Harmy (final test), they could still level the series with India 1-1 and they had the majority of the wood over India at Nagpur. That clearly states that the English are a much better team than India, on form right now!

Geoffrey Boycott has in a recent article said "If this England-B side can bring about this sort of capitulation to the Indians in their own backyard, its impossible to imagine what the Indians are going to do when they tour England in 2007". He is right! This team needs a lot of work to do before they can challenge the top 3 spots in test cricket!

Post Series Report - INDIA

1. Rahul Dravid - 8/10

Led the team really well in this test series. Was really magnificent with the bat and was definitely the thorn in the England side, as agreed by lot of people including the Mumbai victorious captain Flintoff. He loses some points just because of his atrocious decision to bowl first at Mumbai which almost has had a huge bearing in the result of this test series! Seems to be developing well as a captain!

2. Wasim Jaffer - 7.5/10

Started off with a big bang, scoring 81 and his first maiden hundred in the Nagpur test. Looks very immaculate for an opener and looks to be the ideal solution for India's opening woes. But as the series went on, he sort of jaded away getting out to the incoming ball. Looks very suspect in his off side play and might struggle abroad if he does not look after his technique against the moving ball.

3. Virender Sehwag - 3/10

What a poor series this guy has had??? Awful series with the bat! Apart from that 76* which took India to victory at Mohali, he has had a horrendous series. His physical fitness needs a serious introspection. He seems to be down with either illness or bad back these days. Keeps bloating by the day and if he doesnt give importance to physical fitness, wonder how long he is going to remain with this Indian squad? Doesnt have the technique for an opener and clings on to the team just because he has had success as an opener before and because he is expected to come up with a rare good knock (wonder when that knock comes?). Has shown a weakness to the world that he gets ugly when playing the short rising ball!

4. Sachin Tendulkar - 3/10

Another reason why the Indian top order failed to make any impression in this series. Seems to be troubled mentally by his shoulder injury for which he is now out for 2 months. Technically he is a great player and I still feel if he comes back fully fit from injuries, he is still a player to watch out for. Have a feeling he will be back to top form by the end of this year and in time for the World Cup. Doesnt deserve the harsh treatment meted out to him by the unruly fans at the Wankhede.

5. Yuvraj Singh - 3/10

After the great series against Pakistan where he scored in the bucketfuls in both tests and ODI's, had a poor test series with the bat. But more importantly, had a very very poor series in the field. Was a major reason why India found it really tough to bowl England out. He is not the ideal fielder for close in catching and since India had no other options, he was forced into it and he clearly showed that it was a job that he didnt like at all. Dropped catches when he is not known to do that!

6. MS Dhoni - 4.5/10

Had a better series than the above three but played a nonsense shot in the final innings of the Mumbai test when still some hopes of a fightback from India through Yuvraj and himself remained. His keeping has been brilliant only in patches. He still has problems keeping upto the spinners Kumble and Harbhajan Singh. His missed stumping off Flintoff probably added salt to India's wounds in the crushing defeat. Played a rare sensible knock of 64 in the first innings when needed. Technically he is as suspect as Virender Sehwag is and is vulnerable to the rising ball.

7. Irfan Pathan - 4.1/10

Poor poor series with the ball. Turning more into a full fledged batsman who can bowl a bit! His pace in bowling has drastically reduced over the past year and is toothless when he gets no aid from the wicket. Doesnt seem to care about the criticisms that comes his way and shows unneeded arrogance. Did well with the bat and bailed India out with his 52 at Mohali. Played another decent innings of 26 at Mumbai.

8. Anil Kumble - 9/10

Awesome fellow! Feels so bad that he is again kept out of the ODI squad. Played his heart out and to me, he is the deserving Man of the series (Even though Flintoff also deserves it!). After a not so big Nagpur test, hit his straps with a special 500 wickets (the first by an Indian!) and then it was no looking back. His bowling was as usual top notch but it was his plucky batting which was an unusual revelation. It tells a lot that the Indians had so much faith in sending him as nightwatchman at Mumbai. A great player indeed!

9. Harbhajan Singh - 5/10

Had a very poor first two test matches at Nagpur and Mohali. Didnt do anything worthy with the ball there in those tests. Played a decent knock of 36 to help India take a lead at Mohali. But he seemed to have hit his straps at Mumbai with an inspired spell of bowling. Picked up 5 wickets in Mumbai and took a sensational one handed catch to dismiss Collingwood that must have spurred him no end. Deserves another chance and hopefully can improve on his form!

10. S. Sreesanth - 8.5/10

A very good future fast bowling prospect for India! Bowls at a very lively pace in the mid and late 130's and swings the ball well. Had a great debut when he picked up 4 wickets in the Nagpur test where the wicket was very flat. Missed the Mohali test due to sickness but came back really well at Mumbai. Forms a very good combination with Munaf Patel and definitely can serve India really well in future. Needs to keep improving his bowling and must give prime importance to his pace (enough has happened in the past to India's bowlers who have this knack of losing pace!).

11. Munaf Patel - 9/10

Deserves a rating equal to Kumble! He should be India's biggest find in the fast bowling department in the recent times. Looks to be a lethal fast bowling prospect for India! Reverse swings the ball very well at a good lively pace and is now the fastest of the lot among the current Indian international bowlers. His yorkers are a treat to watch (Ask Mr. Hoggard). May be can avoid getting entangled in a war of words with the batsmen. Should avoid getting over excited (we know what happened to Zaheer Khan and the '03 world cup final). A very good prospect again for India!

12. Piyush Chawla - 1/10

Had a not so great test debut. Picked up the important wicket of Flintoff at Mohali. Didnt bat much. But its just his first test. With more opportunities, he is bound to flourish!

13. Mohammed Kaif - 7/10

Played a gritty innings of 91 at Nagpur which saved India the blushes. Was unfortunate not to get a chance to play again because of the comeback of Yuvraj Singh. But he needs more chances to play. He has a compact technique can is suited for this level of the game!

14. VVS Laxman - 1/10

Played a maximum of only 2 balls in this whole series. Was out first ball duck in the first innings of the Nagpur test and played a solitary ball in the second innings before the test was drawn at Nagpur. Was dropped to accomodate a fifth bowler in the next two test matches. Doesnt seem to be in favor of the team management and selectors and he is always the sacrificial lamb.

 

[varunvgiri]

Great win for England. I always thought India would struggle against good pace on a bowler friendly pitch, but I never thought they'd struggle so bad.

BTW, could somebody tell me what I said wrong in this post:

http://www.planetcricket.org/forums/showpost.php?p=328657&postcount=940

I got my first rep and it was negative

India didnt particularly struggle against pace. They struggled against Udal, dint they.

The England test team is clearly better than the Indian test team.

I wouldnt say they are clearly better. But they are defenitely better in present form.






Well the important lessons that India should learn from this series...

1) The 5 bowler experiment has failed. The Indian batting line up is too inexperienced and too out of form to play 5 bowlers. India are better off playing 6 batsmen.

2) India should continue with V.V.S Laxman as we need his experience in the middle order. Besides he is a very safe fielder in the slips and close in. Having good fielders in catching positions is very important in test cricket.


3) Irfan Pathan is fast turning into a batsman who can bowl a bit. His bowling is going down though his batting is improving. His bowling is pretty ineffective once the ball gets old. He has to work and improve his pace a bit to trouble quality batsmen.


4) I believe Rahul Dravid was over confident heading into this test. His act of fielding first proves that. But this style is conflicting with his ODI captaincy, where he refuses to bat first even after winning the series, coz our strength is chasing.

 

[s2sschan]

3. Virender Sehwag - 3/10

What a poor series this guy has had??? Awful series with the bat! Apart from that 76* which took India to victory at Mohali, he has had a horrendous series. His physical fitness needs a serious introspection. He seems to be down with either illness or bad back these days. Keeps bloating by the day and if he doesnt give importance to physical fitness, wonder how long he is going to remain with this Indian squad? Doesnt have the technique for an opener and clings on to the team just because he has had success as an opener before and because he is expected to come up with a rare good knock (wonder when that knock comes?). Has shown a weakness to the world that he gets ugly when playing the short rising ball!

If he fails in the Tests as an Opener in the West Indies, he should be confined to the ODI team.

Should be given an ultimatum.

 

[SaiSrini]

The Indian team needs some serious re-thinking to do in the test matches. These two series against Pakistan and England have really embarassed us to the hilt. Two big humiliating defeats, that too one at our own backyard doesnt augur well for the future of our cricket.

Irfan needs to change. He has to definitely change. His all round skills are of no use. India always go with 4 bowlers and now after this defeat, they wont dare experiment. Then why have an all rounder when he cant give us the option of a fifth bowler? 6 batsmen+Dhoni+4 bowlers is enough. So Pathan will not be needed if he doesnt improve his pace.

If he fails in the Tests as an Opener in the West Indies, he should be confined to the ODI team.

Should be given an ultimatum.

Of course. India needs two specialist openers. Sehwag is never a specialist opener and his technique wont help him in the long run. Some say he has succeeded overseas opening for India. But have you looked in which conditions did he succeed opening for India? Most of them were flat good batting pitches where he succeeded as an opener.

West Indies will prove a good test with the seaming pitches. If he fails, he has to be dropped from the test matches!

 

[Bala]

Sai, I would agree completely to your assessment. I do have a couple of points

Jaffer's habit of planting his front foot across even as the ball is kicking up after pitching has led to his downfall. This was brutally exploited by Hoggard during India's last visit to England. He also needs to work on his cover drive as he has been dismissed twice in the short cover. If Jaffer's technique is still not upto the mark and with Sehwag's gradual decline in form (another case of failures due to his technique or the lack of it), India might suddenly be scrambling to find two new openers.

Gambhir needs to show his potential in this coming ODI series. If not, then we are in for big time trouble and I can see Laxman stepping upto open in tests just to retain his place. No, don't want that to happen.

Other openers who might have their names discussed in the near future: Dheeraj Jadhav, Shikhar Dhawan, Vinayak Mane (long shot!), Vidyut SIvaramakrishnan, Robin Uthappa. Notable thing is all of these players are attacking batsmen by nature and need a grafter like Akash Chopra, Shiv Das to complement them. If one of these are selected and paired up with Gambhir/ Sehwag/ Jaffer - then we can see some quick wickets falling.

Staying with the topic of attacking batsmen, India certainly lacked the services of grafters like Laxman and Kaif as except Dravid all the other 5 are attacking by nature.

So it is high time we look into this and develop of good bench strength of players who can graft. They are of a rare breed.

 

[angryangy]

Interesting what you say about the close in fielding. I think there's more and more a case for sides to take a "specialist fielder" into their team, a batsman who edges ahead of his rivals because he can take stunning catches where ever the captain wants to put him.

I don't know about Boyc's B-side call (of course, you have to take his comments with a grain of salt). As sheer numbers it looks devastating, but I think they could conceivably have done no better with the first string side. Three players bloat the injury list.

First up, cross off The King of Spain. Infinitely replaceable, as Udal would seem to prove.

Secondly, I think they gained by losing Steve Harmison. Rarely a star on foreign soil, he hasn't been going particularly well of late and as it happens, his replacement played a stellar match.

This is probably my biggest call, but the third is Vaughan. He's average 37 from his past 24 matches. You may as well replace him, because any decent first class batsman is just as likely to do that well.

 

[sohum]

Yes, I think a sort of impatience has come into the Indian batting, perhaps as a result of too much ODI cricket. As the saying goes (and if it doesn't, it better, now), you need to know how to save test matches before you can win them. It's not a direct step from losing to winning.

We have openers a-plenty in our domestic ranks. But I do not think regular rotation is a good idea. The thing is that all our openers have success and then fail. So what do we do--just draft a new guy in every time? Talent has to be allowed a chance to flourish. Chopping and changing doesn't work too well. Chopra and Sehwag had one of the best opening partnerships--even if Chopra was in the 30s when Sehwag brought up his 100. Chopra was thrown out after one test match where he failed in both innings, just because he had not got a big score to his name.

It seems India are finding it hard, in batting, to find a balance between two extremes. Either we are too attacking, or we are too defensive. Strike rotation is the most important thing. We are depending too heavily on one guy performing, while the others fail around him. That's why the Aussie team is such a powerhouse. In any given match, at least 3-4 of their top order batsmen get a decent score.

Now, team composition. On the back of this test match, everyone will obviously say that we need another batsman. I think we should try out the 5-1-5 combination anyhow. Our part-time bowlers have not bowled in a while. And now, they are injured (Sachin and Sehwag). Final team composition should probably be left to the pitch.

On to the ODI series. Who will open? Both our original openers are out. I'm afraid that we will try and experiment and fail. However, ODI's are a whole different cup of tea. Additionally, we only have the part-time spin of Yuvraj Singh. It should be interesting...

First up, cross off The King of Spain. Infinitely replaceable, as Udal would seem to prove.

Secondly, I think they gained by losing Steve Harmison. Rarely a star on foreign soil, he hasn't been going particularly well of late and as it happens, his replacement played a stellar match.

This is probably my biggest call, but the third is Vaughan. He's average 37 from his past 24 matches. You may as well replace him, because any decent first class batsman is just as likely to do that well.

I agree with your picks. But there is one Simon Jones that probably could have made the difference in Nagpur or Mohali. And players like Vaughan and Trescothick could theoretically play the innings of the series, since they have done so in the past.

I had raised a question about bench-strength and how good you were in the world. England have shown that their bench strength is up to task, proving some of their own supporters [on this forum] wrong, and that they do in fact deserve #2, as of this moment in time.

 

[prarara]

shortened version of what most people are saying here:
India should not experiment too much on its Test formula, and should only do this in ODI Cricket.

 

[Bala]

shortened version of what most people are saying here:
India should not experiment too much on its Test formula, and should only do this in ODI Cricket.

Not exactly. What people are trying to say is to strike the right formula in tests, which is not there till now.