Indian Premier League - General Discussion

[Till Valhalla]

Why don't CSK just take Warner and Nadeem too while they are at it.

 

[asprin]

Why don't CSK just take Warner and Nadeem too while they are at it.

I see that your loyalty factor has kicked in

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

If I were India Cements, I would move oceans and mountains to get Williamson.

Unfortunately Sun TV wouldn't want that to happen. They would still continue to have KW somewhere near the plans. This season is a very good example of how someone like KW is crucial to a side like SRH. I think CSK should rather eye someone like DK who is a local player and have a lot of experience of playing on the Chepauk surfaces.

Also the major thing that CSK missed out this time as already mentioned by Stephen Fleming is the Chepauk surface. This side exactly doesn't have batsman who would win you matches on flat pitches as it is with turning pitches. They have batsman to anchor them to some 155-160ish scores and then their spinners come into play to blow the sides away. AFAIK CSK won 6 out of their 7 matches in Chepauk last year while they struggled to get 3 wins under their bag in away matches so the issues were already visible last year and on top of it the pandemic and shifting matches to UAE affected them a lot.

Anyone who have closely followed Raina in IPL would know about his struggles since 2018 season. Since that season he is known to get on to a slow start and eventually throw it away without much of returns. He has literally been struggling at the crease with some odd knocks in between where he actually made the difference. The major criticism is towards the approach that CSK carried in most of the matches. They clearly lacked intent and Jadhav's batting was one of the examples of that. You definitely wouldn't expect Dhoni to single-handedly win you matches which he did last year since it has been a while he has played any form of Cricket. Jadeja seemed to be one of the positives while Faf was a level above the rest of the batting order. There is also fair bit of criticism of not playing Imran Tahir and consistent persistance of Dhoni with Piyush Chawla when he had a better option in Karn Sharma. Although Sharma went expensive yesterday but I would have him in my side any day over Chawla's experience.

 

[Till Valhalla]

I see that your loyalty factor has kicked in

Its always there brother.
Hopefully the so called expert crowd here learn that SRH doesn't have players who had mysterious tweets like one team who is ahead of everyone in every manner.
If I would've believed these experts Williamson and Rahane would have been in yellow jerseys after midseason of this season

 

[Bevab]

Unfortunately Sun TV wouldn't want that to happen. They would still continue to have KW somewhere near the plans. This season is a very good example of how someone like KW is crucial to a side like SRH. I think CSK should rather eye someone like DK who is a local player and have a lot of experience of playing on the Chepauk surfaces.

Its always there brother.
Hopefully the so called expert crowd here learn that SRH doesn't have players who had mysterious tweets like one team who is ahead of everyone in every manner.
If I would've believed these experts Williamson and Rahane would have been in yellow jerseys after midseason of this season

The Williamson to CSK link is a case of 'no fire without smoke'. Nobody expected a mid-season transfer to happen though, it was something of a long-term fantasy given the obvious Fleming connection and his style being suitable for CSK. Rumours before this season were that Bayliss (an ultra-attacking coach nowadays who would pack his side with hitters completely if you leave him to that) was not too keen on Williamson in the future plans. I don't buy that Williamson was injured and hence missed out at the start of the season, he was stripped of captaincy despite being an international captain and fairly successful for Hyderabad for the very reason that in the strongest lineup on paper, he would unfortunately miss out. If Bairstow was anywhere near as good as last season, Williamson's spot in the side already looks a bit excessive and if Marsh was fit? There is no choice but for him to sit out. It is easy to say "oh we still need him, he is a fan favourite and he will always been in contention for rotating our squad and play if someone flops" when him and Bairstow are on such low wages. After the 2022 mega auction where I expect Chennai, Hyderabad, Kolkata (the McCullum connection), Rajasthan (who I expect to sack Smith after next season) and even Bangalore to go for him, he will not be so cheap anymore. Bairstow will also cost a lot more given he is one of the few English cricketers who can handle leg spin successfully. Make no mistake, Bayliss will look to take the risk and go without him and instead compensate with a hitter in that case.

As for Rahane, it was another tale of fantasy deals that fans wanted for some reason. Rahane would have fixed nothing in this lineup, he is just another anchor. I think you're reading a bit too much into the wishes of people, there is a reason why they remain fantasy wishes with no actual trades happening mid-season in reality as it is not really optimal for any franchise to let go of players after planning their squads in the auction.

 

[Bevab]

Also the major thing that CSK missed out this time as already mentioned by Stephen Fleming is the Chepauk surface. This side exactly doesn't have batsman who would win you matches on flat pitches as it is with turning pitches. They have batsman to anchor them to some 155-160ish scores and then their spinners come into play to blow the sides away. AFAIK CSK won 6 out of their 7 matches in Chepauk last year while they struggled to get 3 wins under their bag in away matches so the issues were already visible last year and on top of it the pandemic and shifting matches to UAE affected them a lot.

Anyone who have closely followed Raina in IPL would know about his struggles since 2018 season. Since that season he is known to get on to a slow start and eventually throw it away without much of returns. He has literally been struggling at the crease with some odd knocks in between where he actually made the difference. The major criticism is towards the approach that CSK carried in most of the matches. They clearly lacked intent and Jadhav's batting was one of the examples of that. You definitely wouldn't expect Dhoni to single-handedly win you matches which he did last year since it has been a while he has played any form of Cricket. Jadeja seemed to be one of the positives while Faf was a level above the rest of the batting order. There is also fair bit of criticism of not playing Imran Tahir and consistent persistance of Dhoni with Piyush Chawla when he had a better option in Karn Sharma. Although Sharma went expensive yesterday but I would have him in my side any day over Chawla's experience.

What Fleming and many of these fans on social media seem to forget about the Chepauk factor is that

• We were heavily reliant on Dhoni last season to bail us out and take us to those 160+ scores. Dhoni currently would be incapable of that, he is being dismissed far too often to even see an innings through. Our spinners at the moment are also really poor, the 'younger' Tahir would have already picked up a couple of wickets by now but had to bowl as a containing spinner versus Bangalore. Which ties into my second point of...
• Teams were simply too afraid of Chennai last season IMO. A bit like Manchester United in their final season under Ferguson when they had a thoroughly average squad yet won the title. Teams were treating Chennai with far too much respect than they deserved or played very immature cricket themselves (Delhi and Bangalore are two names that particularly come to my mind). This season, teams are far more aggressive versus Chennai and are bettering if not matching their wits and strategic nous too. The fear factor is simply gone and I don't expect Chepauk alone to bring that back. Mumbai were the only team that I feel were not afraid and they gave the best performance that I've seen at Chepauk last season.
  
• We also have the worst domestic spinners out of all teams currently in the IPL. Jadeja returning to his form from previous season would automatically make him the best spinner in this side which speaks volumes of how bad the situation is. If we prepare those sluggish tracks that spinners thrive on, most teams will return the favour by picking 2-3 spinners themselves. And I'm pretty sure that their spinners will outbowl ours. As for the batting, I think teams are starting to realize that wickets in hand is better even if you're scoring slowly over a mini collapse in UAE which has seen it's fair share of those 160-170 scores that will be the norm in Chepauk. They utilize the same strategy in Chepauk and will win if we have the same inferior quality of play offered from our side.
• The biggest question mark is of course Dhoni. His strength of the previous seasons was that he would avoid taking any sort of risk versus good bowlers and go after the ones he had a favourable match-up against. What he also did was not lose his wicket to those good bowlers. This season he has lost his wicket almost always and sometimes has struggled versus the weaker bowlers too. The worst part is that he seems to be stubborn about coming in at the phase before the death overs or in it to try and play himself in and provide a finish himself. Dhoni in the past often refused to do that when he was actually playing good, preferring to send in Jadeja who was nowhere near this good back then. Right now what he is doing seems slightly selfish as I doubt he would have sent a Kedar Jadhav in a similar situation.

 

[Bevab]

I did not want to make any post yesterday as the adrenaline was pumping and I would have let some irrationality creep into the larger scheme of things and I felt @Bevab post on the CSK deserved better.

Let us get one thing out of the way- CSK have not executed well this year. I don't think they've played awfully and I can say that because I have seen some legendary Bangalore seasons. If we are to judge them by their lofty standards then yes they have not played well and fallen into the trap of playing 'dated cricket.'

Now let me ask a few questions to you-

This "dad's army" has aged and it is well known. It was well known in 2018 and we all know the results from 18 and 19 and now. As you said, it's a point you accept in the sense that 1st, 2nd and last place are results any franchise would desperately take bar Mumbai in this leg? The same people that were jumping up and down from the last two years are now suddenly crying foul.
The thing that has irked me the most about some posts here is the crystal ball revelations. Without taking any names, statements like "oh this guy is so and so age and he should pack up!" Why? Because a few of us keyboard warriors feel so? I think 2018 was a good tight slap across the faces of people who were making a big deal about this (Sanjay Manjrekar) and an inspirational message for anyone that if your heart is in it and you work hard for it then age is just a number. You can achieve what you want. I think a tremendous amount of crap has been written about Raina without any official confirmations and he has been an equal backbone of this franchise along with MS.

My biggest point is that anyone can have a bad season. The IPL is notorious in this sense because it's like quick sand. The more you struggle in a season, the more it clenches you in. And this year has been a year of the pandemic, preparations have been all over the place, the tournament itself was in jeopardy and I feel it's okay to have a bad year for guys who have basically never had a shocker of a season. Ask an RCB fan. Too much ingratitude here pertaining to CSK. One day, India will lose to Pakistan in the World Cup. It's inevitable. We need to avoid doing what we did in the 90's i.e throw this one out, start a blame culture etc etc. Find the reason for the loss, move on and improve. I certainly cannot remember one franchise in 13-14 years that has so quickly moved on and started prepping in earnest for a new season. Gaikwad is already a fixture next year and it just shows the progressive mindset and professionalism of a well oiled mega cricket team. There is a reason someone so self involved as Jadeja was passionately gesticulating at the 'India cements' branding yesterday and not the "Jadeja" name. These guys have been running cricket teams for 50+ years. They know their sh!t.

I'll again say- With all these bubbles, covid, lack of prep I think CSK should be given more margin. People are talking about Raina bailing, MS has had a season to write off. He simply has become so humongous a name that nobody dares to snarl a finger. Again, I will only agree that this is a side that is finished when it happens agin. Not now.

I had sighted the examples of Baumgartner and Federer not because of any similarity or dissimilarity to sport. If anything, my point gets amplified because cricket is less physical than both of them and as I have said- If these old hags decide they want to win the 2021 IPL, these legends will make something of it. They might not win, but I can sure shot say they will qualify. They are all fit, they are responsible and only simply their template is extinct and no longer jaded. I can already see a decent side taking shape and I think what they desperately need are three things-

1) A dynamic foreign batsman. I have no idea why Billings was let go. May be their overseas slots were filled. I think someone like Jason Roy would be an ideal fit for example at the top with Gaikwad. If I were India Cements, I would move oceans and mountains to get Williamson.

2) What they have desperately missed is a choke bowler. A role someone like Ashwin and Harbhajan has fulfilled for years. They can find one in the domestic circuit to support the leggies.

3) One more Indian batsman of pedigree in the middle order. They could perhaps trade a Kedar Jadhav for someone like an Abdul Samad.

I will just conclude by saying that way too much rubbish has been written about a franchise that has been operating like the Aussie management and team of the 2000's and this extends beyond the glittered history of CSK. It's even before that. They have had poor seasons back then as well and this one is the first in the IPL. Early signs are that they have already understood their mistakes and are working on fixes for not just the long term but also short term future.

The current line up or rather core going into 2021 looks like-

Gaikwad
du Plessis (have a ready replacement like Roy and in case you need both then Faf can always move to 3)
Rayudu
India batsman unless Raina continues.
Dhoni
Jadeja
Curran
Chahar
Indian off spinner
Hazlewood
Tahir

You can see that they don't need any major revamp for next year. Just some things to fall in place. For 2022 yes, it will depend on what these players feel themselves too. But I don't think this side will be a pushover next year. One swallow doesn't make a summer.

Not sure if you've read my other post in the CSK thread where my lineup for next season did not have any huge overhaul.

The speculation over Raina is unfortunately distasteful, even if he wanted to pullout of the IPL because he did not feel like he could contribute he should have been given the respect and right to withdraw without so much insults thrown at him for the 'balcony' or whatever. I would extend the same respect towards Harbhajan even after his outburst on Twitter, if he was not going to be a regular in the side he has every right to pull out from travelling to a foreign country to sit on the bench in the middle of a pandemic.

Age isn't the issue for me, someone like Ross Taylor has been in the best form of his career over the last four years. The issue for me is their fitness and dedication towards the game. @SaiSrini mentioned how DK took a quick double inside the circle after coming to the crease fresh just because Watto was casually jogging to pick the ball up. It was a surreal moment to watch, there is no point blaming him because this is all he is capable of in the field. I just believe that others are using the term 'age' as a broad thing to criticize aspects such as that, the other parts of fielding, the lack of strike rotation, intent and the rot of complacency in the team instead of actually meaning 'you should retire just because you are old'. Nobody's hitting out at Gayle despite him being older than everyone in Chennai's squad because after being dropped for the first half of the campaign and not playing in the CPL too, he has no complacent feelings and is giving his best in every game (I see him run quick singles and sometimes even doubles that he barely did for West Indies in the World Cup!). Far too much of Chennai's squad was complacent because their places were never under threat due to the CSK policy of 'we back our players no matter what'.

Not sure which parts of the Chennai fanbase you've seen on social media as large swathes of this fandom is quite toxic but the sensible ones that I know were disappointed and angry not because Chennai lost their way. No, it is because they simply lacked intent or only started taking risks after the game was lost. People were irritated at seeing the same names being rotated in and out of the squad after repeated failures because they always failed to show intent and were clearly complacent. The only reason why Dhoni hasn't received more criticism than what he deserves for his poor show with the bat this season is him getting out trying these days rather than amble his way to a 30(28)* or hit out after the game is over like in the first game at Sharjah.

I would also say that Chennai has one of the most passionate but also casual and emotional fanbases in the IPL who often have no real clue about cricket and are very toxic in general. I haven't seen a player be subjected to hate from their own fans as much as Jadhav has been, maybe Negi is the only one who can compare. It is also reflected in their mentality towards their idol in Dhoni. A large part of the fanbase would rather have Dhoni make a fighting knock and Chennai lose rather than Chennai win with Dhoni not contributing. After the game versus Mumbai, I saw so many people back Dhoni with statements like 'see these youngsters are crap, this is why Thala said that they don't have spark, Thala is a great captain for a reason' and whatnot. After the Bangalore game, NONE of the ones who were bashing Gaikwad dared to even celebrate the victory or talk about the game. For the first time, my social media accounts were largely Chennai free to the extent that I wondered if there was a game on that day! That taught me a lesson in that these people only care for their idol to come and play and will stop watching the day he retires unless they find a new hero to latch onto and a lot of them have zero care for the team beyond the local attachment (which will also be conveniently forgotten like the football club's if they fail). Even if Dhoni is completely past it, he will play next season no doubt due to this reason.

I do agree that it is very promising the way they've set out to make sure the team is better prepared to tackle next season. There are no big controversies in the media over players being dropped (I do think we are lucky that someone like Harbhajan who had the potential in him for an outburst is no longer there) and the team is getting back to the business as usual mode. The only one who needs to be a bit more tactful is Dhoni in his post-match interviews, statements like the infamous spark comment or the one yesterday where he said it was difficult for the management to gauge Gaikwad just because he was introspective and not talkative or influential are just making him and the management look incompetent when they are not. Billings was let go of because of his inconsistency, the problem was that they refused to sign another overseas batsman in his place, instead preferring to opt for Curran and Hazlewood (not that it has worked out too badly). Roy wouldn't be that good on the sluggish pitches that they will inevitably prepare on Chepauk next year, someone like Lewis who likes spinners is a better bet or a Dawid Malan who can play at that 130-140 SR mark.

I still maintain that Harbhajan was extremely unlikely to play this season as I'm not sure if you read my post where I mentioned he mostly only played home games. We already have a replacement of sorts for him as the powerplay spinner in Sai Kishore who was brilliant in the SMA Trophy (was the leading wicket taker), only worry is that he bowls left-arm instead of right-arm but if Santner and Jadeja can play and operate in the same phase of the game, Sai Kishore can surely play as a powerplay spinner to choke the opposition out.

I doubt Jadhav's going to be retained by Chennai let alone any other franchise accept him and his humongous salary in exchange for anyone. I would just try to look at signing whoever impresses in domestic cricket this season, there was a TN player called Shahrukh Khan who was very handy in the Vijay Hazare Trophy as a finisher and also provided quick starts in the SMA Trophy. For some reason he went unsold (probably scouts looking at his T20 numbers and passing on him without analyzing deeper). He is someone I would look to get in and see if he can make the step up. Another option would be Rohan Kadam of Karnataka who has somehow still not been picked up by any franchise despite being the top run scorer two seasons ago! I would rather see talents like these get picked up and given chances over the likes of Jadhav.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

What Fleming and many of these fans on social media seem to forget about the Chepauk factor is that

• We were heavily reliant on Dhoni last season to bail us out and take us to those 160+ scores. Dhoni currently would be incapable of that, he is being dismissed far too often to even see an innings through. Our spinners at the moment are also really poor, the 'younger' Tahir would have already picked up a couple of wickets by now but had to bowl as a containing spinner versus Bangalore. Which ties into my second point of...
• Teams were simply too afraid of Chennai last season IMO. A bit like Manchester United in their final season under Ferguson when they had a thoroughly average squad yet won the title. Teams were treating Chennai with far too much respect than they deserved or played very immature cricket themselves (Delhi and Bangalore are two names that particularly come to my mind). This season, teams are far more aggressive versus Chennai and are bettering if not matching their wits and strategic nous too. The fear factor is simply gone and I don't expect Chepauk alone to bring that back. Mumbai were the only team that I feel were not afraid and they gave the best performance that I've seen at Chepauk last season.
  
• We also have the worst domestic spinners out of all teams currently in the IPL. Jadeja returning to his form from previous season would automatically make him the best spinner in this side which speaks volumes of how bad the situation is. If we prepare those sluggish tracks that spinners thrive on, most teams will return the favour by picking 2-3 spinners themselves. And I'm pretty sure that their spinners will outbowl ours. As for the batting, I think teams are starting to realize that wickets in hand is better even if you're scoring slowly over a mini collapse in UAE which has seen it's fair share of those 160-170 scores that will be the norm in Chepauk. They utilize the same strategy in Chepauk and will win if we have the same inferior quality of play offered from our side.
• The biggest question mark is of course Dhoni. His strength of the previous seasons was that he would avoid taking any sort of risk versus good bowlers and go after the ones he had a favourable match-up against. What he also did was not lose his wicket to those good bowlers. This season he has lost his wicket almost always and sometimes has struggled versus the weaker bowlers too. The worst part is that he seems to be stubborn about coming in at the phase before the death overs or in it to try and play himself in and provide a finish himself. Dhoni in the past often refused to do that when he was actually playing good, preferring to send in Jadeja who was nowhere near this good back then. Right now what he is doing seems slightly selfish as I doubt he would have sent a Kedar Jadhav in a similar situation.

I agree to everything what was being said, but don't you think CSK would've been more confident playing at Chepauk infront of a massive home crowd? Like some psychological factors in the side that can make them believe since they are used to those conditions they would do better which would help them boost their morale a bit. Even the sides playing them would've believed that their strong home record is a fact of their good performance which would've masked all of the issues that CSK faced.

 

[Bevab]

I agree to everything what was being said, but don't you think CSK would've been more confident playing at Chepauk infront of a massive home crowd? Like some psychological factors in the side that can make them believe since they are used to those conditions they would do better which would help them boost their morale a bit. Even the sides playing them would've believed that their strong home record is a fact of their good performance which would've masked all of the issues that CSK faced.

I must admit that I had forgotten about the impact of the fans cheering them on given the current pandemic. If crowds are allowed back in the stadiums to that extent, it will help for sure. I do think it will not be enough on it's own to power us to victories unless we come up with some fresh ideas and a slightly revamped lineup.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

I do think it will not be enough on it's own to power us to victories unless we come up with some fresh ideas and a slightly revamped lineup.

But both these things are closely related actually. For fresh ideas to come you need motivation. For any sports team or player the major source of motivation is the crowd. I have been a huge Sachin fan all throughout so I know how much of positive impact the support from the crowd would actually motivate the players to do better. When you are motivated enough and you want to strive to be better it automatically generates ideas to improve oneself.

 

[Bevab]

What on earth has happened to Rahul? He's batting with zero intent when he used to be one of the best powerplay hitters two seasons ago.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

What change of fortunes Chris Gayle has bought for KXIP. Also to think he was unsold at the auction. Brilliant! A proper T20 legend for sure.[DOUBLEPOST=1604069794][/DOUBLEPOST]

What on earth has happened to Rahul? He's batting with zero intent when he used to be one of the best powerplay hitters two seasons ago.

Pressure to qualify, pressure to captain a side and probably missing Mayank.

 

[sb7]

Kins XI Punjab new player

 

[Bevab]

Poor Gayle, really deserved that hundred. You could see the frustration in him, shows that he still really cares about performing and winning despite any accusations to the contrary.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Another moron innings from KL. Typical sterilisation of India's talented hitters. Someone needs to take that orange cap from him and shred it to pieces. This logic of "Setting a platform" is just so dated and bogus. KL's innings was rescued by Gayle and Pooran. The Pooran innings while not as valuable as Gayle's was absolutely priceless.

Someone needs to tell Maxwell to bat like he used to. That new stance is absolutely crap. He simply has decided that he's going to be a "hands" player. From being someone who could play round the dial he has severely limited his own game without becoming any more consistent.