The fact that Patel has been picked as the 3rd spinner is very much the reason why I think it's a bad decision. I agree, that he's very unlikely to play, but at least with the pick of Ansari, you had a guy who could gain experience. Ansari is untried and has done well, so it was a decent option. But Patel? I just don't get it. I'd much rather see us taking a younger spinner or even a batsman who offers some occasional spin like Borthwick, because at least they would have the potential to be a Test player in the future.
England Team Discussion
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IceAgeComing
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Borthwick shouldn't be picked for his bowling: he doesn't bowl a great deal for Durham and when he has bowled it hasn't been anything spectacular - average of 43 having bowled half the overs of an average Championship bowler. If you could get him in as a batsmen then he could potentially play a role but England aren't exactly short of young talented batsmen at the minute...
Honestly, who else is there? You have Moeen Ali who isn't a spinner but a good batsman and should be playing above 8, Adil Rashid who looks a good bowler, is a leg spinner so wins on coolness points and is also a decent batsman - averaged 36 for Yorkshire this year with the bat and Ansari who I've heard mixed things about but again isn't an out an out bowler but an all-rounder who had a good year in the Championship. The best spinner in the Championship was Gareth Batty again but he's ancient, Kerrigan might be worth a shout but apparently they don't like him anymore after the Oval 2013 and he hasn't blown the doors off in the Championship this year, and that's about it. England's best team would be something like this from the selected squad IMO
Cook (c)
Hales
Taylor
Root
Stokes
Ali
Bairstow (w)
Rashid
Wood
Broad
Anderson/Finn
I don't think Anderson will play all three tests and he's the one of the last three that I'd be most likely to leave out: looking forward to South Africa where he'd be a lot more useful. Stokes impressed me with the bat this summer but he's probably the guy that would be most likely to drop out if you wanted Bell or Buttler in the team, you aren't going to leave out one of the seamers or go in with one spinner after all... I'm reminded of how he did in the West Indies though so he might not be particularly strong in the UAE: although as the sixth bowling option that he would be in this side he's decent. England shouldn't go into a game with three spinner at this point IMO because of how weak their spin options are, but I suppose if it was the crumbliest of pitches you could somehow squeeze Samit into that top six, again probably in place of Stokes as to not totally weaken your batting order.
Honestly, who else is there? You have Moeen Ali who isn't a spinner but a good batsman and should be playing above 8, Adil Rashid who looks a good bowler, is a leg spinner so wins on coolness points and is also a decent batsman - averaged 36 for Yorkshire this year with the bat and Ansari who I've heard mixed things about but again isn't an out an out bowler but an all-rounder who had a good year in the Championship. The best spinner in the Championship was Gareth Batty again but he's ancient, Kerrigan might be worth a shout but apparently they don't like him anymore after the Oval 2013 and he hasn't blown the doors off in the Championship this year, and that's about it. England's best team would be something like this from the selected squad IMO
Cook (c)
Hales
Taylor
Root
Stokes
Ali
Bairstow (w)
Rashid
Wood
Broad
Anderson/Finn
I don't think Anderson will play all three tests and he's the one of the last three that I'd be most likely to leave out: looking forward to South Africa where he'd be a lot more useful. Stokes impressed me with the bat this summer but he's probably the guy that would be most likely to drop out if you wanted Bell or Buttler in the team, you aren't going to leave out one of the seamers or go in with one spinner after all... I'm reminded of how he did in the West Indies though so he might not be particularly strong in the UAE: although as the sixth bowling option that he would be in this side he's decent. England shouldn't go into a game with three spinner at this point IMO because of how weak their spin options are, but I suppose if it was the crumbliest of pitches you could somehow squeeze Samit into that top six, again probably in place of Stokes as to not totally weaken your batting order.
My point on Borthwick was mainly because I'm not sure what the selectors want. Ansari is that kind of grinding batsman who offers some spin, not so dissimilar to Borthwick, although obviously with a lot more bowling under his belt than Borthwick.
I'd have picked Kerrigan. Offers that left arm option and has been first choice for his team this year (we don't have many of those that are English and not ancient as you say). I just think Kerrigan still has the potential to be a useful bowler, whereas Patel doesn't for me. He's played a few Tests on turning grounds and did nothing. I appreciate Kerrigan had a tough debut, but for me he's worth another shout.
I think the side you've picked is pretty good. I just think they'll go for Bell over either Hales or Taylor (with Ali opening in the first instance.) Probably a little light looking on batting, but it'll be good to put some pressure on Ali and Stokes to score runs.
And personally I'd go with Buttler over Bairstow. I don't think either are that great against spin, but Buttler would be the better long term option for me.
I'd have picked Kerrigan. Offers that left arm option and has been first choice for his team this year (we don't have many of those that are English and not ancient as you say). I just think Kerrigan still has the potential to be a useful bowler, whereas Patel doesn't for me. He's played a few Tests on turning grounds and did nothing. I appreciate Kerrigan had a tough debut, but for me he's worth another shout.
I think the side you've picked is pretty good. I just think they'll go for Bell over either Hales or Taylor (with Ali opening in the first instance.) Probably a little light looking on batting, but it'll be good to put some pressure on Ali and Stokes to score runs.
And personally I'd go with Buttler over Bairstow. I don't think either are that great against spin, but Buttler would be the better long term option for me.
IceAgeComing
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Buttler had a shocking summer (only Lyth and Anderson averaged lower than him I believe) and that's dramatically affected my opinion of him, and honestly I wouldn't want him to immediately follow that with a tour of a place that's known to be very hard to tour. Its not like Bairstow is old and right at this moment he's the best test option IMO
And honestly with Rashid at eight you have proper batsmen down until then with Wood and Broad able to bat a bit if needed. Ideally you'd want another batsmen in somewhere but they'd have to outbat Stokes and I don't think of anyone who would at the moment - in that side Stokes is primarily a batsman who'll bowl a few overs if needed just to allow the other seamers to stay fresher for longer. I suppose that's the one good thing about England's spin options at the moment, they all can bat so if they fail with the ball then they always have an option to redeem themselves...
And honestly with Rashid at eight you have proper batsmen down until then with Wood and Broad able to bat a bit if needed. Ideally you'd want another batsmen in somewhere but they'd have to outbat Stokes and I don't think of anyone who would at the moment - in that side Stokes is primarily a batsman who'll bowl a few overs if needed just to allow the other seamers to stay fresher for longer. I suppose that's the one good thing about England's spin options at the moment, they all can bat so if they fail with the ball then they always have an option to redeem themselves...
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Dont disagree on Patel, all I'm seeing I can see the minuscule logic as to why they might have gone for Patel as replacement.
One thing we got to cognizant about is that ENGs biggest challenge on this tour won't be the overall strength of the bowling, because as you might on previous trips to UAE/India/Sri Lanka circa 2012-2013, the quicks and spinners did well. Its the batting that crumbles - so if the scenario did arise where ENG feel they got pick 3 spinners in one tests, Patel's extra batting ability could come in handy.
No doubt its a hunch/risk selection either way.
IceAceComing said:
If the recent NZ vs PAK test in Sharjah which is hosting the 3rd tests of this tour is any indication to go by, England might very well and be faced with a situation where they have to seriously consider playing 3 spinners. NZ brought Vettori out of test retirement to partner Mark Craig/Ish Sodhi just to play that test because it was such a dustbowl - 3rd Test: New Zealand v Pakistan at Sharjah, Nov 26-30, 2014 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
This is where i think Ansari was being penciled to play and why as aforementioned am seeing the small logical reasons why i think selectors picked Patel.
Also i might add, i think Finn & Wood given their natural ability to reverse swing the ball should play in all 3 tests & realistically one of Anderson/Broad should play.
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Interesting article and I agree with some points but Ireland and co should not be in a county championship, that's utter madness.
These other teams, the minnows or associates or whatever people call them should have their own, international ODI league or a 3 day test league, which then qualifies them to play a match against the leading test nations.
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please don't use the forbidden word to talk about my country, thanks!
We already have that: its called the Intercontinental Cup and the World Cricket League. All we need really is to formalise something for T20 cricket that accepts that some teams are better at that than other formats (like Oman seem to be), and perhaps bring something in for the tier-2 associates/affiliates: they had something called the Intercontinental Shield that they got rid of . The structure that allows associate teams to play each other regularly is already here and is perfectly solid (at the top level, the lower levels especially when you get to the regional leagues are very sketchy), what we really need in that regard in opportunities to play full members and that's what we are severly lacking - Scotland have literally zero scheduled matches against full members and haven't played any since the World Cup and the only one on the horizon will be if England play as they are scheduled to or if Pakistan come to Scotland instead of Ireland for some reason. That doesn't mean putting Scotland and co into the Championship, which should remain a domestic competition for England exclusively. Or abolish status all together, extend the IC and WCL to include current Test teams and let every country play International Cricket as equals!
More connected to the topic: the Championship plays way, way too many games in April and May and very little in July/August which doesn't exactly allow spinners to bowl in ideal conditions - perhaps they could make time by moving the block of One Day Cup games slightly earlier or something; I dunno... That would do a bit to help the problem anyway!
We already have that: its called the Intercontinental Cup and the World Cricket League. All we need really is to formalise something for T20 cricket that accepts that some teams are better at that than other formats (like Oman seem to be), and perhaps bring something in for the tier-2 associates/affiliates: they had something called the Intercontinental Shield that they got rid of . The structure that allows associate teams to play each other regularly is already here and is perfectly solid (at the top level, the lower levels especially when you get to the regional leagues are very sketchy), what we really need in that regard in opportunities to play full members and that's what we are severly lacking - Scotland have literally zero scheduled matches against full members and haven't played any since the World Cup and the only one on the horizon will be if England play as they are scheduled to or if Pakistan come to Scotland instead of Ireland for some reason. That doesn't mean putting Scotland and co into the Championship, which should remain a domestic competition for England exclusively. Or abolish status all together, extend the IC and WCL to include current Test teams and let every country play International Cricket as equals!
More connected to the topic: the Championship plays way, way too many games in April and May and very little in July/August which doesn't exactly allow spinners to bowl in ideal conditions - perhaps they could make time by moving the block of One Day Cup games slightly earlier or something; I dunno... That would do a bit to help the problem anyway!
Aislabie
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How in the name of Kevin O'Brien can someone with a PlanetCricket Writing Team banner not know this?
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The idea being, that when they play such matches, they have to have real world ramifications. I.e.m addition to test rankings etc.
War
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ECB considering a new one day tournament to be based in Abu Dhabi, to boost England's chances at 2019 World Cup - Telegraph
Interesting that ECB/Strauss are now considering this especially the point about releasing players for IPL - when it was one of BIGGEST reasons why ECB & KP situation went sour. [HASHTAG]#hypocrisy[/HASHTAG]
Interesting that ECB/Strauss are now considering this especially the point about releasing players for IPL - when it was one of BIGGEST reasons why ECB & KP situation went sour. [HASHTAG]#hypocrisy[/HASHTAG]
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Looks like we'll be without Stokes, Wood and Finn for the SA tour. Big blow, but I'd rather lots of injuries in the bowling department than the batting at the moment. The batting looks incredibly thin in terms of reserve players.
Prediction of squad selection (to be announced today at 10am)
1. Cook
2. Hales
3. Bell
4. Root
5. Taylor
6. Bairstow
7. Ali
8. Woakes
9. Broad
10. Plunkett
11. Anderson
12. Compton
13. Ballance
14. Buttler
15. Rashid
16. Footitt
17. Jordan
If Stokes recovers in time, then they'll probably leave out one of Footitt or Jordan.
I got a couple wrong then. Actual squad:
1. Cook
2. Hales
3. Compton
4. Root
5. Taylor
6. Bairstow
7. Ali
8. Stokes
9. Broad
10. Jordan
11. Anderson
12. Woakes
13. Ballance
14. Buttler
15. Patel
16. Footitt
Prediction of squad selection (to be announced today at 10am)
1. Cook
2. Hales
3. Bell
4. Root
5. Taylor
6. Bairstow
7. Ali
8. Woakes
9. Broad
10. Plunkett
11. Anderson
12. Compton
13. Ballance
14. Buttler
15. Rashid
16. Footitt
17. Jordan
If Stokes recovers in time, then they'll probably leave out one of Footitt or Jordan.
I got a couple wrong then. Actual squad:
1. Cook
2. Hales
3. Compton
4. Root
5. Taylor
6. Bairstow
7. Ali
8. Stokes
9. Broad
10. Jordan
11. Anderson
12. Woakes
13. Ballance
14. Buttler
15. Patel
16. Footitt
Last edited:
IceAgeComing
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Selection had a few odd things in it: no Bell, Rashid or Plunkett, Ballance is back (good imo, probably should have played in the UAE) as is Compton. Should be an interesting tour...
But Samit kept his place, so all is right with the world! To be a little serious its nice they are trying different things, although the inclusion of Samit is genuinely baffling.
But Samit kept his place, so all is right with the world! To be a little serious its nice they are trying different things, although the inclusion of Samit is genuinely baffling.
blockerdave
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well Bell had to go, and i think the feeling with Rashid is only one spinner will play, so better he goes to the Big Bash than carry drinks. I think the exclusion of Plunkett is a very poor decision, however.
