England Team Discussion

[Aislabie]

Okay, I think I've settled on my England T20 XI:

Jonny Bairstow
Dawid Malan
Moeen Ali or Will Jacks
Jos Buttler
Eoin Morgan
Ben Stokes
Liam Livingstone
David Willey
Chris Woakes or Chris Jordan
Jofra Archer or Mark Wood
Adil Rashid or Matt Parkinson

• Bairstow is at his best at the top of the order
• Malan starting tentatively is less of a relative loss if it's in the first two overs in the game
• Jos Buttler is England's most versatile T20 player; ought to bat four
• David Willey is still a better player than Sam Curran
• Liam Livingstone and Moeen Ali can coexist in the side

 

[ddrap14]

@Aislabie ready to see some of your suggested players try and make the step up?

watch someone make a double hundred or something ridiculous

 

[Jack7]

Okay, I think I've settled on my England T20 XI:

Jonny Bairstow
Dawid Malan
Moeen Ali or Will Jacks
Jos Buttler
Eoin Morgan
Ben Stokes
Liam Livingstone
David Willey
Chris Woakes or Chris Jordan
Jofra Archer or Mark Wood
Adil Rashid or Matt Parkinson

• Bairstow is at his best at the top of the order
• Malan starting tentatively is less of a relative loss if it's in the first two overs in the game
• Jos Buttler is England's most versatile T20 player; ought to bat four
• David Willey is still a better player than Sam Curran
• Liam Livingstone and Moeen Ali can coexist in the side

1. Buttler (c)(wk)
2. Roy
3. Hales
4. Bairstow
5. Ali
6. Livingstone
7. Stokes (vc)
8. Sam Curran
9. Woakes
10. Archer
11. Rashid

 

[Jack7]

Form wise it might be time to squeeze out Malan and Morgan. Captain with Buttler full strength. Vice Stokes.

 

[Aislabie]

6. Livingstone

Yeah, Livingstone clearly makes the first XI now - he's made his case loud and clear. Indeed, I'd consider ignoring his somewhat disappointing recent first-class career and pick him in the Test side.

I still don't agree with the thinking of Buttler opening when there are plenty of other openers (especially Bairstow) who can do a very similar job to him in that role, but nobody else who can match him in the middle-order. And I certainly don't think a captain-keeper-opener is a sustainable workload.

3. Hales

Of course I'd like to see that. But such is the England soap opera plot-line at the minute that his character hasn't been written back in yet.

One thing that all this discussion of possible line-ups is demonstrating very clearly though is the sheer flexibility of this England side... in white-ball cricket.

- - - - -

Possible Test XI

1. Rory Burns - The clear first-choice opener.
2. Dominic Sibley - Eh... he'll do.
3. James Vince - I just can't help myself.
4. Joe Root - Yeah
5. Ben Stokes - If he's fit he has to play.
6. Liam Livingstone - A proper Three Dimensional Cricketer™
7. Jos Buttler - Ben Foakes is still out so I guess Buttler as keeper. Although I'd certainly consider him as a number six batsman too.
8. Ollie Robinson - The 21st Century Gus Fraser
9. Mark Wood - Pretty much the last express pace bowler still fit isn't he?
10. Stuart Broad - He's big, he's bad, he's better than his dad...
11. Jimmy Anderson - Ohhhhhh Jimmy Jimmy...

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Yeah, Livingstone clearly makes the first XI now - he's made his case loud and clear. Indeed, I'd consider ignoring his somewhat disappointing recent first-class career and pick him in the Test side.

I still don't agree with the thinking of Buttler opening when there are plenty of other openers (especially Bairstow) who can do a very similar job to him in that role, but nobody else who can match him in the middle-order. And I certainly don't think a captain-keeper-opener is a sustainable workload.


Of course I'd like to see that. But such is the England soap opera plot-line at the minute that his character hasn't been written back in yet.

One thing that all this discussion of possible line-ups is demonstrating very clearly though is the sheer flexibility of this England side... in white-ball cricket.

- - - - -

Possible Test XI

1. Rory Burns - The clear first-choice opener.
2. Dominic Sibley - Eh... he'll do.
3. James Vince - I just can't help myself.
4. Joe Root - Yeah
5. Ben Stokes - If he's fit he has to play.
6. Liam Livingstone - A proper Three Dimensional Cricketer™
7. Jos Buttler - Ben Foakes is still out so I guess Buttler as keeper. Although I'd certainly consider him as a number six batsman too.
8. Ollie Robinson - The 21st Century Gus Fraser
9. Mark Wood - Pretty much the last express pace bowler still fit isn't he?
10. Stuart Broad - He's big, he's bad, he's better than his dad...
11. Jimmy Anderson - Ohhhhhh Jimmy Jimmy...

If Buttler's T20i career was reversed, that he started as an opener (53 at 150SR) and was then moved to the middle order (23.71 at 133). Would you be saying that England had made the right decision?

 

[Aislabie]

If Buttler's T20i career was reversed, that he started as an opener (53 at 150SR) and was then moved to the middle order (23.71 at 133). Would you be saying that England had made the right decision?

I think that still depends on the options. Had he arrived as an opener though, he would never have demonstrated his finishing chops and the point would be moot.

I do very much see your point though (it's irrefutable and Buttler as an opener clearly works), and there's a strong case for ODI finisher guys to be used as Twenty20 openers. However I should point out that the position where I'd have Buttler in the Twenty20 side is number four; it's the hardest place to bat in Twenty20 cricket (obligatory Kimber explanation) because of all the roles you could end up faced with, and Buttler is England's most versatile player.


England's middle order options; it looks like I may be full of shit.


England's opening options. It looks as if I am full of shit.

Fundamentally, Eoin Morgan and I have different perspectives on how resources should be used - I see it as being about getting the most out of each role in the side, and he sees it as being about getting the most out of each player in the side - and the sample sizes of T20 cricket aren't really big enough to get a comprehensive answer as to which is more effective.

However, the stats also indicate that I'm wrong on this and should have done my homework better. BUTTLER FOR OPENER.

If I stick Buttler at the top of my batting order, it is easier to fit Liam Livingstone in the side - he can be at three/four alongside Bairstow when Stokes plays. Huh... I've ended up dropping Malan.

Jason Roy
Jos Buttler
Dawid Malan - if Stokes is out of the side
Jonny Bairstow
Liam Livingstone
Eoin Morgan
Ben Stokes - may be rested according to workload
Moeen Ali

That's my revised top seven. Bowling-wise, I guess Willey or Curran, Woakes or Jordan, Archer or Wood and Rashid or Parkinson.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

I think that still depends on the options. Had he arrived as an opener though, he would never have demonstrated his finishing chops and the point would be moot.

I do very much see your point though (it's irrefutable and Buttler as an opener clearly works), and there's a strong case for ODI finisher guys to be used as Twenty20 openers. However I should point out that the position where I'd have Buttler in the Twenty20 side is number four; it's the hardest place to bat in Twenty20 cricket (obligatory Kimber explanation) because of all the roles you could end up faced with, and Buttler is England's most versatile player.

View attachment 253291
England's middle order options; it looks like I may be full of shit.

View attachment 253293
England's opening options. It looks as if I am full of shit.

Fundamentally, Eoin Morgan and I have different perspectives on how resources should be used - I see it as being about getting the most out of each role in the side, and he sees it as being about getting the most out of each player in the side - and the sample sizes of T20 cricket aren't really big enough to get a comprehensive answer as to which is more effective.

However, the stats also indicate that I'm wrong on this and should have done my homework better. BUTTLER FOR OPENER.

If I stick Buttler at the top of my batting order, it is easier to fit Liam Livingstone in the side - he can be at three/four alongside Bairstow when Stokes plays. Huh... I've ended up dropping Malan.

Jason Roy
Jos Buttler
Dawid Malan - if Stokes is out of the side
Jonny Bairstow
Liam Livingstone
Eoin Morgan
Ben Stokes - may be rested according to workload
Moeen Ali

That's my revised top seven. Bowling-wise, I guess Willey or Curran, Woakes or Jordan, Archer or Wood and Rashid or Parkinson.

Pretty much agree on that top seven. Based on Livingstone' form Malan might be under more pressure - which is unfair but not that surprising. Stokes at 3 just feels like a more exciting option and Livingstone gives you 1-2 overs of bowling and, unlike Malan, seems a viable option from 1-7.

Give Malan a middle order spot in the test side as a consolation.

Incidentally, going under the radar a bit, but Bairstow is averaging 55 at number 4 in the last two years.

 

[Yash.]

Stokes at 3 just feels like a more exciting option and Livingstone gives you 1-2 overs of bowling and, unlike Malan, seems a viable option from 1-7.

And they both run for byes.

 

[Aislabie]

Pretty much agree on that top seven

One option I would consider would be to go with three or even four spinners in the WT20. Based on that:

Jason Roy
Jos Buttler
Dawid Malan
Jonny Bairstow
Eoin Morgan
Ben Stokes
Liam Livingstone
Moeen Ali
Adil Rashid
Saqib Mahmood (why not)
Matt Parkinson

Is a decent looking side

 

[wasteyouryouth]

One option I would consider would be to go with three or even four spinners in the WT20. Based on that:

Jason Roy
Jos Buttler
Dawid Malan
Jonny Bairstow
Eoin Morgan
Ben Stokes
Liam Livingstone
Moeen Ali
Adil Rashid
Saqib Mahmood (why not)
Matt Parkinson

Is a decent looking side

There's no way Archer and Wood would not start. Unless Joe Root demands they only play the Ashes. Which won't happen.

https://wisden.com/stories/opinion/...iam-livingstone-in-their-first-choice-t20i-xi Good read this. Mentions what I thought, but didn't want to speak its name, that Morgan might be the guy to drop out.

 

[Jack7]

There's no way Archer and Wood would not start. Unless Joe Root demands they only play the Ashes. Which won't happen.

https://wisden.com/stories/opinion/...iam-livingstone-in-their-first-choice-t20i-xi Good read this. Mentions what I thought, but didn't want to speak its name, that Morgan might be the guy to drop out.

Personally don't agree with starting Wood in T20I over Archer, Woakes or Sam Curran. Considering Stokes will play he and Ali can make up the 5th bowler and Rashid the 4th. I think Archer, Woakes, SCurran, Rashid, Ali, Stokes is the most balanced attack and provides monster batting.

 

[Aislabie]

There's no way Archer and Wood would not start. Unless Joe Root demands they only play the Ashes.

Ultimately this is true, but I do only see reason in playing one at a time. Variety is definitely the name of the game in a T20 attack

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Personally don't agree with starting Wood in T20I over Archer, Woakes or Sam Curran. Considering Stokes will play he and Ali can make up the 5th bowler and Rashid the 4th. I think Archer, Woakes, SCurran, Rashid, Ali, Stokes is the most balanced attack and provides monster batting.

Mark Wood only has the best average and best strike rate of all of England's bowlers in the last three years in T20is (bowled in 10 innings).

 

[Aislabie]