India tour of West Indies Aug-Sept 2019

[LiveLoveABD]

Just went to cricinfo to verify if I was right-

Ashwin has 4 tons against WI, averages 50 against them, 58 in WI and 2 of those tons have been in WI. He has 60 wickets against them @ 21, 17 of which have been in WI @ 23! I think it's fair to say that the quality of rock and roll and alcoholism in our management has perhaps gone a level higher after the contract renewals.[DOUBLEPOST=1566505410][/DOUBLEPOST]This is not a long tour. I know Ashwin didn't finish the last two tours but this is a 2 test affair and he didn't even play in the World Cup. may be I am over analysing but I am trying to look for one good reason for this omission!!

 

[abhi_jacko]

Pant gone

We will be lucky to reach 250 here, which is going to be below par considering how much the wicket has eased out

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Delighted with Ishant's guts. Jadeja doing his thing as usual!

 

[asprin]

Our lower order needs to take a cue from Ishant. You can tell he truly values his wicket. The less said about Shami, the better. Bumrah appears to try but it doesn't look like his cup of tea.

It's for this reason that I feel a mistake was made in not selecting Ashwin. In helpful conditions I would bank on his batting and our pace bowlers are skilled enough to trouble the opposition.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Our lower order needs to take a cue from Ishant. You can tell he truly values his wicket. The less said about Shami, the better. Bumrah appears to try but it doesn't look like his cup of tea.

It's for this reason that I feel a mistake was made in not selecting Ashwin. In helpful conditions I would bank on his batting and our pace bowlers are skilled enough to trouble the opposition.

In non SENA countries, Ashwin stakes a claim in the XI just as a batsman or just as a bowler! That selection miss has nothing to do with our tail. He is simply a certain starter like Kohli, Pujara, Jadeja and Bumrah. The omission will probably not cost us, but it's up there with the brainlessness of dropping Pujara/BK in SA and Rahane. As I said, probably there is now other substances being used than just alcohol.

 

[Villain]

That was one good knock by Jadeja.

 

[Villain]

Our lower order needs to take a cue from Ishant. You can tell he truly values his wicket.

I still remember his match winning partnership with VVS at Mohali vs Australia, 2010 I guess.

 

[Bevab]

A bit surprised to see how people here feel about Ashwin's exclusion. Personally, I believe that it was a harsh but fair decision.

• The pitches in West Indies have changed drastically since the last time India toured. They are a lot more seamer friendly now and have become tougher to bat on. As a result, it makes zero sense to leave an extra pacer for Ashwin especially when they have been very impressive over the last few years. Added to that, West Indies themselves chose to go in with an all-rounder as their only spinner, choosing to omit Cornwall for a very average Cummins.
  
• This means that the only players Ashwin could have realistically replaced are Vihari or Jadeja.
  
• Now, if you were going to play a lone spinner Jadeja is easily the better option as he gives you more overs without the risk of breaking down in addition to a lot more control and quicker overs. Added to that, Jadeja has also proven to be the better option compared to Ashwin on pitches that aren't as conducive to spin as dusty ones. Added to that, Jadeja has also been very impressive in the three games he played in England and Australia. Jadeja is also a marginally better batsman (if that is a necessity for a number eight) and there is no comparison to be made in the field.
  
• The only way he plays over Vihari is if Pant bats at 6 with Jadeja at 7 and himself at 8. Personally, I don't think a second spinner is needed, even if it is someone as good as Ashwin. Four full-time bowlers are more than enough for a test match and as a spinner you need to bowl more overs to get into rhythm, which means lesser overs for your pacers in seam friendly conditions if you wanted to make full use of him. Ashwin has not been good enough to merit a spot in the top seven over the last two years either as a pure batsman, the one strength of his that I've witnessed is his ability to bat and defend for long but he failed to convert any of his starts into a significant score. It wouldn't be the worst assumption to make that his batting skills have declined a bit in pace friendly conditions along with his fitness.
  
• I don't rate Vihari very highly myself, his first class average is inflated due to his Hyderabad stint but he has impressed with the A team and deserves a chance to play; if he fulfills his potential India could have a batsman averaging in the mid to high 40s who can also bowl part-time spin. Test cricket is no place for those who wouldn't make it on the basis of one talent alone and Ashwin's role as another spinner even if he is world class is not required on a pitch like this. At best, he would be an excellent spin option useful if the pitch deteriorates rapidly or if one of the pacers have a niggle and require a break. At worst, he adds nothing of value that Vihari and Jadeja themselves would not do.

I can see arguments for both his inclusion (excellent record with bat and ball in West Indies, good form in county cricket and unplayable at his best) and exclusion from the lineup but I don't think it is as straightforward to include him as everyone here thinks. I'm happy that we seem to have moved on from him being an indispensable option overseas and to have Jadeja play as the frontline spinner with our pacers being good enough to be the primary wicket taking options.

 

[Bevab]

On another note, I'm really surprised that Iyer's name has strangely not been mentioned when discussing potential solutions for our middle order batsmen. He is the current captain of the most successful side in Ranji history and averages 50 plus at a very high strike rate. Both of these in combination are a clear indicator of a player who is a class above the rest and he is most likely to be the next captain of India in all formats if Kohli continues being the captain for the next four years. He was also very impressive in Ranji Trophy last season. It is high time that we include him in his strongest format.

 

[Aalay]

Ishant 2.0 is an excellent bowler. I have always heard from various bowling coaches about how hard Ishant has always worked on his bowling. I am happy that he is finally getting the result to match his efforts.

 

[asprin]

They are a lot more seamer friendly now and have become tougher to bat on. As a result, it makes zero sense to leave an extra pacer for Ashwin especially when they have been very impressive over the last few years.

Fair point but personally I would have him in just as a batsman. If he gets wickets, then that's an added bonus.

The only slots open are that of Ishant and Vihari. But like you, I'm pro-Vihari. I've been impressed by his show so far. He hasn't gotten a big score but has scored useful 30s-40s in low scoring games when the other batsmen have failed.

So that leaves Ishant. I would have liked Ashwin to take up his spot but given yesterday's play by Ishant, I don't think that's gonna happen in the next match too, which I believe is fair enough.

So I guess having Ashwin in the playing XI is out of question now in this series unless someone picks up an injury.

 

[Villain]

On another note, I'm really surprised that Iyer's name has strangely not been mentioned when discussing potential solutions for our middle order batsmen. He is the current captain of the most successful side in Ranji history and averages 50 plus at a very high strike rate. Both of these in combination are a clear indicator of a player who is a class above the rest and he is most likely to be the next captain of India in all formats if Kohli continues being the captain for the next four years. He was also very impressive in Ranji Trophy last season. It is high time that we include him in his strongest format.

Iyer has been exceptional, I just hope he gets a consistent run in the Indian jersey. More than likes of Pant he looks like India's future to me, his captaincy has been good too. I'm surprised he has hardly been picked in the squad till date but should finally get chances now if we want to go forward.

 

[Velocity]

Iyer has been exceptional, I just hope he gets a consistent run in the Indian jersey. More than likes of Pant he looks like India's future to me, his captaincy has been good too. I'm surprised he has hardly been picked in the squad till date but should finally get chances now if we want to go forward.

He should have really been in the WC squad, and given a real extended run before it if the selectors didn't have their heads up their ass. He'll definitely be in the next WC and even beyond that hopefully. I expect him to make waves in all three formats in the next few years possibly.

 

[Velocity]

I don't rate Vihari very highly myself, his first class average is inflated due to his Hyderabad stint but he has impressed with the A team and deserves a chance to play; if he fulfills his potential India could have a batsman averaging in the mid to high 40s who can also bowl part-time spin. Test cricket is no place for those who wouldn't make it on the basis of one talent alone and Ashwin's role as another spinner even if he is world class is not required on a pitch like this. At best, he would be an excellent spin option useful if the pitch deteriorates rapidly or if one of the pacers have a niggle and require a break. At worst, he adds nothing of value that Vihari and Jadeja themselves would not do.

Vihari has had a decent start to his test career. He had a fifty on debut in England and played a few composed innings in Australia and the guts he showed as a makeshift opener making a 8 (66) shows the grittiness of his game and he can be freeflowing too. If Rahane or Pujara get injured, he seems like an ideal candidate to replace them at their respective positions. Not only that, but he can bowl handy offbreaks which can be useful in India to give Ash and Jaddu a break between spells.

However, the same cannot be said about Rohit Sharma as a test cricketer. If he's in the XI, he firmly sticks to that #6 spot and no higher than that.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Off topic- Gary Kirsten dumped from RCB!

DUMP THAT CAPTAIN!!

I bet if Kohli is still captain of RCB once Shastri leaves the India job he will land up at RCB!