Wouldn't a leg spinner be more expensive in English conditions than an experienced seamer? Would any of those players you mentioned have taken so many wickets at such a young age?
England in West Indies
- Thread starter Skater
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Wouldn't a leg spinner be more expensive in English conditions than an experienced seamer? Would any of those players you mentioned have taken so many wickets at such a young age?
King Pietersen
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That's not the point. Yeh sure he's taken quite a few wickets, well done to him, but he's only done it in 1 season. My point is, I'm sick of seeing players rushed into the England side after 1 good season. It just hampers them in the long run. Rashid needs time in County Cricket to see if he is more than a 1 season wonder, because I wasn't particularly impressed by what I saw of him. He was ok, didn't look particularly special, definitely needs time in County Cricket before coming into the England side, especially in ODi cricket. He's only got 16 List A wickets ffs.
Anderson's a legend. Gayle gone as well.
Anderson's a legend. Gayle gone as well.
Dr. Pepper
Chairman of Selectors
n00bs are being owned by Anderson 
. Huge wicket!
Well you also have to take into account the fact that he plays at Headingly and it has literally nothing for spinners, yet he still managed to get that much out of it. 65 wickets in a season and half of the matches he played at was on a pitch which had nothing for him.
Anderson rules more than Man D rules!
. Huge wicket! Well you also have to take into account the fact that he plays at Headingly and it has literally nothing for spinners, yet he still managed to get that much out of it. 65 wickets in a season and half of the matches he played at was on a pitch which had nothing for him.
Anderson rules more than Man D rules!
You are fed up of seeing players rushed into the England squad? I wish we saw more of those, instead we see mediocre has been's promoted. I don't remember too many hot prospects being rushed into the England team.
King Pietersen
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I'm not contesting the fact that he bowled well. He had a good season, my point is, he's not done enough to get into the England team. As I said, I'm sick of seeing players rushed into the England side after 1 good season, they never perform as well as the selectors hope. Look at Geraint Jones, Saj Mahmood, Darren Pattinson, Stuart Broad, Amjad Khan, none of them performed early or consistently. Panesar was also rushed into the ODi side and look how he turned out. Rashid needs at least 2 more seasons in FC cricket before he gets in the England side, if he's going to make the most of his talent anyway.
How many of those 'rushed' in players had a season as good as Rashid, at such a young age? Broad had an excellent 20-20 record, and despite a slow start in the tests, has gone on to become a vital part of the team. No one is saying Rashid should get a test spot, Swann is deserving of that currently. But he needs to be given a chance. Pattinson and Khan are old hat.
King Pietersen
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Khan averaged 20 in FC cricket last season, and Pattinson took 49 wickets at 25. Not quite as many wickets as Rashid, but a comfortably better average. Broad's season that led to his selection he took 48 wickets at 31, incredibly similar record to that of Rashid.
Rashid should not be 'given a go' in ODi cricket, as he's not proven himself to be a good OD bowler. He only has 17 wickets at 37 and an economy comfortably over 5. That's just not good enough. He's not got enough experience, and the wickets he has taken have come at a high cost. There is no reason for him to be in the ODi XI. No matter how much potential he's got, and especially considering you've not seen him bowl. I'm not entirely sure what you're basing this argument on.
Rashid should not be 'given a go' in ODi cricket, as he's not proven himself to be a good OD bowler. He only has 17 wickets at 37 and an economy comfortably over 5. That's just not good enough. He's not got enough experience, and the wickets he has taken have come at a high cost. There is no reason for him to be in the ODi XI. No matter how much potential he's got, and especially considering you've not seen him bowl. I'm not entirely sure what you're basing this argument on.
Dr. Pepper
Chairman of Selectors
n00bs are confused - were you referring to me in that last post or Gas? Because I never said he should be selected for the ODI side, I actually said he shouldn't be. If he gets picked it should be for a test match. I don't think he's JUST potential to be honest. He had a great first season, but he'd only played a bit of the season. The 2nd season is where he got used to County Cricket and got into it. The 3rd season (last season) is where he did very well and is used to County cricket. He can only get better from here and he should be exposed to international level sooner rather than later because he's probably England's biggest prospect. I'll end this long paragraph off topic by saying Man D rules.
Pattinson and Khan should never get a chance in an England shirt imo. I would rather focus on building a winning side for the future. Our current side are useless, and have been since the 2005 ashes, bar the odd series here or there. Its time to make a change in thinking, not just in selection but also how we approach the game. This needs to start with chances being given for future big English players, the likes of Rashid, Denly etc.
The best thing England did was getting Cook into the side early, he has an excellent record at his young age, and he got straight into the test side. Sure he will be looking to improve his conversion ratio, and there is no doubt that his ODI work needs massive improvement, but he will only get better and better the more he plays.
Can our results get any worse by blooding these youngsters, and getting them some action? Can it get worse? No, can it get better, well if it can't get worse...
I only suggested the ODI side because frankly with Englands selection policy that is the way things work with the exception of Cook.
King Pietersen
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You should be looking to pick the best side to win games in the present day. What's the point in picking a side for the future if you're still losing in the present day? There is absoloutely zero worth in blooding youth in the Test/ODi arena, that's the point of the England A tours. You want to be picking the best on form players, not ones that might be good in 3 years.
Cook had 2 full seasons in FC cricket before making it into the Test side. He had over 2000 FC runs, with 6 hundreds by the time he got into the England side. He also proved his worth in 2005 with a double hundred in a tour game against an Australian attack which included Kasprowicz, Gillespie, Lee and Warne. Cook's selection was seen as the only option as well, there were no other opening batsmen in form when we got all those injuries, so Cook had to come in. Rashid's been picked in the squad despite there being better options in terms of OD and FC bowlers, and has been picked on 'potential' alone, and not a long period of good FC/List A form. I just don't agree with that. We should be picking the in form guys, not the ones with potential. He's not even performed in the Tour Games either.
King Pietersen added 12 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...
See, this is why we need James Foster in the ODi team batting down the order. Chanderpaul edges behind, Prior drops it. Was in the wrong position, he was standing up as the ball came down and his gloves were in the wrong position. Foster would have snaffled that.
King Pietersen added 58 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...
Sarwan gone. Anderson's been fantastic today. Starting to develop into an incredibly good all-round bowler, and he now has a decent level of consistency. Great for England.
Cook had 2 full seasons in FC cricket before making it into the Test side. He had over 2000 FC runs, with 6 hundreds by the time he got into the England side. He also proved his worth in 2005 with a double hundred in a tour game against an Australian attack which included Kasprowicz, Gillespie, Lee and Warne. Cook's selection was seen as the only option as well, there were no other opening batsmen in form when we got all those injuries, so Cook had to come in. Rashid's been picked in the squad despite there being better options in terms of OD and FC bowlers, and has been picked on 'potential' alone, and not a long period of good FC/List A form. I just don't agree with that. We should be picking the in form guys, not the ones with potential. He's not even performed in the Tour Games either.
King Pietersen added 12 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...
See, this is why we need James Foster in the ODi team batting down the order. Chanderpaul edges behind, Prior drops it. Was in the wrong position, he was standing up as the ball came down and his gloves were in the wrong position. Foster would have snaffled that.
King Pietersen added 58 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...
Sarwan gone. Anderson's been fantastic today. Starting to develop into an incredibly good all-round bowler, and he now has a decent level of consistency. Great for England.
aus_maestro
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Chanderpaul is an amazing batsman. And Broad is crap.
Leicester Fox
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You are so knowledgeable about cricket.
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