Need For Speed? - What's your opinion...

[QuickFire]

Hi,

I have done a bit of research work to find out a nice and cheap (around Rs.10000 - Rs.12000) processor, motherboard and graphics card combination. I have achieved some success and found some interesting options. I thought people like me who want to upgrade their PCs for performance increase without shelling out too much of a money may be interested in knowing my thoughts. Here it goes...

Processor -> AMD Duron 1.1 GHz @ Rs.5000 (approx.)
Motherboard -> DFI AM36-EC / DFI AM35-EC / Soltek SL-75MIV

Each of them are based on VIA KM133(A) chipsets and consists of integrated sound and graphics. The graphics are enough to take care of most of the currently available games at descent frame rates. If that's not enough, there's an AGP 4X expansion slot. You can go for a good graphics card like GeForce2 MX 400 @ Rs.4000 (approx.) anytime you want. But most of the infrequent gamers will be happy with onboard option. All the motherboards mentioned above are priced @ Rs.3500 - Rs.4000 (approx.) and you get the total combination for round about Rs.8500 (without a graphics card) or Rs. 12500 (with an additional graphics card). So, let me know your thoughts on these and of course, any other combination.

Regards,
QuickFire. :P

 

[QuickFire]

Hi Atul,

I have read your posts regrading the current prices of Athlon processors and that related to the overheating issues of Athlon processors.

Please continue your search for the same and I'm doing that too. However, there's a request, please post all your future articles regarding this here. This will mean that everyone can view the posts at a single place without going through the whole forum. I think you won't mind that.

Regards,
QuickFire. :P

 

[Atul]

Sure.
Athlon Overheating: http://blc.sports-gaming.com/cgi-bin....=2;t=59

Athlon, Duron, DDR SDRAM prices: http://blc.sports-gaming.com/cgi-bin....=2;t=57

Read this article on Asus' CPU Overheating Protection,COP, a devise by which Asus claims to protect Athlon XP CPU's from burning.
http://www.asusemag.com.tw/tech/ch5/ch5-1.htm



Edited By Atul on May 12 2002 at 10:31

 

[QuickFire]

Hi,

First of all I want to thank Atul for finding such great information regarding the overheating issues of AMD processors. After reading the article at ASUS, I think that the ASUS motherboards A7M266-D, A7N266, A7V266-EX, A7S333 and A7V333 will prevent the overheating and protect other system components from damage. If this is true then its a great news indeed.

However, I wanted to know the performance difference between a Duron, Athlon and Athlon XP processors. I heard somewhere that older Athlons can't be upgraded to newer ones due to the FSB issues. Is that true? Also do you have any idea what 200 MHz FSB and 233 MHz FSB means?

Regards,
QuickFire. :P

 

[Atul]

I think all the articles I found talked about heat problem when the [uost_uid0]heatsink fan fails[/uost_uid0]. There is no mentoin of ordinary use and a good quality heat sink+fan. The Asus solution is indeed great news but the problem is that they are much costlier than MSI and Gigabyte motherboards.
The problem seems to be that while Pentium implements overheat protection on the chip itself, AMD depends on a motherboard circuit to do this. And thus motherboards incorporating them are costlier. Anyways, I haven't found any other mobo with this heat protection as yet, so for me atleast, the situation seems to be even more confusing than before because I don't wan t to go for an Asus mobo and i don't want to go for a P III either.

performance difference between a Duron, Athlon and Athlon XP

See my earlier link, http://www.geocities.com/atulybx/bench.htm and you'll see one.You can see more comparisons , just search for "Athlon / Duron/ Athlon XP benchmarks" at http://www.google.com.

older Athlons can't be upgraded to newer ones due to the FSB issues. Is that true? Also do you have any idea what 200 MHz FSB and 233 MHz FSB means

FSB or Front Side Bus is (sort of) the speed at which a processor is communicating with other components of the system like RAM etc. Whether an upgrade is possible or not depends on the motherboard you are using. The latest motherboards are those which can run both at 200 MHz FSB (for older Athlons) and at 233 (or is it 266, don't remember exactly, check it out) MHz FSB (for newer Athlon XPs and Durons).
If you visit www.amd.com you will find the motherboards that are recommended by AMD for each of their chips and also what all chips these boards support.



Edited By Atul on May 12 2002 at 13:58

 

[ritwikgames]

hi quickfire,
i can see you have done some research work,the combinations you have worked out are quite impressive and with an agp 4x slot all the latest graphics cards can be plugged into the motherboards as well.But i don't know about the Duron,the main problem is that the no. of apps optimized for p3 and p4 processors are much more than for duron/older amd processors.

 

[Anonymous]

quick-fire
those benchmarks are'nt real-world benchmarks.

its better to buy a p4 1.6a ghz(northwood)and get a good mobe like gigabyte or msi ,u can also overclock up to 2.2ghz+/-with Intel stock fan.p4 has SSE2 which is optimized to for latest programs and games,video,sound editing.

for amd u should spend RS 1500 for a good psu.

since ur case is a AT model u should buy a good ATX case.

AMD prices are costly in india .a xp1600(with cooler) in SG its 110$ which is about RS 3000

 

[QuickFire]

Hi,

I know that P4 processors are the order of the day but I am a bit reluctant to go for a P4 or any other Intel processors for a simple reason - what about upgrade ability?

All we can see for years and years that Intel never supports a single inteface for longer period of time. Let's for example take just the last two or three years. P3 supported the Socket 370, P4 (upto 1.8GHz) supported the Socket 423 and the current P4s support Socket 478. I mean what is this? I know that to provide higher processing speeds, designs have to be changed but I think this shouldn't be done as often as Intel does. On the other hand AMD Duron, Athlon and Athlon XP all support the Socket A interface. A guy who bought P4 1.6GHz just few days ago can't even think of going for P4 2.0GHz without upgrading his motherboard.

Also the Intel prices are much higher as well. I can't think of getting a faster processor with a good graphics card for Rs.12000/-

Regards,
QuickFire.



Edited By QuickFire on May 12 2002 at 18:39

 

[QuickFire]

But i don't know about the Duron,the main problem is that the no. of apps optimized for p3 and p4 processors are much more than for duron/older amd processors.

Hi ritwik,
I don't know much about application optimization etc. if supported by P3 and P4. Please let me know more on this. If that's the case then, Athlon XP are the best for Windows XP.

AMD prices are costly in india .a xp1600(with cooler) in SG its 110$ which is about RS 3000

Hi its me,
I can't understand what you mean by that line. Please clarify.

Regards,
QuickFire. :P

 

[QuickFire]

Hi,

I have recently visited some really cool hardware related websites. They have all the comparisons between AMD and Intel processors along with articles on AMD heatsink issue. You may want to visit these sites -

1. Van's Hardware Journal
2. Ace's Hardware

If you've got more, please post here.

Regards,
QuickFire.

 

[Atul]

Ok I got myself an Athlon XP finally.

Configuration first:

Athlon XP 1800+ (clk speed :- 1533 MHz) +
Asus A7V 266M (VIA KT 266 chipset) motherboard = Rs. 14500
128 MB DDR SDRAM = Rs. 1850
Microtek cabinet + PSU = Rs. 1300

Performance:
Great, even though the video card is only Asus TNT2 M64 32 MB SDRAM. So scope of improvement here. Tried Commanche 4, Medal of Honour: Allied Assault, Max Payne.

Overheating:

Motherboard has onboard Asus ASIC chip that monitors temperature directly from cpu's internal diode (Asus C.O.P. refer earlier posts). So far no need of an emergency shutdown though the cpu is indeed generating more heat than a P4, still quite within limits (~ 60 - 65 C w/o airconditioning). Using the standard heatsink fan combo that comes with Athlon box pack, so a better cooling mech will lower the temmp for sure. After using CPUIdle, average temp has come down to 47 C, but while playing games, CPUIdle is not effective (and quite rightly so) and temp reaches a max of 65 C.

 

[ritwikgames]

Atul,i know that you are a kind of hardware expert and thus i ask you this question:
I have an intel 810e motherboard which currently has 64megs of RAM.I wanted to ask how much more ram can I add into my motherboard and what will be price of say, adding a furthar 192 mb of memory{to get the total RAM to 256 megs}.I would appreciate if you could give Delhi prices but that's not necessary.

Cheers.



Edited By ritwikgames on June 20 2002 at 17:07

 

[Atul]

Check out your motherboard manual for exact info. How much RAM you can add depends on how many slots you actually have. But 2 slots are standard. Assuming that, I think you can upgrade to 512 MB SDRAM (PC100/133). It's best not to mix up 2 different RAM brands, so maybe you could consider selling your older RAM module (www.baazee.com or checkout newspaper classifieds). A 128 MB PC100 SDRAM will cost you around Rs. 1000 or so at Nehru Place.

 

[QuickFire]

Ok I got myself an Athlon XP finally.

Configuration first:

Athlon XP 1800+ (clk speed :- 1533 MHz) +  
Asus A7V 266M (VIA KT 266 chipset) motherboard = Rs. 14500
128 MB DDR SDRAM = Rs. 1850
Microtek cabinet + PSU =  Rs. 1300

Hi Atul,

Congrats on getting a completely new PC. You've got new RAM, CPU, Cabinet, MB...but the price range exceeded much beyond Rs. 10000/- which was what you wanted. Unfortunately, I don't have any extra money to spare and that's why I will have to stick with my older SDRAM modules for the time being.

I have decided to get a Gigabyte motherboard with onboard AGP and an Athlon XP 1600+ or something like that with SDRAM. Currently I have 128MB of RAM but I want to upgrade it to 1 GB (if possible!!). Do you have any idea if the 512MB SDRAM modules are available in India or not.

I wanted to ask how much more ram can I add into my motherboard and what will be price of say, adding a furthar 192 mb of memory{to get the total RAM to 256 megs}.

Hi ritwik,

I think you should go for two 256 MB SDRAM modules of course if you can afford it. If your motherboard have two slots then you can add upto 1 GB of RAM. However, I am not sure how you can find a 192 MB RAM module. Is it possible?
You alredy have one of your slots occupied by a 64 MB RAM. Now you can either go for a 128MB or 256MB (or 512MB, if available).

Thanks.. :P



Edited By QuickFire on June 21 2002 at 07:49

 

[Atul]

Thx Quickfire. (When I actully went out to purchase, I surely had 10,000 in my mind but soon things started to go out of control and I ended up robbing my dad's ATM ac).

Seriously, in my opinion, you should definately go for an Asus motherboard (rock solid stability and most imp for an Athlon, C.O.P.), one that supports both DDR RAM and SDRAM (though ideally I would recommend a board that supports DDR and only DDR). Onboard AGP is strictly noooooooooo... Onboard sound is OK. What you can do is

Asus DDR SDRAM mb
Duron 1g cpu
DDR SDRAM 128 MB
generic TNT2 16/32 MB SDRAM

That way you can always upgrade upto Athlon XP 2200+ on the same mb. Also, the true performance of an Athlon is with DDR RAM (and it's really not too costly pal...wait 1-2 months and 128 MB DDR will be down to around Rs. 1500 or so).

This configuration will cost you around 10,000 - 12,000. See the prob is if you have onboard AGP, tommorow when you want to upgrade you'll find that your mb can take new cpu but not a new vid card (when the botleneck is actually at graphics card and not cpu). It's beter to spend a bit more now than to be sorry later.