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Boring. So what if you have perfected some ?art? of ground fighting. I want to see men go toe to toe and punch for punch instead of watching some guy get bored into submission because another man is able to keep him from getting up off the ground.

You wanna watch Boxing then, you're watching the wrong sport mate. Don't have a problem with finding Jiu-Jitsu boring though, that's personal opinion; my problem stemmed from the 'little apparent technique' comment, which showcased no opinion, but the uneducated drivel I went off on.

:laugh True dat. For a "sport" that's suppose to be brutal nothing really ever happens. I was expecting to see some teeth knocked out, broken bones etc and in the clips I've ever seen you just see two guys dance around each other before someone kicks the other guy in the arse (which is hardly fighting tbh).

You can see why it's taken of in the US though, it's just two brainless morons going after each other with little apparent technique involved (unlike say boxing).

And by the way, just because I find MMA boring doesn't mean I don't understand it.

Yep. You really proved that in your 1st post on the subject.....
 
Yeah that's MMA. Little bit of kicking, little bit of punching and then bang, where on the ground for a few minutes. Boring.

I understand it perfectly well.
 
Still failing to see where you've proved that. I've read nothing that proves you know any more about MMA than any of the uneducated journalists that spout the same old crap about it being a brutal human cockfighting 'non-sport'.
 
Basically to not be as lazy and get the grades needed to get into Uni. Not started well though, gotta write 1500 words for English and Media coursework in for Monday and Tuesday that was set before the holiday :p
 
Still failing to see where you've proved that. I've read nothing that proves you know any more about MMA than any of the uneducated journalists that spout the same old crap about it being a brutal human cockfighting 'non-sport'.

Prove what? That MMA involves kicking, punching and submission moves. I'm know expert as I've never actually seen a live fight (and I don't plan to either) but every god damn video clip and preview I've ever seen has involved those three things.

From what I understand getting your opponent onto the ground is the main objective (unless you beat the ████ out of him) The whole ground thing is boring, nobody who doesn't follow it is going to know what the hell is going on during this stage.
 
Prove what? That MMA involves kicking, punching and submission moves. I'm know expert as I've never actually seen a live fight (and I don't plan to either) but every god damn video clip and preview I've ever seen has involved those three things.

From what I understand getting your opponent onto the ground is the main objective (unless you beat the ████ out of him) The whole ground thing is boring, nobody who doesn't follow it is going to know what the hell is going on during this stage.

Kicks, punches, knees, elbows, takedowns, takedown defence, clinch wrestling, dirty boxing, clinch striking, ground transitions, ground and pound, submissions and submission defence. There's alot more to MMA than kicking, punching and submissions. You've also got to factor in conditioning as well, as that plays a massive part in any fight. I'd love to see these 'clips' you keep mentioning as well, as I'm pretty sure that you've either not watched them properly, or you were in fact watching the wrong sport. You've been so far wide of the mark with every comment you've made so far. Am glad you've given up the idiotic idea that there's no apparently technique involved as well, that was one of the most hilarious criticisms of MMA I've ever read, especially when you then compared it to Boxing as well.

No, again, pure ignorance. That's not the whole idea. It's Mixed Martial Arts, not submission wrestling or Jiu Jitsu competition, that's not the main objective at all. The main objective is to win the fight, and you do that by playing to your strengths. If you're a guy with good striking you try and keep the fight on the feet and then work on your takedown defence and submission defence in case your opponent gets you to the ground. You've then got wrestlers who will look to initiate the takedown, get the opponent to the ground, move into an attacking position and then look to get a TKO victory via ground and pound. Then you've got the jiu jitsu experts who'll look to win by submission, and then the more well-rounded guys who can win a fight from any of the various positions.

If you don't know what's going on then yeah, I see why you could find Jiu Jitsu and ground techniques boring, but to anyone who knows what they're watching and understand the basic techniques it's very, very good to watch. I find it even more entertaining now that I've done a bit of training and understand how complex it is and how easy the professionals make it look.
 
Kicks, punches, knees, elbows, takedowns, takedown defence, clinch wrestling, dirty boxing, clinch striking, ground transitions, ground and pound, submissions and submission defence. There's alot more to MMA than kicking, punching and submissions. You've also got to factor in conditioning as well, as that plays a massive part in any fight. I'd love to see these 'clips' you keep mentioning as well, as I'm pretty sure that you've either not watched them properly, or you were in fact watching the wrong sport. You've been so far wide of the mark with every comment you've made so far. Am glad you've given up the idiotic idea that there's no apparently technique involved as well, that was one of the most hilarious criticisms of MMA I've ever read, especially when you then compared it to Boxing as well.

No, again, pure ignorance. That's not the whole idea. It's Mixed Martial Arts, not submission wrestling or Jiu Jitsu competition, that's not the main objective at all. The main objective is to win the fight, and you do that by playing to your strengths. If you're a guy with good striking you try and keep the fight on the feet and then work on your takedown defence and submission defence in case your opponent gets you to the ground. You've then got wrestlers who will look to initiate the takedown, get the opponent to the ground, move into an attacking position and then look to get a TKO victory via ground and pound. Then you've got the jiu jitsu experts who'll look to win by submission, and then the more well-rounded guys who can win a fight from any of the various positions.

If you don't know what's going on then yeah, I see why you could find Jiu Jitsu and ground techniques boring, but to anyone who knows what they're watching and understand the basic techniques it's very, very good to watch. I find it even more entertaining now that I've done a bit of training and understand how complex it is and how easy the professionals make it look.

Huh? That's what I was saying, from what I've seen the fighters just look to get them onto the ground and your've pretty much just said that.


Am glad you've given up the idiotic idea that there's no apparently technique involved as well, that was one of the most hilarious criticisms of MMA I've ever read, especially when you then compared it to Boxing as well.

Gee, I hope I'm reading this wrong but are you implying that MMA involves more technique?
 
Huh? That's what I was saying, from what I've seen the fighters just look to get them onto the ground and your've pretty much just said that.

No I haven't. That's not the primary objective for all fights, which is what you said. Guys with good striking will look to keep the fight standing, and a large percentage of fights will stay standing for quite some time. This is mixed martial arts though, so obviously it will go to the ground at some point in a 3 or 5 round fight. These guys are well rounded athletes, and they're all versed in striking and ground skills. The fact remains though, this isn't submission wrestling, the main objective is not to get the fight to the ground. I'd advise you actually go and watch a few fights.

Gee, I hope I'm reading this wrong but are you implying that MMA involves more technique?

Yes I am. Boxing requires a lot of technique, I know that. But MMA fighters train in boxing as well as all the other disciplines, so I don't know how you can deny the fact there's more technique involved in MMA. Freddie Roach is one of the top boxing trainers in the world, and he's been training MMA fighters like Anderson Silva, Andrei Arlovkski and Dan Hardy. So they're learning the same techniques as professional boxers, but having to also learn Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, Wrestling and then conditioning training on top of that. There's far more technique to learn in MMA. You have to train each discipline separately to get good results, so yes, there is more technique involved than in Boxing.

Your main point about MMA has been that it's just Punching, Kicking and Submissions (which I proved isn't right), but Boxing showcases less than even that. It's just punching. I don't see where you're going with this tbh. There's more technique involved in Jiu-Jitsu than in Boxing, so it's obvious there's more involved in MMA which is the fusion of all Martial Arts into 1 sport.
 
YouTube - Leo Chaput Negao MMA fight

One example of a solid boring two minutes, from 25 seconds till 2:15 (I stopped watching) these two guys just laid on the ground doing nothing (it appares to be nothing to someone who doesn't follow it).

This is some of the stuff I've seen before and it's what I was trying to say earlier.

As for Boxing having more "technique" I spose I was meant to say a more solid technique is needed to fight and actually win.
 
Nice. Some amateur MMA fight featuring nobodies, the initial takedown by the black guy was pretty sweet though. Try watching some proper MMA. Forrest Griffin vs Stephan Bonnar I, Fedor Emelianenko vs Kevin Randleman, Diego Sanchez vs Karo Parisyan, Diego Sanchez vs Clay Guida, Wanderlei Silva vs Quinton 'Rampage' Jackson (any of their 3 fights), Takanori Gomi vs Nick Diaz, Wanderlei Silva vs Mirko Cro Cop, BJ Penn vs Joe Stevenson, Dustin Hazelett vs Josh Burkman etc etc. I could go on all day listing great fights with sick finishes and some seriously good action. So much more entertaining than that amateur fight.

Hmm, care to explain that comment, instead of just posting 1 sentence? I'm pretty sure it's a load of drivel, especially considering MMA fighters are learning the same techniques as Pro Boxers, as well as all the other Martial Arts. But I'd like to see you explain precisely how Boxing requires more 'solid technique'. I'm certain that Jiu Jitsu requires far more solid technique than Boxing, you only need to pick up a Jiu Jitsu instructional book to prove that, the amount of stuff a Black Belt has to learn is incredible. Thousands and thousands of different moves, submissions, transitions, escapes and ways to control your opponent.
 
Boxing is more anaerobically and aerobically demanding due to the nature of the sport. It is much less stop/start/rest with intense periods of activity so you have to build up your anaerobic capacity to a much greater level and you also have to have greater aerobic capacity due to the endurance needed to last those 36 minutes of sustained anaerobic periods. It takes a decade of training and a load of natural talent to be an elite boxer. Unlike a certain ex WWE roid head who shot to the top of MMA after winning a couple of fights.

As for the 1000's and 1000's of moves, please :sarcasm They have 92 names for a headlock ffs.

I do need to ask though, have you ever actually done boxing before, and have you actually ever been in a proper boxing fight? You go out into a boxing ring with a sloppy technique and you will get killed, there isn't any hiding, you're not allowed to pull the guy onto the ground and work him over. Everything needs to be perfect and if you're off by even a split second it could be game over.
 
Boxing is more anaerobically and aerobically demanding due to the nature of the sport. It is much less stop/start/rest with intense periods of activity so you have to build up your anaerobic capacity to a much greater level and you also have to have greater aerobic capacity due to the endurance needed to last those 36 minutes of sustained anaerobic periods. It takes a decade of training and a load of natural talent to be an elite boxer. Unlike a certain ex WWE roid head who shot to the top of MMA after winning a couple of fights.

This stuff about conditioning would make sense if MMA was stop/start/rest, it isn't. The grappling against the cage and jiu-jitsu is very, very tiring. You're constantly working, constantly struggling for positions and if you rest for a second, your opponent can take advantage of it and transition into a better position. I know that the top tier MMA fighters work harder on their conditioning than Boxers do. I watch boxing, so I know how much conditioning it takes, and I've seen boxing conditioning work outs. They're different sports though, it's very hard to compare them. There's boxing cardio and MMA cardio, completely different things.

Guys like Forrest Griffin and Rich Franklin put their bodies through hell to get themselves in peak physical condition, because MMA is such a varied strain on the gas tank. Seriously mate, do some research, check out Rich Franklin's work-out schedule, check Forrest Griffin's work out routine. Forrest works out 12 times a week at an absolute minimum. He goes to 3 different gyms 6 days a week working full on at each, and then does extra conditioning on a Sunday. MMA fighters require a hell of a lot of conditioning, as much as boxers, possibly more so. Think you're massively under-rating the amount of cardio required in grappling. It isn't just a rest on the ground.

You've proven your ignorance once more with the comments about Lesnar as well. He was an NCAA Division 1 Wrestling champ in College, and has one of the most impressive wrestling pedigrees in all of MMA. He was training for over a year at a good MMA camp before he had his first fight, adapting his style of wrestling to Mixed Martial Arts and getting sufficient conditioning training in, as well as working on all the other disciplines. He made his debut in 2007, and his natural athleticism, strength and wrestling ability has led him to become one of the top HW's in the world in the space of 6 fights. Wrestling's a martial art, and Brock's been training in wrestling since he was in High School, and he's just had to adapt that to MMA, proves nothing as far as Boxing being a more technically superior sport.

As for the 1000's and 1000's of moves, please :sarcasm They have 92 names for a headlock ffs.

Another well researched retort from Howsie. I would love to see you say the same things to Demian Maia, Ronaldo Souza, Roger Gracie, Saulo Ribeiro, Xande Ribeiro, BJ Penn, etc etc etc. They'd soon show you how much technique is required when you're tapping out or being choked out in a matter of seconds.

I do need to ask though, have you ever actually done boxing before, and have you actually ever been in a proper boxing fight? You go out into a boxing ring with a sloppy technique and you will get killed, there isn't any hiding, you're not allowed to pull the guy onto the ground and work him over. Everything needs to be perfect and if you're off by even a split second it could be game over.

No I haven't. But as I mentioned before, I know how much effort is required for boxing, I know how much training is required. You quite clearly don't know how much energy is required to go from a stand-up boxing/kickboxing/muay-thai exchange, into a wrestling match into a Jiu Jitsu battle.

The same things apply to MMA as well btw. You can't go into Professional MMA with sloppy technique. If you've got terrible Takedown Defence, or are atrocious on the ground, you'll get found out in an instant. You need to put the work in, if your conditioning is off you'll gas and be unable to defend yourself. With the smaller MMA gloves, there's even less margin for error as well, you get hit by a big punch from a strong guy in those gloves and you'll be out cold. Boxing gloves have far more padding, do far less damage and give the recipient of a punch far less margin for error.
 
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This stuff about conditioning would make sense if MMA was stop/start/rest, it isn't. The grappling against the cage and jiu-jitsu is very, very tiring. You're constantly working, constantly struggling for positions and if you rest for a second, your opponent can take advantage of it and transition into a better position. I know that the top tier MMA fighters work harder on their conditioning than Boxers do. I watch boxing, so I know how much conditioning it takes, and I've seen boxing conditioning work outs, and these guys have nothing on the top conditioned Mixed Martial Artists.

Wouldn't mind some prove tbh because I doubt that very much. I've never really seen a boxer with a bad physique but seen plenty of MMA fighters that are unconditioned and flabby.

The same things apply to MMA as well btw. You can't go into Professional MMA with sloppy technique. If you've got terrible Takedown Defence, or are atrocious on the ground, you'll get found out in an instant. You need to put the work in, if your conditioning is off you'll gas and be unable to defend yourself. With the smaller MMA gloves, there's even less margin for error as well, you get hit by a big punch from a strong guy in those gloves and you'll be out cold. Boxing gloves have far more padding, do far less damage and give the recipient of a punch far less margin for error.

Yes, tell that to the 100's of people with broken jaws and brain damage that have resulted from being punched with these padded gloves :sarcasm

Put it this way, would a MMA fighter beat a pro boxer in a boxing bout, off course not. They're pretty much decathlon athletes tbh.

It would be like me saying Usain Boult or any 100M sprinter needs a more defined and solid technique to win his event when comparing them to a decathlete who like a MMA fighter has more then one specialty.
 

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