Indian Premier League - General Discussion

[Bevab]

No, the very same players don't play well for India. Case in point MSD, who seemed to be unable to strike the ball whilst playing for India. However zfor CSK, he magically transforms into a beast.

GT- again, not happy with Hardik at 3. Let the IPL staff remain in their cosy confines.

Right Dhoni was absolute dud in international cricket in his final years.

Either you bowl him a left arm spinner/leg spinner or just bowl short and wide with pacers.

He was really struggling to get going but rather played some good defensive innings in low scoring games.

Neither of these are related to what I've suggested though and are arguments in bad faith. Dhoni for one played past his peak since 2016 for India, it was clear as day to anyone seeing it and had it been anyone else or in another country they would have been put out to pastures new with a proper succession plan in place. However we don't do that here for obvious reasons. If anything the Dhoni point the both of you have made only strengthens what I suggested earlier, CSK used him earlier in his decline to either come up early and shore up the innings/save NRR or come in to give him time to target a weaker bowler. Since his international retirement he has been reduced to mere cameos in the last two overs which is the best use of him. Kohli's India blatantly ignored the calls for everyone (including from the man himself) to bat him at four and solve two issues in one go because Dhoni's strike rotation was not as fluid as Kohli's at that point and Kohli wanted to only score off singles and doubles without risking boundaries in the middle overs unless required. They also refused to hide him down the order and rejig the lineup to compensate for that other than in very few games.

The Hardik example is also misplaced. Gujarat have built a squad that isn't rich on top order options and have lost one of their premier overseas options to injury and their rising star to it too before resorting to Hardik at three. Besides it has been the wish of Hardik himself to bat higher up and reinvent his role to enhance his versatility (and no doubt make his spot more secure in the Indian side by appealing to certain metrics). You wouldn't get the same result in the Indian team if you hired some of the brains behind these two IPL sides because they've got better options to select for those spots and can point out to Hardik that he is best served by playing in the middle order with a risk of losing his spot if he doesn't cooperate.

We've had stories of how IPL has helped players deal with pressure better on the international stage and how it has helped them in other areas and yet for some reason making use of similar benefits from the backroom part of it is a no go? Why?

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Right. Maybe this has to do with the fact that top Indian batsmen struggle against left armers. Now I saw this obsession of left armers from England as well with the likes of Sam Curran, Tymal Mills, Reece Topley, David Willey and another new pacer I forgot the name of been tried by them, sometimes multiple of these playing ahead of the of Mark Wood, Stone and all.

For the Netherlands tour England's pace attack was Luke Wood, Willey, Topley, Payne, Curran and one solitary right armer in Brydon Case. Every team wants left armers because they are statistically more effective because most batters have not faced many of them. It's rare you'll see a T20 side without one left armer and one leg/mystery spinner. In time this will change because players will face more in competitive matches, the nets and learn more from data but the left hand domination may still last a few years.

I can't remember where I read/watched it but apparently they tested batsman - by getting them to predict where bowlers would pitch the baller at the point of delivery and they could do it with right handed bowlers fairly well but not with left arm. Same reason, in the last five years or so, that more bowlers go to around the wicket earlier or from the start of a spell, because left-handers have pretty much faced right armers bowling over the wicket and it limits the dismissal chances. It's one reason why left handed batters have often been more successful, but many are less effective when a bowler goes around the wicket.

 

[Bevab]

Right. Maybe this has to do with the fact that top Indian batsmen struggle against left armers. Now I saw this obsession of left armers from England as well with the likes of Sam Curran, Tymal Mills, Reece Topley, David Willey and another new pacer I forgot the name of been tried by them, sometimes multiple of these playing ahead of the of Mark Wood, Stone and all.

@wasteyouryouth has covered it well but I do wanna point out that Stone isn't that good in white ball cricket (sadly due to injuries stunting his development for one) and he was still being picked whenever fit or in a semblance of form. Wood since his run-up change has been perhaps England's most preferred pacer across conditions and formats depending on his workload and fitness too. Willey and Curran are both all-rounders (and the latter has mental fortitude which is a rare thing and probably what made England persist with him) and Mills was more for his raw pace than anything. Topley I'd agree with but he's a quality pacer in his own right and wasn't just picked because of his left arm angle primarily, it was a bonus with him.

Contrast that with India who have played Khaleel Ahmed (before he produced tangible results) and stuck with him for a while despite being dross or Kings XI Punjab signing Dwarshius who wasn't even a regular BBL player then because of the same left arm angle (the killer stache also helped I suppose ). I do think we're unhealthily obsessed with left arm bowlers due to being dismissed by them more often than not in high profile games and it has now seeded down to the fans too.

 

[Bevab]

RCB should have done a tactical drop there, Jagadeesan was horrific whilst Roy was flying.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

@wasteyouryouth has covered it well but I do wanna point out that Stone isn't that good in white ball cricket (sadly due to injuries stunting his development for one) and he was still being picked whenever fit or in a semblance of form. Wood since his run-up change has been perhaps England's most preferred pacer across conditions and formats depending on his workload and fitness too. Willey and Curran are both all-rounders (and the latter has mental fortitude which is a rare thing and probably what made England persist with him) and Mills was more for his raw pace than anything. Topley I'd agree with but he's a quality pacer in his own right and wasn't just picked because of his left arm angle primarily, it was a bonus with him.

Contrast that with India who have played Khaleel Ahmed (before he produced tangible results) and stuck with him for a while despite being dross or Kings XI Punjab signing Dwarshius who wasn't even a regular BBL player then because of the same left arm angle (the killer stache also helped I suppose ). I do think we're unhealthily obsessed with left arm bowlers due to being dismissed by them more often than not in high profile games and it has now seeded down to the fans too.

I think there's a bit of 'romance' to the Indian and Pakistan left arm thing. Could this be next Wasim, the next Zaheer? I think with England it's that data driven advantage, no one is eagerly seeking out the next Alan Mullally.

 

[Bevab]

I think there's a bit of 'romance' to the Indian and Pakistan left arm thing. Could this be next Wasim, the next Zaheer? I think with England it's that data driven advantage, no one is eagerly seeking out the next Alan Mullally.

I promise you that when they finally picked Arshdeep, it was because they had no one else to turn to after Avesh got sick and literally couldn't bowl even if the selectors wanted to.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Rana's innings today reminds me a lot of Nasser Hussain's at the famous NatWest Lord's final. And only a clown like Shastri can call it an outstanding knock!

 

[SaiSrini]

Jagadeesan is proving that his Vijay Hazare numbers were all because it was a completely different format. He is just not cut out for T20's. He had a poor SMAT season.

Wonder why they are not opening with Venkatesh Iyer who has been in good form this season? Venkatesh was instrumental for KKR's run to the final in 2021 and when he is in good form,. why dont you make him open? KKR's decisions have been perplexing

 

[Bevab]

Jagadeesan is proving that his Vijay Hazare numbers were all because it was a completely different format. He is just not cut out for T20's. He had a poor SMAT season.

Wonder why they are not opening with Venkatesh Iyer who has been in good form this season? Venkatesh was instrumental for KKR's run to the final in 2021 and when he is in good form,. why dont you make him open? KKR's decisions have been perplexing

I'm surprised that people were expecting anything different just because of a record breaking double hundred. He may yet become a decent T20 cricketer as a domestic option but he isn't likely to be a big one. It shouldn't stop people from underrating him in the other two formats he's better at but we all know it isn't happening.

KKR are a lost case at this point unless they have a fundamental rethink of their internal structure. They've tried multiple coaches of differing styles, captains that are different enough from each other and are still stuck hoping that the same West Indian cricketers bail them out ten years later.

 

[icyman]

KKR are a lost case at this point unless they have a fundamental rethink of their internal structure. They've tried multiple coaches of differing styles, captains that are different enough from each other and are still stuck hoping that the same West Indian cricketers bail them out ten years later.

The WI players point makes complete sense. Lot of talk why they shouldn't drop either Narine or Russell. In my opinion, KKR can part ways with them. Pretty sure they won't get any picks in the next auction.

 

[Bevab]

The WI players point makes complete sense. Lot of talk why they shouldn't drop either Narine or Russell. In my opinion, KKR can part ways with them. Pretty sure they won't get any picks in the next auction.

I would drop Narine just to send a message that it’s not okay to chuck your way to nearly a million dollar deal.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

I think there's a bit of 'romance' to the Indian and Pakistan left arm thing. Could this be next Wasim, the next Zaheer? I think with England it's that data driven advantage, no one is eagerly seeking out the next Alan Mullally.

I love Zak but I think India will be able to unearth a few of the same calibre. There will never be another Wasim Akram or Shane Warne till cricket ceases to exist.

 

[Pinch hitter]

I think there's a bit of 'romance' to the Indian and Pakistan left arm thing. Could this be next Wasim, the next Zaheer? I think with England it's that data driven advantage, no one is eagerly seeking out the next Alan Mullally.

Forget Zaheer Khan, India still not able to find another Kapil Dev...

 

[Bevab]

Forget Zaheer Khan, India still not able to find another Kapil Dev...

Not for a lack of trying. He’s another one of those mavericks who are so tough to replicate.

 

[icyman]

With due respect,Zak was never threatening. Never heard people talk about Zak in the same vein as Akram ( or even Srinath). A longish career backed by a supportive captain meant he played for a few years.