India in the West Indies

[SaiSrini]

Losing to this West Indies side is Unacceptable for a team labelled one of the best ODI outfits. Same old story, take them (Indian Team) out of the Sub-continent and they become a shadow of their former selves.




WTF has Agarkar ever done in Tests to be so Shocked. I would have been shocked if he had been selected.



Of course, you are in for a much better time, we happen to be one of the worst "tourists", last time we won outside the sub-continent was when most posters on this board weren't even born.




Screw Zaheer, Balaji, Pathan, Munaf Patel, and VRV. Don't see anybody become the next Michael Holding or Marshall, or even a Second-Tier fast bowler like Darren Gough or Merv Hughes.

Anyone can call me stupid if I am as critical of you abt Indian cricket! No need to become a Micheal Holding or a Malcolm Marshall. All we need are bowlers who can consistently pick up wickets and place India in the best position to win matches!

WTF? There is something called "form" and there is something called "experience". when you have done well in a country in one form of the game, there is a strong possibility that the form can extend to the other form of the game in the same country! Thats why people are surprised by the exclusion of Agarkar. He has done "supremely" well in this ODI series and by the basis of it, deserves a retainship for the tests to follow!

Yes, I should be critical of the team when they lose like this, but we change our mind so easily and suddenly we put the team over the top when they start winning. We have only lost a single series after winning 3 ODI series and drawing 2 (SA and "Pak at Abu Dhabi"). I too felt the conditions outside the subcontinent might be a factor, but what is the change here? The wickets are the same old "slow" ones where the ball keeps low and the spinners get lot of bite and turn, the weather at the time of the year is hot and humid (though not as hot, humid and dusty as the subcontinent).

 

[surendar]

I love that man. You're 100% right! I agree with you! People in India are crazy about Pathan and saying that he's next Akram. But I swear that kid isn't even a better bowler than Bravo. Pathan is an off spinner in my opinion. He got nothing special. He can't bowl with pace, doesn't get much bounce and nothing special. He was good when he first came but now he's like one of the worst bowler in my opinion. He sucks! Anybody could smack the **** out of Pathan. He's only good on green pitches as any other fast bowler.

First of all mate,just remember,there is nothing to do with the pace yestrday...slow ones did the trick!!!!!!

Secondly, Pathan -- Offspinner:cool: ..its a great joke!!!!

Moreover Bravo did tricks with the slow ball!!!! One shud appreciate Bravo for his perfection in slow ball...Any small errors wud have made the ball to disappear!!!

Pathan is a talented bowler!!! Remember the Pakistan series mate in pakistan...Its not a green pitch!!!! He took Youhana in almost every match!!!!
He has done well so for....developing allrounder!!!!

If WI could do a lot with slow ones,then why the indian bowlers were not able to do any tricks with the slow balls????????

 

[SaiSrini]

To take a positive out of this for India is that it's better to lose and learn your lessons now then to lose in a years time when the WC is held. Congratulations to West Indies, they have performed unbelievabley well and have shown to the world that they will be the darkhorses in the WC and its good to see all players in the team firing. Perhaps this could be the revival of the great Windies team which wasn't present in the last decade. People are really being too harsh on India by saying this is unacceptable by a side to lose to West Indies. West Indies may be ranked 8th in the World, but they were the team that won the Champions Trophy right? This West Indies team looks much more convincing with Lara in charge and he also needs to be applauded for his captaincy.
I would back India to win the test series though with the depth they have and really the Windies bowlers are much more suited to the ODI's. The batsman's for the Windies have to do a masssive job to clinch the test series.

P.S Loved that Lara over off Harbajan where he smashed the 2 fours and a 6

Yep. That can surely be taken as a positive. And some minor positives like Kaif's good run outside the subcontinent, Yuvraj's continuing purple patch (but like the team, he is also due to catch up with the law of averages). But we have more negatives from this series like Raina, Pathan and Dhoni's failures, Powar's inability to re-create the bowling form from the subcontinent, Sehwag's continuing patchy form, Dravid's idea to open the innings and his non reluctance to include Uthappa even after having him in the team, etc.

First of all mate,just remember,there is nothing to do with the pace yestrday...slow ones did the trick!!!!!!

Secondly, Pathan -- Offspinner:cool: ..its a great joke!!!!

Moreover Bravo did tricks with the slow ball!!!! One shud appreciate Bravo for his perfection in slow ball...Any small errors wud have made the ball to disappear!!!

Pathan is a talented bowler!!! Remember the Pakistan series mate in pakistan...Its not a green pitch!!!! He took Youhana in almost every match!!!!
He has done well so for....developing allrounder!!!!

If WI could do a lot with slow ones,then why the indian bowlers were not able to do any tricks with the slow balls????????

Pathan is the best in our team when it comes to using slower deliveries. but I feel his confidence is bit of a low at the moment. After the battering he has got, he is really low on confidence now. His batting too isnt doing him any favors!

Calling Pathan an off spinner might not be a good idea, but he seriously needs more pace to be an opening bowler. He lacks serious pace, and whatever Chappell says, his pace needs to be increased for him to be a better opening bowler!

 

[cricket_lover]

Firstly, its the media who labelled Indian team as the "best" ODI side. Mind you, India have played in the subcontinent for the past 12 months.

Its a learning experience for the team.

Screw Zaheer, Balaji, Pathan, Munaf Patel, and VRV. Don't see anybody become the next Michael Holding or Marshall, or even a Second-Tier fast bowler like Darren Gough or Merv Hughes.

may be then you should.

India never had great pacemen, and atleast an effort is being made to get some.

Its the attitude of Indian selectors and the coach that irks me. What if the coach does not like some players? He's not running the team. Not always will you be respected or liked by others.

Its high time the public think about this. Its happening everywhere in India.

Raina at no.3 was the biggest blunder in batting today. There were two options. Send Kaif at no.3 or Pathan/Dhoni to get the momentum going. Raina is neither a defensive player nor very aggressive. He's a young chap, and you will need a experienced player at no.3.

If so interested, open with him. Not no.3.

Regarding test matches, you will need bowlers who can take big wickets. I don't think India, barring Kumble and Bhajji, have such bowlers. Pathan can be dangerous on sportive wickets but over all, he'll need to improve in this variations, and more importantly PACE.

India should pick a leaf or two from Aussie plans. There are much better bowlers in their counties who are ready to play at the international level. But they did not choose all young guys for the squad, instead they are picking one bowler at a time,grooming him, and getting him ready to play at the highest level.

For India though, you have MP, VRV, SS all newbies. Even Pathan is a newbie. You don't have a spearhead. Z Khan would have been the ideal option, his experience and his recent form are quite impressive. Yes, he has not proved to be the best in test matches, but his average in low 30's is quite good for a player who plays mostly in sub-continent.

He was always impressive against Australia, in NZ, in England, so why don't they choose him?

Same goes with batting, and even the spin department. What were the selectors thinking? Powar will fetch India 5-wicket hauls? and win the matches for India?

He's more like a supporting bowler, and only for ODI's.

You don't want to be in a position where the team requires him to bat as well. You've got big names up there. Its their job. The bowling will do theirs.

Like people here mentioned earlier, you want a stable line-up. India shuffles a lot, and that's been their main problem. No batsmen knows when he's going to the middle. It keeps changing, match by match.

Coming back to this ODI series, i think WI deserved to win, they played the best cricket, and i hope this gives us an idea on how the WC will be next year.

I hope it is as exciting and close as the last few series are.

 

[surendar]

Calling Pathan an off spinner might not be a good idea, but he seriously needs more pace to be an opening bowler. He lacks serious pace, and whatever Chappell says, his pace needs to be increased for him to be a better opening bowler!

lol.... i didnt call him like that ... it was my reply to someone who called him like that!!!!

Regarding Pathan's pace...at the time of debut..he was bowling around 145 but gradually decresed with time due to injuries!!!! This happens to every indian fast bowlers.....

But i dont believe in these speeds actually!!!!
An ideal good bowler is the one who bowls the best line and length!!!!

An best example for this is Glen Mcgrath and Shaun Pollock who genrally bowls around 130!!!!
They are the more difficult bowlers to face than lees and akthars....

So Pathan is in developing phase...i hope he will be the one of the greatest allrounders like flintoff and Pollock one day in future...

 

[sohum]

We may go on and on about our bowlers, but it is the batsmen who have been at fault the whole series. 217 was not even slightly close to an acceptable total on this pitch. What were India doing fending the medium pacers and spinners during the powerplays? What you sow is what you will reap. If you sit down and allow bowlers to dominate you, you will get dominated. Lara and Gayle and Bravo at no stage allowed the bowlers to get on top of them. Sehwag is that type of player, except his average stay at the crease is less than 20 minutes.

For the tests, India are in a better position. I don't think West Indies will be able to translate their ODI momentum into the test matches. Ian Bradshaw and Corey Collymore are two players who probably won't play (they haven't played in the past). That leaves Edwards (who exhibited good form today) and Taylor, and perhaps they will pick an old pacer from their ranks. Bravo won't be as deadly because batsmen aren't looking to score during tests, that much, so his slower balls won't be as effective.

From the batting point of view, it is again Gayle, Sarwan, Lara and Chanderpaul who are the biguns. Gayle, for me, is still a hit-and-miss (less than Sehwag, though). Lara will be supreme and Chanderpaul should be pretty consistent. Sarwan hasn't got big centuries, has he? Bravo would be less effective, I would think, since he is an attacking player.

We will have Jaffer back in the line-up, so at least one side of the opening partnership should be somewhat stable. Dravid at #3 is much more conventional for him and Laxman will definitely only add to the team. I think Kaif is in a position to take over Sachin's spot in the Test XI, given his (slow) performances in the ODI series, so far. Kumble should also be useful, as he will get bounce and pace from the pitch. India should just go out on Sunday and play free flowingly, and hopefully beat the Windies by a big margin.

 

[puddleduck]

It seems I pre-empted some of the knee-jerking Sohummisra in my post 3 pages back

I agree with you that India should still be favourites for the test series.

 

[aditya123]

Good win for the Windies.
Good for cricket if u look at the bigger picture and not just the Indian viewpoint,

Yet again, we`re seeing some foolish reactions from Indian fans(not just the ones on this forum) .
We are still a very good ODI side.
As pudleuck put it, it is good for India that the win loss come in some irrelevant ODI series (with respect to the world cup) and is a much neded wakeup call as well.
This will get us really charged up again and I don`t expect a certain Mr.Chappel to take this lightly as well.

Iam not, in any way justifying the performance of our side but we can allow them one defeat in 8 months !!
I know we`ve set high standards for ourselves but one defeat in 8 months after 3 series wins( SRL,PAK,ENG) and 2 drawn series(SA,PAK) .

You`ll see a different India in the rest of the tour and the ODIs in the USA and Canada.

And from the West Indian fan `s view point, they`ve beaten a side who has been almost unbeatable in ODI cricket in recent times.
It is a huge achievement for a side who`ve been down in the dumps all this while.

Wow! West Indies beating India like this could be a turning point in their game, atleast I hope it is. So much for India being the best new ODI side. Even I was starting to believe that.

every dog has his day !
I can see many Sri Lankans , Pakistanis and Englishmen being happy after this Windies victory and I can understand that after the thrashing the`yve received from India in recent times !!

Losing to this West Indies side is Unacceptable for a team labelled one of the best ODI outfits. Same old story, take them (Indian Team) out of the Sub-continent and they become a shadow of their former selves.

WTF has Agarkar ever done in Tests to be so Shocked. I would have been shocked if he had been selected.

Of course, you are in for a much better time, we happen to be one of the worst "tourists", last time we won outside the sub-continent was when most posters on this board weren't even born.

Screw Zaheer, Balaji, Pathan, Munaf Patel, and VRV. Don't see anybody become the next Michael Holding or Marshall, or even a Second-Tier fast bowler like Darren Gough or Merv Hughes.

You`re being too harsh, mate.
AS I said before it is better to get your mistakes spotted out in an irrelevant series like this than to be out of depth at the world cup.
Now, we`ve know our mistakes and will surely improve in our next series.

And, these pitches are not much different to the ones back at home.
Pakistani pitches were faster than these.
WE don`t need an holding or a Marshall to win us matches.
I don`t see an Holding or a Marshall in current cricket either (they are nce in a generation)
The bowlers we have are quite adequate to fetch us ODI wins consistently.

YAY WEST INDIES.

Whats wrong India, many were saying and thinking (including me) that you may of been the best ODI side going around. Looks like your out of that frame now until you can sort it out. Its not like the firt win was comfortable, that could of easily been the West Indies.

you are speaking as if we`ve lost 20 games in a row mate !!
It is not as if we`re in a big hole after this.
You are bound to lose a few games in the lad up to the world cup and we must take that in our stride.
Come World Cup 2007, we`ll be ready.

 

[gaurav_indian]

But don't forget aditya123 that the matches which India won was on the sub-continent.And now seeing their performance against WI I don't have any hope of they winning the Test Series also.Pakistan toured WI last year and they won the ODI series quite convincingly and look at Indian team they lost to a side who's ranking is no. 8.
Sehwag should be kicked his doing nothing but enjoying a place in this team bcoz of his past performance.And about Kiran More if I meet him ever in my life I'll kick his a** he is a bas***d running Indian cricket on his own.He dropped Agarkar who is doing very well and RP Singh who was doing well on Pak tour just got one match and dropped.

 

[rocklara]

Very emotional game for the Prince tomorrow, as its his final match infront of his home crowd! All guns blazing....Its gonna be a great game tomorrow...

 

[surendar]

But don't forget aditya123 that the matches which India won was on the sub-continent.And now seeing their performance against WI I don't have any hope of they winning the Test Series also.Pakistan toured WI last year and they won the ODI series quite convincingly and look at Indian team they lost to a side who's ranking is no. 8.
Sehwag should be kicked his doing nothing but enjoying a place in this team bcoz of his past performance.And about Kiran More if I meet him ever in my life I'll kick his a** he is a bas***d running Indian cricket on his own.He dropped Agarkar who is doing very well and RP Singh who was doing well on Pak tour just got one match and dropped.

Mate u are caring for Sehwag always...
If WI bowlers can do trick with the slow balls then wht were Indian bowlers doing......???????????????
I will tell u again and again... Sehwag is an talented guy.... still a nightmare for the bowlers.....
RPSingh has to learn a lot yet...he is giving too much width on off side.....

I agree with u for dropping Agarkar...He has performed well.... But Test is differnt from ODIs...it has been a long time Agarkar performed well in Tests!!!But he was doing well in ODIs regularly!!!!

 

[kuttakumar]

Now if India continues to play such non-sense in 1st test. Ganguly and if not Gambhir must be given a few chances.

 

[Gunner786]

i will never be at peace if lara retires without a odi century vs india!!

the bowling attack india has chosen for tests will be slaughtered!!
agarkar should have been picked for tests deffo

 

[viral1991]

I dont understand why some people are blaming the team for everything, one must remember the fact that most of the players in our squad have never played in the Carribean! And we didn't lose this series comprehensively, the first 3 matches were absolute nail-bitters! I am also very pleased that we lost in this series, because this is one of the best learning curves for the team for the WC!

I am sure we will win tomorrow & I hope Lara makes a ton tomorrow, a brilliant farewell for him from his home-ground!

 

[gaurav_indian]

Mate u are caring for Sehwag always...
If WI bowlers can do trick with the slow balls then wht were Indian bowlers doing......???????????????
I will tell u again and again... Sehwag is an talented guy.... still a nightmare for the bowlers.....
RPSingh has to learn a lot yet...he is giving too much width on off side.....

I agree with u for dropping Agarkar...He has performed well.... But Test is differnt from ODIs...it has been a long time Agarkar performed well in Tests!!!But he was doing well in ODIs regularly!!!!

You seems to be a big fan of Sehwag if he continue to play like this he won't be in the team next year in the WC.He thinks that he has done everything for India after playing well in the first few years and throwing his wickets by playing foolish shots in stages where the team needs him.I bet you noone likes a looser in the team.He hasn't played well from the last one year and still he is in the team.There is no consistency in his performance.And u r talking about that he is still a nightmare for the bowlers mate those days are gone now every bowler know his weaknesses.No one likes a player who is doing nothing in the team if u like u can but i won't.
Matthew Hayden who is in my knowledge is one of the best openers in ODI lost his place in the ODI team bcoz he didn't play well in 22 matches.
Steve Waugh was removed from the captaincy and ODI team in 2002 VB series after his team failed to reach the finals.
M.Bevan one of the best ODI finisher lost his place.
Where did Sehwag stand in place of these players?