ICC Champions Trophy 2017

[AliB]

ROFL, So The 7th 8th and 9th number teams are so bad enough that they are thrashing the top sides all over the park?? Remember the SL match against India, That was no Luck whatsoever, It was SL's rising efforts that made it possible. Even the cricketing viewers could see it very clearly in SL tour to SA. SL would be there eventually. I believe that Top 8 sides competition is the beauty of the Cricket and upsets are icing on the cake. While a 5 teams tournament can be good as well, It won't beat the Champions Trophy Fun because Rankings and Statistics is a different ball game.

Saying that Bangladesh is better than Pakistan and SL is a similar statement that Misbah-Ul-Haq is a better captain than Imran Khan. Or Irfan Pathan is the next Wasim Akram.

Bangladesh are 6, Pak 8 and SL 7.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Do you even understand what the point of a "World" Cup is? It's supposed to be an inclusive tournament, where the lower ranked test teams and the associates get the opportunity to gain experience by playing against the top guns. It can be a breakthrough tournament for players and teams alike. Limiting a tournament like that limits the outreach of the sport, and doing it for the sake of a few teams' condescension is just snobbery plain and simple. It's like taking out people from life support to charge your smartphone.

I liked the 2007 World Cup format with 16 teams and the Super 8s. If the 8 teams are good enough to think playing the lower ranked sides is beneath them, they shouldn't have to worry about losing to them at all. The 14 team format isn't bad either, but anything shorter just hinders the sport as a whole and shouldn't be done. An 8 team Champions Trophy is great for that "swordfight" that stronger teams seem to want so badly. It's a pool where it has so far been proven that almost anyone can beat anyone (yes, surprise surprise, even outside the Top 5) and it's about as competitive of a tournament as you'll get.

First off, welcome to the board. I have read a couple of your arguments and they're good reads.

Now, hear me out.

To start off, a 'World Cup' participation allowing associates to 'participate' on a global stage will not do anything to improve their cricket. It will only improve if they play regularly against the big boys. I have seen innumerable countries come and go from 1996 onwards come and simply 'participate' in a world cup. I think our disagreement's moot point has nothing to do with our principles, but the context in which cricket is played. For example- I've never stood up for the bullying of the BCCI towards the ICC. I do believe they deserve a bigger share of the revenue, but they don't have any right to call the shots just because of their financial power. Coming back to the point I was making- Cricket in all it's glory has 3 big events. The 'Champion's Trophy' (it was abolished and now it's reinstated), The World Cup (50) and the T20 World Cup. I struggle to see 'relevance' and 'context' in these rubbish bilateral events because they simply have no eventuality. These tournaments do. I stated earlier as well that Bangladesh has been the most improved side in the world and they deserve the praise for beating NZ. But, on a stage as big as this they have lucked into a SF birth. Under no circumstances are you convincing me of the point they got against Australia.

Personally, the 2007 WC format was appalling. I am not interested in watching India vs Netherlands or any of those matches. It's a global event where every game should have a bearing on the consequence of the tournament. Also, 50 overs seems like an awful long time against the 'associates.' I think it should be a ten team competition contested in a league format. If you really want to globalise the game and get people involved then T20 cricket and it's world cup is the way to go. You can have as many teams in as many groups as you like there. If your idea of these associate teams coming to play ICC events makes you feel that it will improve their cricket then my argument is that they could have their self confidence smashed and never recover (which has happened to numerous teams since '96) but the flip side is that some teams emerge from these events and become genuine contenders (Bangladesh, Ireland and Afghanistan of late). The simple point I'm trying to make is that unless you have these guys playing the test teams 'regularly' you're not getting anywhere. The World Cup is the pinnacle of cricket and I'm not the only one who believes that only the best should compete. This is an opinion shared by many, but I understand your argument as well. I'm just trying to reach out to you to understand mine.

Lastly, at the moment there is a huge gulf between the top 5 teams and the bottom 5 teams. Sure, there have been a few upsets and it doesn't mean in anyway that I'm hinting that the underdogs don't deserve to win on those days, but the rain has no doubt played a huge part in the qualification.

 

[Rehan_24]

Bangladesh are 6, Pak 8 and SL 7.

That doesn't matter, The point was different, top 5 against the low ranking International sides. Chill

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I think a couple of members above me told you already.

I think you can read my post directed at Simon to understand me better. Also, considering how long we have known each other on the forum, you should know better about my feelings towards Pakistan if you in any way feel I'm hinting that their qualification is making me butt hurt. If you want to argue that Bangladesh deserve to qualify let me know. I have an argument ready!

 

[LiveLoveABD]

@kushal17 I am not replying you in rethorical way. But telling you and other people who think Cricket is only made for Austrlia, England, India etc.

All teams represent their nations. Bangladesh have/most likely will go to the semi's. They've beaten New Zealand fair and square and they deserve it!

Every team has it's peek and downfall. Pakistan and Sri Lanka have contributed a lot to Cricket. Don't judge teams on the basis of a tournament or recent few years.

I don't think Cricket is down to 3 teams. Again, I don't think Bangladesh deserve to be in the semis and I'm entitled to my opinion just like those that believe they deserve to are. I think Pakistan bullied us for a long time and they certainly add a flavour no one else adds to a global event just like Sri Lanka, but like I was discussing with Simon, cricket is struggling for context and for me with all these rain affected games and seeing a team like Australia go out is a bit of a bitter pill to swallow. And if you followed the Ashes or India tests, you'll know how much I cheer for Australia.

PAK and SL deserve to qualify, whoever wins that encounter. SL beat India fair and square, likewise Pakistan SA.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Firstly, unlike You, I don't lash out at a person for quoting a post that wasn't directed towards him. I don't call a team who has admittedly been the most improved team undeserving of a semi-final spot, I don't get offended by a John Cena meme.

All I did was post that meme as a joke, and You called me delusional for that? Now, You are insinuating that was just a failed try to make myself feel important here? What's wrong with You?

Well, if you're debating with 7-8 people at one time and you have 2 people calling you names, you will retaliate. @CerialKiller and you both decided to put an adjective in for me instead of actually debating which I didn't take kindly to. Again, I'm not arguing about the most improved bit, but I am about the Bangladesh qualifying bit.

To you, if I hurt you in a personal way then I apologise because it wasn't my intent to do so. Next time I will appreciate though if you reply with an argument and not an adjective.

 

[Till Valhalla]

The last 3 games showed how the bowlers are being handicapped by rules. ICC give something to the bowlers.

 

[Umair7]

Name: Jason Roy
Job: Shane Watson

FFS! Watson was 1000 times the player ROY IS!

 

[SiriusBlack]

To start off, a 'World Cup' participation allowing associates to 'participate' on a global stage will not do anything to improve their cricket.

I did read through your entire post, but you basically lost me there.

I was 8 years old, growing up in Bangladesh, when we beat India and South Africa in the World Cup. We stayed up all night to watch the games, and the very next day, we'd go outside and play like it was no one's business bc we wanted to be one of those being world beaters. Kids my age, and the age of people I played with back then, have broken through the ranks and are out there giving their heart out for the team at Mirpur and abroad. All up and coming players with immense talent and passion have started by watching those games on the TV screens. They watched the team being decimated, but they knew that that's the biggest stage that there could possibly be, and they'd be willing to do anything to get up there and be on the winning side. You say that they need to play regularly against the bigger sides, but I don't see any of them offering tours or going on tours on a regular basis. That stage is the only place where they can cause an "upset" and grab the world's attention to even get those games in the first place. Shunning or segregating the lower ranked teams is nothing but a glorified caste system, where they aren't given the opportunity to improve and be one of the stronger teams. I also don't like how you're offering them the T20 tournament as some kind of a gift given out of sheer mercy. It's that snobbish attitude again that says "I don't have much time for you, so I'll give you five minutes to impress me". Come. On. T20 is a shortened, heavily commercialized version of the game which will hardly help development in the long run despite seeing some short term advances. If you want to see real development, you want to think long term first and foremost, before you throw in some short term boosts here and there.

And, if you feel like it's beneath you to watch an India vs Netherlands game on TV, guess what? No one cares. By all means, go about your day's work, make someone smile, and get some sleep. Literally no one will miss you if you choose not to watch the game. But to the passionate Dutch cricket fans, that match will mean the world, and I feel like they should be given that opportunity.

 

[swacker]

Cricket in all it's glory has 3 big events. The 'Champion's Trophy' (it was abolished and now it's reinstated), The World Cup (50) and the T20 World Cup.

Thanks for the info. I kinda lost how many they were.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I did read through your entire post, but you basically lost me there.

I was 8 years old, growing up in Bangladesh, when we beat India and South Africa in the World Cup. We stayed up all night to watch the games, and the very next day, we'd go outside and play like it was no one's business bc we wanted to be one of those being world beaters. Kids my age, and the age of people I played with back then, have broken through the ranks and are out there giving their heart out for the team at Mirpur and abroad. All up and coming players with immense talent and passion have started by watching those games on the TV screens. They watched the team being decimated, but they knew that that's the biggest stage that there could possibly be, and they'd be willing to do anything to get up there and be on the winning side. You say that they need to play regularly against the bigger sides, but I don't see any of them offering tours or going on tours on a regular basis. That stage is the only place where they can cause an "upset" and grab the world's attention to even get those games in the first place. Shunning or segregating the lower ranked teams is nothing but a glorified caste system, where they aren't given the opportunity to improve and be one of the stronger teams. I also don't like how you're offering them the T20 tournament as some kind of a gift given out of sheer mercy. It's that snobbish attitude again that says "I don't have much time for you, so I'll give you five minutes to impress me". Come. On. T20 is a shortened, heavily commercialized version of the game which will hardly help development in the long run despite seeing some short term advances. If you want to see real development, you want to think long term first and foremost, before you throw in some short term boosts here and there.

And, if you feel like it's beneath you to watch an India vs Netherlands game on TV, guess what? No one cares. By all means, go about your day's work, make someone smile, and get some sleep. Literally no one will miss you if you choose not to watch the game. But to the passionate Dutch cricket fans, that match will mean the world, and I feel like they should be given that opportunity.

I guess you don't quite want to understand. No matter. By your logic every nation that wants to play cricket should be given test status because of their 'passion.' That way there will be no caste system and it sounds incredibly logical to give fans uneventful matches in a sport struggling for context more often than not.

We're done here.

 

[Villain]

Golden!

 

[SiriusBlack]

I guess you don't quite want to understand. No matter. By your logic every nation that wants to play cricket should be given test status because of their 'passion.' That way there will be no caste system and it sounds incredibly logical to give fans uneventful matches in a sport struggling for context more often than not.

We're done here.

I was under the impression that you wanted to debate, so I responded to your argument. I fully understand your argument, I just don't agree with it and neither do a lot of others here, clearly. Oh, and I said everyone should have an opportunity. You're saying that I said everyone should be granted the highest privilege. Subtle difference you're missing out on there. But by all means, we can be done. I'm sorry you couldn't keep going.

 

[aditya123]

Horrible team selection by India. Bowling was the issue in the last game and yet we drop Unesh who has been in fine bowling form and retain Pandya who is a weaklink. This is the weakest possible team combination we could've fielded in this CT. Bmrah is not a wicket taker. We needed one of Shami or yadav here. Guys like Qdk will score runs for fun against this lineup. Game lost before the toss here. Have a safe flight home, team India. Selection that smells of fear.

 

[Bigby Wolf]

Ashwin in for Umesh.Certainly a fast bowler short imo,i reckon a 400+ score here today by SA with the big names reaching the three figure mark.