ICC Champions Trophy 2013 - England & Wales

[Aalay]

Very good performance today from India. Awesome to see Dhawan getting back to back centuries and also nice to see Rohit among the runs. As I said before, Virat is looking good but just needs to get a big score to boost is confidence. Dinesh Karthik will also be delighted to have a fifty alongside his name. Bowling looked very good today. I just wish Ishant Sharma bowls like this every time. Bhuvi bowled well upfront even though there wasn't anything in the pitch. Yadav was expensive today but we still need someone like him in the side. Ashwin was bowling beautifully today and SRJ can do nothing wrong.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I think, India got away with some poor West Indies fielding and impotent bowling yesterday. MSD, made a huge tactical error yesterday, but the batsmen, with some assistance from the opposition made the total look stupid.

India, are looking good, but death bowling is a worry. I really do believe Bhuvaneshwar Kumar is a very under-rated death bowler. From what I've seen in the IPL, he seems at least on par with Yadav and Ishant Sharma.

Pakistan, continue to annoy me. Once again, a young batsman fails in an innings and the chopping and changing begins. They need to take a broom, and wipe the current lot.

Younis Khan, is often played in the middle order, and like I said in my previous posts: Cricket, has evolved. Younis Khan, needs to open. He's got the experience, the technique and most importantly, the temperament to bat there. Asas Shafiq too, has the same qualities, and the derth of batting in Pakistan means they simply need to improvise with their thinking.

If any of my Pakistani friends are listening, please file a petition to never pick Akmal (Kamran) again. I just cannot understand, how he always shows up in a big ticket tournament, and your best stroke player of the younger generation is back home warming the benches.

A food for thought to end the post: Pakistan could have any of their seemers on the bench, banned or playing walk into the Indian team. On the other hand, Pakistan would not dream of dropping the likes of Sehwag, Gambhir or Yuvraj Singh.

 

[Aalay]

I think, India got away with some poor West Indies fielding and impotent bowling yesterday. MSD, made a huge tactical error yesterday, but the batsmen, with some assistance from the opposition made the total look stupid.

I made a post yesterday and I am making one again today. Which tactical error are you talking about?

 

[Epic]

The one where Dhoni didn't do as Kushal thought.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I made a post yesterday and I am making one again today. Which tactical error are you talking about?

I think, and general cricket sense would say that Jadeja should not have been bowling at the death. He had bowled only 5 of his allocation of 10 till the 40th over. I don't think, he has the credentials to be bowling at the death. Fair play to him, I'm a fan of him myself, but he should have been bowling earlier.

The second thing is, that Ashwin didn't bowl out. Like I said earlier, I don't mind the use of Kohli, but Yadav was very evidently off the boil yesterday, and frankly in my opinion which isn't always right, I don't see the big deal about him anyway. He's a poor death bowler and I don't think he's exceptional with the new ball.

I'm not meaning to sound critical, because it would be hard to find a bigger MSD fan than me, but anyone who's been watching cricket for a while will know that this makes sense.

----------

The one where Dhoni didn't do as Kushal thought.

I'm not a fair weather fan mate. I like to call it, like I see it. Win or lose.

 

[zeustrojanstark]

Aussies are struggling to get to even 250.Very unlike them espically their dominance from 1998-2008.Aussies

 

[Aalay]

He was using Kohli to fill out the overs of Umesh Yadav because he was so expensive in his first spell. Then he brought Yadav back for Pollard just because Pollard's problem with short stuff. I couldn't see any tactical error infact I thought he captained very well.

^^ I don't know if you have seen this post of me yesterday. I did reply to your post. As you saw, he tried Ishant in the end because Ishant bowled good throughout the inning but he got hammered. Bhuvi dd bowl few overs in early 40's but he was giving it to Jadeja because Jadeja was taking wickets. He got wickets of both Narine and Rampaul so he decided to stick with him rather than going for anyone else. I felt Ashwin could have been an option with his variations but the way Sammy was hitting it, it looked very hard to control him.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

^^ I don't know if you have seen this post of me yesterday. I did reply to your post. As you saw, he tried Ishant in the end because Ishant bowled good throughout the inning but he got hammered. Bhuvi dd bowl few overs in early 40's but he was giving it to Jadeja because Jadeja was taking wickets. He got wickets of both Narine and Rampaul so he decided to stick with him rather than going for anyone else. I felt Ashwin could have been an option with his variations but the way Sammy was hitting it, it looked very hard to control him.

I don't think, at that stage bowling Ishant Sharma was wrong. You are going to travel at the death, but batsmen have a free license at the death and which is why Jadeja bowling at that stage was a tactical error. May be, MSD thought that he would be able to bundle WI out within the 45th over, which is positive but also very risky. Bhuvaneshwar Kumar, was probably a safer bet. Ashwin, who's more qualified at bowling in the power plays/penultimate overs would have been better to go to than Jadeja also, but that too in my opinion is a risk.

As for Jadeja picking wickets being the reason for him bowling? Well, Jadeja was brought into the attack in the 17th over. His first spell, was of 5 overs and in the 27th over, he was replaced by Ashwin. During this time, his over by over readings were:

Ravindra Jadeja : 5-1-10-3

The wickets he picked were: Sarwan, Samuels & Charles.

By your logic, he should have continued to bowl, as these are more accomplished batsmen than Rampaul and Narine. Also, Pollard didn't come into bat until the 33rd over, so I don't know why Kumar and Yadav were bowling at that stage and Jadeja kept for the death. It also rules out, the bowling out WI theory as Jadeja had been his best bowler and spin was the best bet on that wicket and in those conditions.

Having said all this, we're all smarter after the event. MS Dhoni is the best limited overs captain India has seen in my opinion, an exceptional cricketer to boot. But, we all make mistakes, and this to me, seemed like a critical error. The problem with the Indian media and fans is that we only react when we lose, even if we fight and play well on a given day. However, when you win, all your mistakes are made to look like excellent and well thought out strategy. :

 

[vaibhavtewatia]

I don't think, at that stage bowling Ishant Sharma was wrong. You are going to travel at the death, but batsmen have a free license at the death and which is why Jadeja bowling at that stage was a tactical error. May be, MSD thought that he would be able to bundle WI out within the 45th over, which is positive but also very risky. Bhuvaneshwar Kumar, was probably a safer bet. Ashwin, who's more qualified at bowling in the power plays/penultimate overs would have been better to go to than Jadeja also, but that too in my opinion is a risk.

It wasn't a tactical error. The situation was such. Either way they would have struggled, but Jadeja wasn't giving any room to the batsmen to free their arms.
Although I wouldn't say that either of Ashwin/Jadeja should bowl in the death, but in that case, Dhoni's call was justified. And don't take anything away from Sammy.

By your logic, he should have continued to bowl, as these are more accomplished batsmen than Rampaul and Narine. Also, Pollard didn't come into bat until the 33rd over, so I don't know why Kumar and Yadav were bowling at that stage and Jadeja kept for the death. It also rules out, the bowling out WI theory as Jadeja had been his best bowler and spin was the best bet on that wicket and in those conditions.

That was the aggressive part from Dhoni to bring in the fast bowlers when Pollard and Dwayne Bravo got in, and when Pollard is more of a hit/miss batsmen , fast bowlers were the best bet.

The only error I could have pointed out was giving the ball to Kohli.

 

[JG1995]

It looks like India dominate group b and New Zealand and England dominate group a looks like the semi finalists will be New Zealand,England,West Indies and India.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Aussies are struggling to get to even 250.Very unlike them espically their dominance from 1998-2008.Aussies

I think, Australia and Pakistan have very similar problems. They seem to manufacture fast bowlers of excellent quality, and of all kinds, but their batting is simply short of talent. Where they're different from their older more dominating sides are with their attitude.

First off, let me make it clear that the previous Australian side that you've mentioned was obviously far more talented and probably one of the best ever sides. It's hard enough to match up to that. But, what you can learn from them is the way they prepared, their attitude and their dedication.

When was the last time you heard an Indian player dropped for having an altercation at a bar? When was it last that an Indian coach suspended players for not doing their homework? The Aussies, are known to be hard fighters and ruthless cricketers. In my opinion, they just pushed this aggression a little too far.

Michael Hussey has been quoted as saying, 'I wanted to end things on my terms, rather than get dropped.' It is this mindless thinking of the selectors that makes players insecure. There's no evidence, that a person can't be super fit or an athlete even into their mid 40's. These are myths, created by the Australians and it all started with the sacking of Steve Waugh from the national ODI team. David Hussey, who's been quite consistent for them has been shown the door. Adam Gilchrist was forced out.

Also, after the appointment of Michael Clarke, some people seem to be overly favoured. I can't understand how Phil Hughes makes a test side, let alone the Australian test side. Is he close to Pup?
Nathan Lyon? Close to pup?

Lastly, the previous generation of Aussies, could afford to talk on the field, because they had the quality to back it up. It was termed as an aggressive brand of cricket, a very in your face attitude. Now, they still seem to do it, at least a majority of them, but it seems all a bit too much talk and a little too much action. Respect is very important in sport, and I think the past decade has been a poor reflection on the Australians. The board doesn't seem to respect it's older statesmen and the players never respect the opposition.

----------

It wasn't a tactical error. The situation was such. Either way they would have struggled, but Jadeja wasn't giving any room to the batsmen to free their arms.
Although I wouldn't say that either of Ashwin/Jadeja should bowl in the death, but in that case, Dhoni's call was justified. And don't take anything away from Sammy.

I'm sorry, I don't get your point? Jadeja wasn't giving room to the batsmen, bowling well, picking wickets, so why was the change needed then? I've already mentioned in my previous post that Pollard didn't come into bat until the 33rd over, while Jadeja was replaced in the 27th over. He could have, taken 3 overs out of Jadeja, leaving him with just 2. I don't see how the call is justified when you're saying yourself that neither spinner should have been bowling at the --- end of the innings?
Sammy played a good innings, but he didn't need to apply himself. His role was clear, which was to farm the strike and go all hell for leather in the last two overs. It was good batting, but one over was a tactical error and Ishant Sharma didn't help India's cause by dishing out length deliveries.

That was the aggressive part from Dhoni to bring in the fast bowlers when Pollard and Dwayne Bravo got in, and when Pollard is more of a hit/miss batsmen , fast bowlers were the best bet.

The only error I could have pointed out was giving the ball to Kohli.

As I stated earlier, Pollard was not batting when Jadeja was removed. It was both the Bravo's. Pollard only came in the 33rd over.

 

[vaibhavtewatia]

I'm sorry, I don't get your point? Jadeja wasn't giving room to the batsmen, bowling well, picking wickets, so why was the change needed then? I've already mentioned in my previous post that Pollard didn't come into bat until the 33rd over, while Jadeja was replaced in the 27th over. He could have, taken 3 overs out of Jadeja, leaving him with just 2. I don't see how the call is justified when you're saying yourself that neither spinner should have been bowling at the --- end of the innings?

You mentioned about Jadeja being bowling in the death was simply an error, I meant that the situation was such that even if Yadav would have been brought in, he would have gone for a plenty. The problem was, they did not get the last wicket out, as they should have. Roach was good in keeping out the fast bowlers pretty well.

He could have, taken 3 overs out of Jadeja, leaving him with just 2.

In that case Yadav had to bowl quite a few overs without a break!! He wasn't that great in his first spell. So Jadeja's spell had to end to maintain the balance.

As I stated earlier, Pollard was not batting when Jadeja was removed. It was both the Bravo's. Pollard only came in the 33rd over

Because this made no sense either

Also, Pollard didn't come into bat until the 33rd over, so I don't know why Kumar and Yadav were bowling at that stage and Jadeja kept for the death.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

You mentioned about Jadeja being bowling in the death was simply an error, I meant that the situation was such that even if Yadav would have been brought in, he would have gone for a plenty. The problem was, they did not get the last wicket out, as they should have. Roach was good in keeping out the fast bowlers pretty well.

In that case Yadav had to bowl quite a few overs without a break!! He wasn't that great in his first spell. So Jadeja's spell had to end to maintain the balance.



Because this made no sense either

So, what you're saying is..

1)MS Dhoni was right in replacing Jadeja with a combination of Yadav/Kumar/Ashwin in the 27th over, when the Bravo's were batting?

2)Umesh Yadav can't bowl six overs in a spell?

3)Even if Yadav was going to go for plenty in the last few overs, would he be as meat and drink as a spinner? And why just Yadav? Like I've been saying all along, Kumar bowled 2 overs in the middle, which Jadeja could have bowled, and even if he chose to bowl him in the middle, he still had 2 overs of Kumar left? So, either way, your argument does not seem to hold weight.

----------

Although I wouldn't say that either of Ashwin/Jadeja should bowl in the death

You're contradicting yourself, mate.

 

[vaibhavtewatia]

1)MS Dhoni was right in replacing Jadeja with a combination of Yadav/Kumar/Ashwin in the 27th over, when the Bravo's were batting?

2)Umesh Yadav can't bowl six overs in a spell?

Yeah!!

Even if Yadav was going to go for plenty in the last few overs, would he be as meat and drink as a spinner? And why just Yadav? Like I've been saying all along, Kumar bowled 2 overs in the middle, which Jadeja could have bowled, and even if he chose to bowl him in the middle, he still had 2 overs of Kumar left? So, either way, your argument does not seem to hold weight.

You're contradicting yourself, mate.

I'll again say I won't go for the spinners in the death!! But if you read properly, I mentioned that the situation was such! Jadeja picked twice in the death, if he hadn't , why do you think Dhoni would have continued him. Then, it would have been obviously either Kumar/ Yadav.

I agree with the third. But, was it a blunder? In all possibility you might have had Jadeja bowling in the powerplay then!! That would have been a blunder as Ashwin was bowling then too

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Yeah!!



I'll again say I won't go for the spinners in the death!! But if you read properly, I mentioned that the situation was such! Jadeja picked twice in the death, if he hadn't , why do you think Dhoni would have continued him. Then, it would have been obviously either Kumar/ Yadav.

I agree with the third. But, was it a blunder? In all possibility you might have had Jadeja bowling in the powerplay then!! That would have been a blunder as Ashwin was bowling then too

Why would Jadeja be bowling in the power play? He could have just bowled the overs Kumar & Yadav bowled in the middle. Yadav, Kumar and Ashwin had overs to spare at the end of the innings so I don't know what you're on about. You're trying to prove Jadeja was the go to bowler because he picked two wickets and saying that he shouldn't have bowling at the death? It's contradicting.

Bowling to Rampaul/Narine in the 42nd/44th over with the fear of being bowled out before 50 overs, is a different kettle of fish compared to bowling to a Darren Sammy with a free license in the end overs.

On one hand, you're saying that spinners shouldn't be bowling in the death, but you're also saying that MSD was right to have the seamers bowling the mid overs.