England Team Discussion

[blockerdave]

Stokes is a fine batsman. That 100 in Perth was unbelievable. He is a fine bowler too.

 

[_Sam_]

Stokes is a fine batsman. That 100 in Perth was unbelievable. He is a fine bowler too.

Unfortunately at the moment like was said, he doesn't justify himself as one of the top 5 batsmen or one of our top 4 bowlers in my opinion and the all rounders slot is taken by Ali at the moment.

 

[blockerdave]

He would score more runs against Australia than Bell will this summer

 

[bigred]

He would score more runs against Australia than Bell will this summer

If they both batted at 6, where Bell is at his best then Bell would win that contest easy. They aren't in the same league purely as batsman.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

oh, you've seen 6 or 7 odis, that means everything.

Batting at 5 for Yorkshire Ballance averages almost 50 at a strike rate over 90. He is not necessarily in the world class league but his domestic one day record over the last several years suggests there is a far far better one day player - played in the correct role - than he has shown playing 3 for England. And yes, for Yorkshire, he plays the finishing role.

England are not blessed with many guys who are going to score at or better than a run a ball. An in form Ballance, played in the correct position, would make our best one-day team. To suggest he is not a one day player is ignorant, and I don't care who says it, and if they're basing it (as you are) on a few innings played out of form and out of position, batting to stupid orders, they are a cretin to boot.

May be, you're the one being ignorant. I don't deny that you might know more about Ballance than I do, or of his capabilities, but to say you don't care about the likes of Nasser Hussain and Michael Atherton's opinion is a bit high headed.

It just might be that you've overstated the ability of Gary Ballance. May be, you're a Yorkshireman.

 

[SpitfiresKent]

Gary Ballance's stats are slightly exaggerated though from where he played domestically in Zimbabwe. If anyone can do it then i'd like to see his stats in one day cricket without including his matches played for the Rhinos in Zimbabwe.

I'm not denying that he's a good batsman, especially in test match cricket, but in limited overs cricket i'm not totally convinced by him.

 

[_Sam_]

Gary Ballance's stats are slightly exaggerated though from where he played domestically in Zimbabwe. If anyone can do it then i'd like to see his stats in one day cricket without including his matches played for the Rhinos in Zimbabwe.

I'm not denying that he's a good batsman, especially in test match cricket, but in limited overs cricket i'm not totally convinced by him.

Averages 46.2 excluding games for the Rhinos but including his 16 ODIs.

 

[SpitfiresKent]

And his strike rate?

 

[blockerdave]

May be, you're the one being ignorant. I don't deny that you might know more about Ballance than I do, or of his capabilities, but to say you don't care about the likes of Nasser Hussain and Michael Atherton's opinion is a bit high headed.

It just might be that you've overstated the ability of Gary Ballance. May be, you're a Yorkshireman.

You're just embarrassing yourself. Atherton mentioned Ballance being out of form, and crucially, out of position. Hussain criticised the reflex of England to throw the test number 3 in... Neither was saying Ballance is not or could not be a one day player.

In form, batting at 4/5 and left to play his natural game rather than batting under orders, Ballance's List A record suggests he can definitely play the format, score at a decent pace, and play the "finishing" role. He has 247 4s and 60 6s from 69 innings - not maybe Finch/Maxwell type stats, but decent numbers especially by "English" standards.

In form, in the right position, he makes the England XI for me. His WC was shocking, but judging him on that with no understanding of the context or his usual performance or role is ignorant and that is exactly what you did.

 

[blockerdave]

Gary Ballance's stats are slightly exaggerated though from where he played domestically in Zimbabwe. If anyone can do it then i'd like to see his stats in one day cricket without including his matches played for the Rhinos in Zimbabwe.

I'm not denying that he's a good batsman, especially in test match cricket, but in limited overs cricket i'm not totally convinced by him.

England aren't exactly overrun with quality ODI batsmen and for me an in form Ballance makes our team batting 5... Or he'd be very close to it at least.

Not seen enough of Roy, Billings, Vince etc. to make a proper assessment of them.

 

[_Sam_]

Roy is someone who I'm personally dubious/interested to see whether his technique will stand up to international cricket, particularly with the introduction he will get to faster paces. Billings I've got to admit I've never actually seen. Vince as a Hampshire fan I really like because he has those classy shots in the bag, particularly the cover drive, yet still finds it easy to accelerate when he is required to.

S/R I don't have time to find out right now but I'll try and have a look tomorrow .

 

[bigred]

Averages 46.2 excluding games for the Rhinos but including his 16 ODIs.

Still good then.

I wouldn't pick Ballance in the team to play NZ in the ODI series. Mainly because I'd prefer to see Root and Taylor in, who would play a similar type game to him. The best teams seem to have 2 openers who play in a care free way, 3 and 4 who are good in the middle overs at picking off ones and twos but can accelerate towards the end, and 5 6 and 7 who are your power hitters. He definitely wouldn't be too far away from my thoughts if I were a selector though.

 

[_Sam_]

England Test squad:
Alastair Cook (Essex) captain
James Anderson (Lancashire)
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Gary Ballance (Yorkshire)
Ian Bell (Warwickshire)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Adam Lyth (Yorkshire)
Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire)
Joe Root (Yorkshire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
James Tredwell (Kent)
Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire)
Mark Wood (Durham)


Tredwell . Not even Kents first choice FC spinner...

 

[bigred]

England Test squad:
Alastair Cook (Essex) captain
James Anderson (Lancashire)
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Gary Ballance (Yorkshire)
Ian Bell (Warwickshire)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Adam Lyth (Yorkshire)
Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire)
Joe Root (Yorkshire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
James Tredwell (Kent)
Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire)
Mark Wood (Durham)


Tredwell . Not even Kents first choice FC spinner...

I think the Tredwell pick is fair enough to be honest. We just need someone to do a job in Ali's absence. There's no quality spinner out there. Rashid's bowling on the lions tour was atrocious. He's basically in because he could bat as high as 7.

 

[_Sam_]

Even someone like Panesar would have been a much better option if you required the experience I'd have thought really, not sure how the management view his events over the last season or so though.